Granite Bay

[Fant]

Your ability to overclock your P4 will be more a function of your the quality of your chip, your environment, and cooling system than the motherboard. Certain motherboards such as th Asus will "allow" you to adjust the settings to do this but whether you are successful or not will depend on what I mentioned earlier.

 

[ArborBarber]

It seems I must have misunderstood...I thought the Asus didn't OC as well as the Gigabyte...That the GA-8INXP was much more stable at higher FSB settings? Well, in any event I guess we will all just have to wait for them to be released to see exactly what's what.

 

[tstrike]

heard the gb mobo have only 1:1 divider
so won't a PE board be faster with a 3:4 divider?

 

[oldfart]

I heard the gb mobo have only 1:1 divider
so won't a PE board be faster with a 3:4 divider?

No

 

[NoVo]

After reading Anand's review, I may now be leaning more towards an 850E with PC1066 for my next upgrade (within the next month).

Can anyone talk me out of that?

 

[Fant]

Yes, the DDR PC2100 which is what you need for dual ddr is vastly cheaper than PC1066 and they both seem to perform the same. The granite bay boards are probably a bit more expensive than the pc1066 boards because they are just coming out but I still think since you prob would want at least 512mb of ram these days that the savings in the memory would make it worth your while. Dont forget large capacity DDR sticks are much easier to come by than 1066.

 

[308nato]

Originally posted by: NoVo
After reading Anand's review, I may now be leaning more towards an 850E with PC1066 for my next upgrade (within the next month).

Can anyone talk me out of that?

No. I went the same route. I know what Santa is bringing me and its good.

 

[pomoney]

check out the SiS 655 >> http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/articles.hwz?cid=6&aid=552&page=1

its cheaper and faster and better-er than GB... for what I want anyway

 

[Fant]

Dude wtf...there are no benchmarks on that review?!

 

[senior guy]

Originally posted by: Fant
Dude wtf...there are no benchmarks on that review?!

It's not a review, just a lot of early marketing hype from Asus. I very much doubt that the board will be available in the US before Jan - Feb. '03.

 

[oldfart]

ts cheaper and faster and better-er than GB

I've never seen a single bench on the 655. What makes you think it's faster? Better? In what way?

 

[IntelConvert]

Originally posted by: oldfart

its cheaper and faster and better-er than GB

I've never seen a single bench on the 655. What makes you think it's faster? Better? In what way?

Potentially greater bandwidth, but as you imply, the proof of that is yet to be seen.

 

[oldfart]

Ah, the wasted BW that DDR333 will provide.

 

[Fant]

I'm still looking for a reason why actual scores of PC1066 provides a higher bandwidth than dual ddr even tho dual ddr is higher in theoretical.

 

[IntelConvert]

Originally posted by: oldfart
Ah, the wasted BW that DDR333 will provide.

Well now, that all depends on whether or not your P4 can hit 166MHz FSB. My 2.4B (C1) easily can!

 

[IntelConvert]

Originally posted by: Fant
I'm still looking for a reason why actual scores of PC1066 provides a higher bandwidth than dual ddr even tho dual ddr is higher in theoretical.

They are comparable - theoretically speaking, and from these benches, GB doesn't look too shabby to me!

 

[oldfart]

Well now, that all depends on whether or not your P4 can hit 166MHz FSB. My 2.4B (C1) easily can!

No, it doesn't matter. A P4 needs 8 x FSB speed mem BW. 133 FSB P4 needs 4.2 GB/sec BW for maximum performance. A Granite Bay with a 1:1 ratio DDR266 provides this. 166 FSB P4 needs 5.3 GB/sec BW. Again, a Granite Bay wiill provide that with a 1:1 ratio @ DDR 333. The mem speed scales with the FSB speed. 1:! ia all that is needed.

This is why the 4:5 ratio is not needed. The asynchronous mem timing will only add latency.

 

[Fant]

I have a p4 1.8a which normally runs at 18x100 = 1800Mhz and the FSB normally would be 4x100 = 400Mhz. I am overclocking it right now to 18x133 = 2400Mhz and the FSB therefore is 4x133= 533Mhz. However I have my PC2700 ram running at 166Mhzx2= DDR333 therefore I need the ability to set my cpu fsb bus to 133 while run that memory at 166. Hence I need the 4:5 ratio (133:166) .

