How many times and people still don't learn. Don't resist arrest and you'll be fine. Don't try to kill or assault a cop and you won't get shot.
It's really, really, simple.
It's really, really, simple.
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Aharami
why is 'throwing her to the ground and beating her with a baton' the only other option to tasing her? If he cant manage to put cuffs on a 72 yr old woman, he shouldnt be a cop. dont they get training for these sorts of things?
and no, i havent watched the video. youtube's blocked at work
He was quite able. Here's a sample use of force chart for you to take a look at.
Doesn't it say on the right hand side of your link that the actions are subject to age, sex, size, skill level, multiple subjects, and relative strength? If a fit, middle-aged man can't stand firm against a push from a 72 year old lady, then he really shouldn't be out on the street.
Originally posted by: spidey07
How many times and people still don't learn. Don't resist arrest and you'll be fine. Don't try to kill or assault a cop and you won't get shot.
It's really, really, simple.
Originally posted by: I Saw OJ
Why couldnt he have just made her comply with some physical force? I'm sure he could easily overpower her and get cuffs on her without her being able to do a damn thing about it.
Originally posted by: QueBert
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: QueBert
Cops are taser happy, this video doesn't surprise me one bit. There was a time when a person resisted arrest resulted in the cop trying harder to get them to comply without using excessive force. This is a good example of excessive force. If a cop has to taser a 72 year old woman because he couldn't get her under control without excessive force, he needs to be one of the people who reads parking meters, or better yet. Give him a desk job. If she had been 25 I'm sure he would have shot her. Totally unacceptable, and he won't even get a slap on the wrist.
You are an idiot.
Ever try to cuff someone who doesn't want to be cuffed? Sure, it can be done. With force. Statistically, officer injuries and suspect injuries are lower with the use of Tasers.
Tasers are typically on the same force level as pepper spray - below hard hand control.
How much training do you have, again?
I have eyes and ears, and when I was growing up cops didn't use tasers on 72 year old females. You taser a woman of that age you run a good risk of her falling and breaking her hip. I would have to assume a few bruises on her wrists would infinitely outweigh falling and possibly never being able to walk again due to a broken hip. Funny how 25-30 years ago cops didn't taser people much at all, but today it seems common place. And instances like this aren't exactly "oh I can see why he did that" cases. Cops aren't trained to taser whenever they feel like it. It's a recent (fairly any ways) phenomenon. Cops are much shitter and far less competent than they were 30 years ago.
I am very out of shape and I could easily have cuffed her. She's 72, and even with her fully resisting it wouldn't be hard.
Originally posted by: CPA
"I dare ya" I would have tased her right after she said that to me.
Originally posted by: QueBert
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: QueBert
It takes training to learn how to taser an old woman? The only "training" I have was some self defense classes 20 years ago. We learned how to disarm a mugger with a gun using only our hands. The technique we learned didn't cause any real damage to the perp, it was just to disarm them. I suppose a 72 year old woman poses a much higher threat than a mugger though. *shrug* Maybe police might not be trained as well as typical citizens enrolled in a self defense class that lasts all of 3 hours spread out over 2 days. But than again we didn't learn how to deal with 72 year old females in the self defense class. So you're right, I don't know what I'm talking about.
:laugh:
That's one of main things they use to teach in self defense classes, the only time I was robbed the gun was to my head and not my chest. So I was unable to use the skill I learned over my 3 hour course. I still know without any offical training I could easily hand cuff an old lady. I have plenty of hand cuffing experience on my nephew back in the days. I never left any bruises, and he always put up a fight. I even was pretty good at hog tying him without leaving so much as a mark.
Originally posted by: kevman
Just another typical example of an asshole cop abusing his power.
Originally posted by: spidey07
How many times and people still don't learn. Don't resist arrest and you'll be fine. Don't try to kill or assault a cop and you won't get shot.
It's really, really, simple.
Originally posted by: Ns1
Originally posted by: spidey07
How many times and people still don't learn. Don't resist arrest and you'll be fine. Don't try to kill or assault a cop and you won't get shot.
It's really, really, simple.
this.
Originally posted by: amdhunter
For those of you with older parents or grandparents -- one question. Do you think that they would have complied with that officer? My parent's wouldn't have for sure. They are way too old for stupidness from an officer.
When you guys get that old, do you want to be bothered with that shit? I don't give a shit what she did. Tasering a person of that age could have killed her.
