Graphics switching on a desktop.

[Titan]

I am not a rich man, but I love Thinkpads for laptops so I shop for 5-year old models like the W500. It was around that time that Lenovo introduced graphics switching to save power, where you could in software manually switch the discrete graphics card to onboard or now IGP graphics to save power. This isn't supported in Windows XP, but it is in Vista and up.

I would like the same option on my desktop and wonder if it is possible.

I have an i3 clarkdale and honestly, the IGP looks nice and is fast for all things 2D and even some old 3D things. But I also have a GTX 260 that when I plug in, runs Starcraft 2 beautifully. My current solution is to open the case and unplug the video card when I am not using it. I save 10-15 bucks a month on my electric bill when I am not using the GTX 260, so this isn't peanuts I am talking here.

It would be nice to switch off the video card in software, resulting in no power draw. I am picturing a monitor with say a DVI input and an HDMI input, and I run the DVI from the card, and the HDMI from the on board IGP, and then just switch between them.

Can it be done?

 

[kalrith]

You need a board that supports lucid virtu. There's an AT review on that, and the results aren't good: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4199/...egrateddiscrete-gpu-on-sandy-bridge-platforms

Basically, your gaming performance will suffer, and the power savings isn't that great, because the dedicated card can't be completely powered down.

I question your assumption that you save $10-15 per month by unplugging your graphics card. According to AT Bench, a GTX 260 uses 44W at idle. Even assuming that the HD3000 uses 0W (which it obviously doesn't), you'd have to leave your PC on 24/7 and pay about 27 cents per kWh for that 44W of power usage to cost you $10 per month. To cost $15 per month, your cost would have to be 41 cents per kWh.

I pay about 10 cents per kWh, and at that price you're only looking at a savings of $3.64 per month by unplugging your GTX 260. And that's if you leave your computer at idle (i.e. not sleeping or hibernating) 24/7.

In other words, you're probably going to a lot of trouble and risking messing up your gpu and/or mobo to save enough for a Happy Meal every month.

 

[Jovec]

It's coming. There is a prebuilt that had NV Optimus on the desktop that was reviewed recently here on AT. AMD's 7000 series have long idle mode for even lower power use when the monitor is in sleep mode.

But... your math seems off unless you have some extreme conditions going on (And apologies in advance if you do).

Even if you pay $0.25/kw hr (aka Hawaii prices), your 260 idles at 40w, and your leave your computer on 24/7 that's only about $7.20 per month.

260 idle/2D is closer to 25w, and dropping electricity down to even just $0.15 kwh (approximate US average for "high" prices) and you are looking at $2.70 per month. Factor in actual usage like sleep/power off time and gaming (no elect/ cost irrelevant respectively) and figure 8 hours a day/7 days a week and you are looking at something like $1.00 per month of additional electricity costs by leaving your 260 in full time.

Assuming you aren't paying exorbitant rates for power, and you are completely sure that your 260 is the sole source of this extra $10-15 month in power, then it's possible that something is wrong like the card isn't using idle/2d clocks and is running at full power. Do you have multiple monitors hooked up to it, as this will prevent the card from using idle/2d clocks too?

According to AT Bench, a GTX 260 uses 44W at idle.

Edit: Kalrith is spot on too, but I believe he confused idle power with idle temp for his 44w number.

 

[Titan]

Thanks guys. I'm not saying that I know for sure it's only the video card, there are probably other factors. I didn't have my kill-a-watt in use for this. It has a lot to do with habits, and for one spell I was unemployed and gaming a lot, and later gaming a bit on the IGP, but not as much.

It's more of the principle of the thing..

 

[kalrith]

Edit: Kalrith is spot on too, but I believe he confused idle power with idle temp for his 44w number.

Oops...that's exactly what I did! I thought 44W was really high, and it's probably half that.

Thanks guys. I'm not saying that I know for sure it's only the video card, there are probably other factors. I didn't have my kill-a-watt in use for this. It has a lot to do with habits, and for one spell I was unemployed and gaming a lot, and later gaming a bit on the IGP, but not as much.

It's more of the principle of the thing..

It's up to you what you do with your habits. For example, you could sell your GTX 260, downclock your CPU, and remove all but one stick of RAM, and that would make your computer so slow that you'll hardly want to use it, saving you even more in electricity! But then that kind of defeats the purpose of having a computer that you probably spent hundreds of dollars on to play a game that you probably paid $60 for. Saving pennies every month by not using something that you invested hundreds of dollars in seems a bit foolish.

However, if you are counting pennies, then there are a lot better places to save that won't impact you as much. Use your kill-a-watt meter to see how much electricity different things use when turned off. If they use a noticeable amount, then unplug them or turn off the strip plug. Don't drive more than necessary. Buy less-expensive food. Don't go out to eat. etc.

