Grand Theft Auto V Becomes Gaming Evolved Game Title with Contact Hardening Shadows

[loccothan]

Grand Theft Auto V Becomes Gaming Evolved Game Title with Contact Hardening Shadows

Read more at http://www.legitreviews.com/grand-t...-hardening-shadows_161626#YChV7UFfI4cMRLHM.99

And don't wage H/W vendor wars in my thread
THX

 

[Silverforce11]

It's both GE and GW, Rockstar work with both developers, not sign exclusive to either.

Good dev.

 

[ViRGE]

The inclusion of CHS when you already have PCSS is a bit odd though. All things considered, PCSS is a more accurate shadowing system. Though since it's GameWorks, maybe the performance sucks wind on AMD GPUs?

 

[Intel FX Master]

The inclusion of CHS when you already have PCSS is a bit odd though. All things considered, PCSS is a more accurate shadowing system. Though since it's GameWorks, maybe the performance sucks wind on AMD GPUs?

....


Nothing constructive
-Subyman

 

[Silverforce11]

The inclusion of CHS when you already have PCSS is a bit odd though. All things considered, PCSS is a more accurate shadowing system. Though since it's GameWorks, maybe the performance sucks wind on AMD GPUs?

Don't know how PCSS performs on AMD, but Computerbase.de tested CHS on NV and the performance hit was less than PCSS on NV.

CB also tried to test PCSS on AMD to see the performance hit, but they said their in-game level crashed when they tried it so they can't produce any results. Other review sites test with PCSS in the built in benchmark, typically we see worse results on AMD, with R290 falling down towards the 770 level.

For comparisons, they thought CHS was better at producing more accurate shadows, but sharper, so its a matter of taste.

 

[Intel FX Master]

It's both GE and GW, Rockstar work with both developers, not sign exclusive to either.

Good dev.

I think its just a game and R* is letting anyone make improvements to the game. After all it about the games not what dam color the hardware inside the case is lol.

 

[chimaxi83]

Written with an air of typical nvidia fanboy arrogance. It's good that R* is being sensible and and did not let this game get locked down to ... "Nvidia only features" lol ...

Huh? Where is the fanboy arrogance? Your asshattery is why you continue to be noticed and banned, Gordon Freemen aka [insert 5 other banned names here].

 

[ThatBuzzkiller]

Alright to clear up a few misconceptions between PCSS vs CHS they're both SIMILAR in terms of output ...

Both are extremely approximate when it comes to simulating soft shadows so neither is really more accurate than the other ...

 

[Silverforce11]

Alright to clear up a few misconceptions between PCSS vs CHS they're both SIMILAR in terms of output ...

Both are extremely approximate when it comes to simulating soft shadows so neither is really more accurate than the other ...

Not true. Look here:

http://www.computerbase.de/bildstrecke/64346/1/

Rockstar's shadow is slightly blurred.

CHS is very sharp.

PCSS is very blurred.

Which is better is subjective.

 

[ThatBuzzkiller]

Not true. Look here:

http://www.computerbase.de/bildstrecke/64346/1/

Rockstar's shadow is slightly blurred.

CHS is very sharp.

PCSS is very blurred.

Which is better is subjective.

Doesn't matter!

You can tweek the light source to get comparable results. Both methods are ad hoc!

 

[mnewsham]

Not true. Look here:

http://www.computerbase.de/bildstrecke/64346/1/

Rockstar's shadow is slightly blurred.

CHS is very sharp.

PCSS is very blurred.

Which is better is subjective.

I personally prefer the CHS, but I can see why people might prefer the other.

 

[Intel FX Master]

Huh? Where is the fanboy arrogance? Your asshattery is why you continue to be noticed and banned, Gordon Freemen aka [insert 5 other banned names here].

Nice false claims. Troll detected !


RBM Detected! Bye...........

-Rvenger

 

[ZGR]

Funny, I prefer the Softest Shadows. I think CHS shadow setting looks terrible compared to PCSS. But I have the setting set to Softest because I think it looks the best.

 

[Intel FX Master]

Funny, I prefer the Softest Shadows. I think CHS shadow setting looks terrible compared to PCSS. But I have the setting set to Softest because I think it looks the best.

I think it looks real low definition and unrealistic. Add that to the nvidia option FXAA and now you effectively have a 1080P game looking like it's running at 720P.

 

[Silverforce11]

Funny, I prefer the Softest Shadows. I think CHS shadow setting looks terrible compared to PCSS. But I have the setting set to Softest because I think it looks the best.

One of the problems I have with these shadow approaches to blur it out based on distance of the shadow caster is this:

Using high res shadow maps take a lot of resources and often incur a major performance hit. The reason for using high res shadow maps is to provide accurate details, particular of edges, to removing aliasing and to provide clarity.

The problem with blurring it is that it defeats the purpose of high res shadow maps. Now you end up with a blurry shadow that could have been achieved with a low res shadow map + blur filter.

It's similar to my gripes against TXAA or lesser, FXAA, you turn up the texture quality and filtering to the max to enjoy high clarity images, then you add these AA filters that blur the scene like crazy (TXAA is horrid for this), it ends up looking like a low fidelity image that matches normal settings & not ultra. It's like to kill jaggies, you smear the entire scene so you no longer notice jaggies.

That ain't progress. At least in the case of FXAA, there's no performance hit and only slight blurring. TXAA? You cannot even defend that when the hit is like MSAA.

 

[soccerballtux]

I think it looks real low definition and unrealistic. Add that to the nvidia option FXAA and now you effectively have a 1080P game looking like it's running at 720P.

the way it's meant to be played ()

 

[casiofx]

Easiest comparison

Go out and look at the real shadows cast by the leaves of a tree.

