Great Op Ed

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

3. Public debt. This is probably going to be the catalyst. If the US continues to recklessly spend money and refuse to pay back it's treasuries, the countries that finance our debt will simply stop to do so. Already, most of our debt is financed by states that are at least indifferent to our interests. We are entrusting the financial security of this country to countries like China, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Germany, Norway, Finland, Japan. We are paying nearly a trillion dollars a year in defense costs (Pentagon budget, oversea bases, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan). We have learned nothing from the other empires in history. These costs are becoming an albatross onto us.

This is not accurate. The vast majority of our debt is financed internally. About 25% is financed by the countries you mentioned.

 

[Martin]

Yet, the episode reveals the poisoned character of our politics.

We saw it earlier on display in August, when the crowds that came out for town hall meetings to oppose Obama's health-care plans were called "thugs," "fascists," "racists" and "evil-mongers" by national Democrats.

We see it as Rep. Joe Wilson shouts, "You lie!" at the president during his address to a joint session of Congress.

"You Lie!" Get the bumper sticker that immortalizes American opposition to Obama

We seem not only to disagree with each other more than ever, but to have come almost to detest one another. Politically, culturally, racially, we seem ever ready to go for each others' throats.

Wow, talk about irony

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
I can't believe even one person takes the idea of the US breaking up seriously. If you do this, you're watching too much cable news. The news programs highlight the crazies, because they make the news. They are in no way indicative of how the vast majority of people in the US think, and there are no strong economic or social reasons for the US to split up. Last time we had a civil war we did it because one half of our country was participating in the systematic enslavement of an entire race. Now what are we going to do it over, gay people getting married?

Anyone who thinks our problems currently would lead to civil war or a breakup needs to go learn what REAL national problems look like.

And Romans living in Rome thought the empire would last forever. Before that, the Babylonians though their civilization would flourish forever. The Egyptians thought their empire would last forever. Even during the generation that saw the collapse of those civilizations thought it was an impossibility. We are closer to collapse than you think. There are far too many issues coming to a head. America has paid off paying the piper for a long time now.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: eskimospy
I can't believe even one person takes the idea of the US breaking up seriously. If you do this, you're watching too much cable news. The news programs highlight the crazies, because they make the news. They are in no way indicative of how the vast majority of people in the US think, and there are no strong economic or social reasons for the US to split up. Last time we had a civil war we did it because one half of our country was participating in the systematic enslavement of an entire race. Now what are we going to do it over, gay people getting married?

Anyone who thinks our problems currently would lead to civil war or a breakup needs to go learn what REAL national problems look like.

And Romans living in Rome thought the empire would last forever. Before that, the Babylonians though their civilization would flourish forever. The Egyptians thought their empire would last forever. Even during the generation that saw the collapse of those civilizations thought it was an impossibility. We are closer to collapse than you think. There are far too many issues coming to a head. America has paid off paying the piper for a long time now.

Actually plenty of people in Rome realized just how fragile their empire was, that's why there were so many attempts to reform its structure. Your vision of 'too many issues coming to a head' is the myopia of the present. People frequently believe that they are living in uniquely complex, tumultuous, or trying times. They always tend to think that the previous generations were some sort of gilded age that we've lost. Guess what? They almost never are.

The US has no credible external threats, we have no credible internal threats. Hell, back in the good old days people used to have huge riots and light sections of our cities on fire. Now we have people who shout angrily after they fill out the protest permit paperwork. Pardon me if I don't worry too hard about America's imminent collapse.

 

[Lemon law]

Pat Buchanan moaning about lack of unity???????????

Lest we forget, It was Pat Buchanan as Spiro Agnew's speech writer who turned a not too swift Spiro into the greatest polarizing figure of the decade of the 70's, and in the process, it was the clever Buchanan wordings that Spiro was repeating.