 

[oldfart]

I have a p4 1.8a which normally runs at 18x100 = 1800Mhz and the FSB normally would be 4x100 = 400Mhz. I am overclocking it right now to 18x133 = 2400Mhz and the FSB therefore is 4x133= 533Mhz. However I have my PC2700 ram running at 166Mhzx2= DDR333 therefore I need the ability to set my cpu fsb bus to 133 while run that memory at 166. Hence I need the 4:5 ratio (133:166) .

Yes, but that is single channel DDR. The same rules dont apply. Single channel DDR can not supply the full BW requirements of a P4 even when using a 4:5 or 3:4 mem ratio. Dual channel DDR can with only a 1:1 ratio.

Some BW numbers @ 133 FSB

Single channel DDR:
DDR266 = 2.1 GB/Sec (1:1)
DDR333 = 2.7 GB/Sec (4:5)
DDR354 = 2.8 GB/Sec (3:4)

RDRAM @ 133 FSB
PC1066 = 4.2 GB/Sec

DC DDR @ 133 FSB
DC DDR266 = 4.2 GB/Sec (1:1)

Again, P4 needs ~ 4.2 GB/Sec for max performance. This is why mem ratios are needed for SC DDR, but are not needed for DC DDR. As you raise the FSB when overclocking, the mem speed goes up with it. 1:1 (DDR266 @ 133 FSB) is all that is required

 

[Fant]

So you are saying on dual ddr that you will gain no benefit by running your memory at DDR333 speeds rather than DDR266 using a 4:5 divider and running async? I think the benchmarks have shown that when you run the memory at a faster bus than the proc (ie run the proc at 133fsb and memory at 166 or 200 even) that the sisandra numbers are higher. Therefore it would seem that running async with faster memory is better than running sync 1:1 with the regular pc2100..

 

[caboob]

No, it doesn't matter. A P4 needs 8 x FSB speed mem BW. 133 FSB P4 needs 4.2 GB/sec BW for maximum performance. A Granite Bay with a 1:1 ratio
DDR266 provides this. 166 FSB P4 needs 5.3 GB/sec BW. Again, a Granite Bay wiill provide that with a 1:1 ratio @ DDR 333. The mem speed scales
with the FSB speed. 1:! ia all that is needed.

This is why the 4:5 ratio is not needed. The asynchronous mem timing will only add latency.

 

[oldfart]

So you are saying on dual ddr that you will gain no benefit by running your memory at DDR333 speeds rather than DDR266 using a 4:5 divider and running async?

Yes

think the benchmarks have shown that when you run the memory at a faster bus than the proc (ie run the proc at 133fsb and memory at 166 or 200 even) that the sisandra numbers are higher. Therefore it would seem that running async with faster memory is better than running sync 1:1 with the regular pc2100..

That is SC DDR.

I dont know how else to explain it to you. In those tests, did they ever exceed the memory requiremnets of the CPU? No. They were always below. To get SC DDR to full mem BW requirements of a P4, you would have to run the ram at TWICE the speed of the FSB. You have choices of +25% (4:5), +33% (3:4). You need +100%. How do you do that? With 2 sticks of ram instead of 1.

Remember when DDR400 came out for the Athlon XP? It gave a whopping 0% performance increase. Why? Because the mem BW exceeded what the CPU could use. This is the same with DC DDR333. Not needed.

 

[Fant]

Dude who's talkign about SC DDR? I'm talking about DC DDR. Comparing running DC DDR at 266 vs DC DDR at 333 and beyond. Look at here and see the numbers as they o/c the DC DDR past what theoretically should have satisfied the p4's bandwidth (ie DDR266) Bottom line to run at faster than DC DDR 266 you need the other dividers.

 

[oldfart]

I give up. Did you actually READ that article?????

You do realize the board they tested is a Granite Bay right??? You also understand that the GB has no 4:5 right???

How did they get to DC DDR333?? They overclocked the FSB to 166

133 x 2 = 266
166 x 2 = 333

Simple math. There was no divider used. The DDR speed increases as the FSB increases.

133 FSB P4 needs 4.2 GB/Sec BW. That is DC DDR 1:1 ratio
166 FSB P4 needs 5.3 GB/Sec BW. That is DC DDR 1:1 ratio

Anyone else want to try and explain this??

 

[TenEgg]

all I can suggest is read this whole thread and all the GB reviews! Then you should understand how it works!