Originally posted by: waffleironhead
I have a hard time hearing what is going on in the video. So bear that in mind. I wonder if a little better communication would have gone anywhere in this situation. If the woman was aware that failing to sign the ticket resulted in an arrest, would this have ended this way. From what I see, he walks up and hands her the ticket, then a little bit later tells her to get out of the car. Tells her she is under arrest, and then shoves her around...etc. Arresting her should have been a last resort, after trying to convince her that signing was in her best interests.
FWIW I think that the cop acted fine and by the book, I'm just wondering how hard he tried to avoid this end result.
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: amdhunter
For those of you with older parents or grandparents -- one question. Do you think that they would have complied with that officer? My parent's wouldn't have for sure. They are way too old for stupidness from an officer.
When you guys get that old, do you want to be bothered with that shit? I don't give a shit what she did. Tasering a person of that age could have killed her.
All she had to do was sign a speeding ticket. That's all. Refusal to sign the ticket in Texas means you go to jail. It's that simple.
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Aharami
why is 'throwing her to the ground and beating her with a baton' the only other option to tasing her? If he cant manage to put cuffs on a 72 yr old woman, he shouldnt be a cop. dont they get training for these sorts of things?
and no, i havent watched the video. youtube's blocked at work
He was quite able. Here's a sample use of force chart for you to take a look at.
Doesn't it say on the right hand side of your link that the actions are subject to age, sex, size, skill level, multiple subjects, and relative strength? If a fit, middle-aged man can't stand firm against a push from a 72 year old lady, then he really shouldn't be out on the street.
it also says that if the individual kicks or pushes the officer he can strike. punch, kick baton, pepper spray or TASER
it also says pulling away from officer, the officer may use stricking muscle groups, take downs, joint twisting and pressure points.
so telll me if the officer used any of those LEGAL techniques you would be all for? like slamming her to the ground and putthing his knee in her back? you are ok with that?
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Aharami
why is 'throwing her to the ground and beating her with a baton' the only other option to tasing her? If he cant manage to put cuffs on a 72 yr old woman, he shouldnt be a cop. dont they get training for these sorts of things?
and no, i havent watched the video. youtube's blocked at work
He was quite able. Here's a sample use of force chart for you to take a look at.
Doesn't it say on the right hand side of your link that the actions are subject to age, sex, size, skill level, multiple subjects, and relative strength? If a fit, middle-aged man can't stand firm against a push from a 72 year old lady, then he really shouldn't be out on the street.
it also says that if the individual kicks or pushes the officer he can strike. punch, kick baton, pepper spray or TASER
it also says pulling away from officer, the officer may use stricking muscle groups, take downs, joint twisting and pressure points.
so telll me if the officer used any of those LEGAL techniques you would be all for? like slamming her to the ground and putthing his knee in her back? you are ok with that?
Some people are pissed off at all cops because they got busted doing 90 in a 45 and can't grasp with the reality of taking the blame for their own stupidity and thusly villify all cops regardless of the facts. To them a cop could run into a burning building save 14 infant orphans, but still be a monster baby killing piece of shit, because he couldn't get one of them out in time.
Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Well, maybe he should have explained that. Maybe he did, but it sounded like he basically asked her to sign, then said it's not an admission of guilt, and jumped straight to arresting her. Not everyone has read up on every little law. I know that ignorance of the law isn't considered an excuse, but in this situation he has a responsibility to let her know the situation.
Winkfein refused. Bieze insisted, saying he would have to arrest her if she didn?t sign the ticket. When she wouldn?t sign, he opened the door to the truck and told her to get out.
[...]
When Bieze tells her to get out of her truck, Winkfein says, ?Take me to jail. Go on and take me to jail.?
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Well, maybe he should have explained that. Maybe he did, but it sounded like he basically asked her to sign, then said it's not an admission of guilt, and jumped straight to arresting her. Not everyone has read up on every little law. I know that ignorance of the law isn't considered an excuse, but in this situation he has a responsibility to let her know the situation.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31202935/
Winkfein refused. Bieze insisted, saying he would have to arrest her if she didn?t sign the ticket. When she wouldn?t sign, he opened the door to the truck and told her to get out.
[...]
When Bieze tells her to get out of her truck, Winkfein says, ?Take me to jail. Go on and take me to jail.?