I think all those things should be done before resorting to unplugging your video card to save $3 (or less) per month . Also, there's still the increased likelihood that you'll mess up your video card by removing it so much, and if you replace it even with a cheap $50 video card, you'll never recoup that money in electricity savings.

One thought about this situation. Can you turn off the slot for your graphics card in the BIOS? If you can completely turn it off and tell it to use the onboard video, then you might be able to get the energy savings without unplugging the card.

 

[KingFatty]

It would be nice to switch off the video card in software, resulting in no power draw. I am picturing a monitor with say a DVI input and an HDMI input, and I run the DVI from the card, and the HDMI from the on board IGP, and then just switch between them.

Can it be done?

I think this is a good solution, using a cable from each card going into the same monitor that has different inputs.

Manually select the card you want to run, and have your monitor switch to that input, perhaps even auto-switch.

The issue is how to select the card? I'm playing around with my system right now, and I just verified that I can use the Win+P shortcut key to toggle between video cards. It's pretty cool. I don't have my kill-a-watt plugged in yet... let me see...

 

[KingFatty]

Ok here are the actual wattage numbers measured at the wall by a kill-a-watt meter for my computer running a discrete graphics card and the integrated motherboard graphics. Specifically, the card is an HD5450, and the integrated mobo graphics is an HD4290 from an 890-based AMD motherboard. I am not measuring power consumed by the monitors, just the computer's power supply.

Configuration at desktop:
1920x1200 monitor plugged into HD5450
1600x1200 monitor plugged into HD4290

Power consumption:
1. (using Win+P keystroke to select "extend") both video cards active: ~70 watts

2. HD5450 only, with HD4290 inactive (using Win+P keystroke to select "computer only"): ~70 watts

3. HD4290 only, with HD5450 inactive (using Win+P keystroke to select "projector only"): ~70 watts

4. Hybrid Crossfire mode - the output only comes out of the HD5450: ~70 watts

Hmm, not sure why it didn't save any power, perhaps these video cards never go into power saving mode when I use win+p to "disable" them?

Surprisingly, when I went into Device Manager and disabled my HD5450, the power consumption *INCREASED* to ~74 watts. Huh? Same change when I enabled the HD5450 and disabled the HD4290.

Maybe it's different when you use NVidia cards, but my little experimenting shows no improvement when disabling/enabling different cards using software methods described above.

 

[wahdangun]

I think this is a good solution, using a cable from each card going into the same monitor that has different inputs.

Manually select the card you want to run, and have your monitor switch to that input, perhaps even auto-switch.

The issue is how to select the card? I'm playing around with my system right now, and I just verified that I can use the Win+P shortcut key to toggle between video cards. It's pretty cool. I don't have my kill-a-watt plugged in yet... let me see...

no....no... that shortcut key is not turn off your graphic card, so unless you unplug it, the graphic card still consuming power.


for the op, why not upgrade your GPU to more power efficient ? like amd HD 7750 ?

its have long idle power consumption just 3 watt

 

[kalrith]

no....no... that shortcut key is not turn off your graphic card, so unless you unplug it, the graphic card still consuming power.


for the op, why not upgrade your GPU to more power efficient ? like amd HD 7750 ?

its have long idle power consumption just 3 watt

Unless you're going to buy new components anyways, then spending a lot of money to save a little money doesn't make sense. If the PC is on for an average of 8 hours per day, then it'll take years to recoup the cost of a 7750, and I'm guessing that he'll never recoup the initial investment.

 

[wahdangun]

Unless you're going to buy new components anyways, then spending a lot of money to save a little money doesn't make sense. If the PC is on for an average of 8 hours per day, then it'll take years to recoup the cost of a 7750, and I'm guessing that he'll never recoup the initial investment.

but he will get DX11 support, and more powerfull card while using less energy, he even said its save him $15 a month if he unplug his graphic card so i guest he can save $7 by using more efficient card.

 

[KingFatty]

no....no... that shortcut key is not turn off your graphic card, so unless you unplug it, the graphic card still consuming power.

How do you mean "unplug" - I will repeat the experiment but how do I unplug the card?

I could try unplugging the cable from the output port of the card. However, I don't want to bother with the internal card pulling it out of the PCIe slot, as that is not something I would want to repetitively do as it's too invasive. But if I unplug the cable from the card so nothing is plugged into it, will the card know to go into idle mode or somehow use less power?

 

[wahdangun]

How do you mean "unplug" - I will repeat the experiment but how do I unplug the card?

I could try unplugging the cable from the output port of the card. However, I don't want to bother with the internal card pulling it out of the PCIe slot, as that is not something I would want to repetitively do as it's too invasive. But if I unplug the cable from the card so nothing is plugged into it, will the card know to go into idle mode or somehow use less power?

unplugging will not affect anything because the card still consume power it maybe go to idle but still, and that explain why you didn't see any different in power consumption in your kill-o-watt meter.

you must take out the card to truly prevent the card from consuming any additional electricity.

that is why i recommend him getting a more power efficient card like HD 7750.