From that, I can see AMD CHS is a bit sharper and less blurred while Nvidia PCSS are kinda too blurred. Neither looked perfect.

Rockstar's looked the best for me

 

[tential]

CHS looks too hard.
Nvidia vs the 1st image... I barely see a difference. I don't even know why I'd want the feature on? There has to be a better way to showcase why I'd want the feature on.

 

[96Firebird]

I agree, CHS looks too hard. You can see every leaf of the tree, which is not how shadows further from the ground look.

To get a better idea of how PCSS and Rockstar's soft shadow, go here, go about halfway down, and click the shadow comparison image. That opens it up fullscreen and you can switch between them. I couldn't figure out how to do that from Silverforce's link...

Looking at them, CHS is hard shadows everywhere. Rockstar's soft shadows blurs all the shadows, no matter how far from the surface you are. PCSS seems to blur the further you get from the shadow source. Notice the difference between the bar's shadow on the ground (soft) and the bar's shadow on the box to the left (hard).

Either way, you probably won't notice the difference in regular gameplay. I play with Rockstar's soft shadows on...

 

[Silverforce11]

I agree, CHS looks too hard. You can see every leaf of the tree, which is not how shadows further from the ground look.

To get a better idea of how PCSS and Rockstar's soft shadow, go here, go about halfway down, and click the shadow comparison image. That opens it up fullscreen and you can switch between them. I couldn't figure out how to do that from Silverforce's link...

Looking at them, CHS is hard shadows everywhere. Rockstar's soft shadows blurs all the shadows, no matter how far from the surface you are. PCSS seems to blur the further you get from the shadow source. Notice the difference between the bar's shadow on the ground (soft) and the bar's shadow on the box to the left (hard).

Either way, you probably won't notice the difference in regular gameplay. I play with Rockstar's soft shadows on...

In the case of shadow clarity & sharpness vs realism, its a subjective matter. I prefer Rockstar's implementation, not too blurry but not too sharp.

Also, in that same article:

"Nvidia has currently still struggling with errors (all shadows are missing on the left field), beyond the shadows are very soft. AMD's version is more detailed."

They are suggesting that with PCSS, left light sources don't cast proper shadows, its a bug.
Very strange since they didn't back it up with comparison screenshots.

The interesting thing is here:

Softest is Rockstar's implementation.

It looks like AMD's CHS runs even better on NV GPUs than on AMD GPUs. AMD is in the business of enabling their competitors to stomp all over them.

Contrary to NV, where PCSS on AMD causes the in-game level (not in built benchmark) to crash on load.

 

[casiofx]

I agree, CHS looks too hard. You can see every leaf of the tree, which is not how shadows further from the ground look.

To get a better idea of how PCSS and Rockstar's soft shadow, go here, go about halfway down, and click the shadow comparison image. That opens it up fullscreen and you can switch between them. I couldn't figure out how to do that from Silverforce's link...

Looking at them, CHS is hard shadows everywhere. Rockstar's soft shadows blurs all the shadows, no matter how far from the surface you are. PCSS seems to blur the further you get from the shadow source. Notice the difference between the bar's shadow on the ground (soft) and the bar's shadow on the box to the left (hard).

Either way, you probably won't notice the difference in regular gameplay. I play with Rockstar's soft shadows on...

You are right.

PCSS would've look the best if they adjusted the slope of blur vs distance. Make it less blur according to the distance, now it looked too blurred.

 

[xorbe]

I like the soft shadows. Hard/sharp is like what a spotlight would produce, like DOOM.

 

[monstercameron]

I agree, CHS looks too hard. You can see every leaf of the tree, which is not how shadows further from the ground look.

To get a better idea of how PCSS and Rockstar's soft shadow, go here, go about halfway down, and click the shadow comparison image. That opens it up fullscreen and you can switch between them. I couldn't figure out how to do that from Silverforce's link...

Looking at them, CHS is hard shadows everywhere. Rockstar's soft shadows blurs all the shadows, no matter how far from the surface you are. PCSS seems to blur the further you get from the shadow source. Notice the difference between the bar's shadow on the ground (soft) and the bar's shadow on the box to the left (hard).

Either way, you probably won't notice the difference in regular gameplay. I play with Rockstar's soft shadows on...

can't tell which is better

• R* blurred, loss of fine detail and moire
• chs (too)sharp, tonnes of fine detail, moire
• pcss decent sharpness on closer shadows, too blurred on distant shadows, loss of fine detail, less moire

R* shadows are just super blurred.

 

[Silverforce11]

can't tell which is better

• R* blurred, loss of fine detail and moire
• chs (too)sharp, tonnes of fine detail, moire
• pcss decent sharpness on closer shadows, too blurred on distant shadows, loss of fine detail, less moire

R* shadows are just super blurred.

Its great that they have 3 different modes for gamers to pick which they prefer, really show Rockstar cares about PC gamers.

 

[96Firebird]

In the case of shadow clarity & sharpness vs realism, its a subjective matter.

Not really, it is physics. Shadows that are closer to their background will have a sharper edge than shadows further from their background.

Likewise, if the object is CLOSE to its background, then the non parallel rays (from the left and right edges of the sun's disc) diverge very little, so the shadow is sharp-edged. If the object is FAR from its background, the rays are able to diverge more, forming a softer edged shadow.

Source

Unless you mean what a user prefers is subjective, in which case of course I agree. Everyone has their own preference to what they think looks good, which is why I am glad we get options.

Edit - I agree, Nvidia's slope is too high for blurring. The difference between the bars should not be that much (and the tree looks too blurred), but I'm curious to see how building's shadows are blurred.