But I suppose when Buchanan now earns his daily bread by the written word, one runs out of themes sooner or later. And as Molly Irvins used to say about Buchanan, "there are two problems with Buchanan as a populist, " one is all the divisive garbage he brings with him. Its exactly what has destroyed populist surges in the past, setting whites against blacks, natives against immigrants, men against women, ............................divide, divide, and lose."

Nor did Molly have a better opinion regarding Buchanan's other rudimentary economic populist platforms, and finally concluded "that is piss-poor populism and bad economics to boot."

I miss Molly Irvins, but the world will probably improve when we have seen the last of Pat Buchanan. Pat has a gift for turning a phrase, but a gift misused when he does not even bother to use logic.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
As soon as the American economy tanks for good, this country will be fractionated in many different nation-states. Like another poster said, what keeps us together is our strong economy. That's what kept the Roman Empire together as well. When the economy collapsed, Rome split off into several different empires. The same will happen with America.

So what will the regions be?

Northern California w/ Pac. NW

Southern Cali, SW, parts of Texas for Spanish speaking "North Mexico"

The Libertarian states like Wyoming, Alaska, and Idaho in a loose confederacy

Sovereign Hawai'i

The Northeast/MidAtlantic

The South

What will happen to the Midwest and Appalachia?


Of my regions, I think the most likely to become separate entities are a Spanish SW and the Libertarian states (which can survive off natural resources and import everything they need).

Wolverines !!!

 

[BudAshes]

The only real problem is that the crazies are the loudest, so all we ever hear about are the completely insane people and what they have to say. The rest of us just sit back and go wtf is wrong with everyone?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Pat Buchanan moaning about lack of unity???????????

Lest we forget, It was Pat Buchanan as Spiro Agnew's speech writer who turned a not too swift Spiro into the greatest polarizing figure of the decade of the 70's, and in the process, it was the clever Buchanan wordings that Spiro was repeating.

Wow; the most polarizing figure of the 70's was his boss Nixon. He ripped the country in two like no president since Lincoln.

Maybe some don't appreciate how Watergate was a constitutional crisis that divided the country between passionate defenders of Nixon and passionate enemies.

There's a reason why Ford's best remembered quote as President is about 'healing the nation' from the 'national nightmare', a very unusual agenda for a president.

Indeed, Watergate brought about permanent changes in the national culture around the Presidency, its aura diminished - and that had some good effects on public policy.

 

[iNGEN2]

damn it, wrong thread...

 

[bamacre]

the middle 80% dictate the direction of the country.

And they've done one heck of a job.

 

[Lemon law]

My only comment is that Buchanan is a piss poor populist and the last man on earth who has a right to moan about a lack of American unity when ole Pat has done so much to foster that very American disunity.


But credit where credit is due, that man can turn a phrase, and never was he so self descriptive when he he labeled himself as a nattering neigh-bob of negativism.

 

[Red Dawn]

The only real problem is that the crazies are the loudest, so all we ever hear about are the completely insane people and what they have to say.

Yep take this forum for example, look at who start the most threads, the crazies.

 

[TruePaige]

well last time I looked.
Eagles have 2 wings.
A left wing and a right wing.
together they enable him to fly.

I think the analogy is ok for our country also.
You middle of the roaders give balance

If I may modify:

Eagles have 2 wings.
A left wing and a right wing.
Everything in the middle just eats, shits, and comes along for the ride.

This is true for 99% of our country at least, either you feel strongly about politics are you are just baahing along.

 

[PrinceofWands]

If I may modify:

Eagles have 2 wings.
A left wing and a right wing.
Everything in the middle just eats, shits, and comes along for the ride.

This is true for 99% of our country at least, either you feel strongly about politics are you are just baahing along.

Feeling strongly about politics, however, does NOT mean you're either left or right (which is a BIG part of the whole problem).

 

[CADsortaGUY]

well last time I looked.
Eagles have 2 wings.
A left wing and a right wing.
together they enable him to fly.

I think the analogy is ok for our country also.
You middle of the roaders give balance

balance? meh. More like along for the ride

Should have read the whole thread before responding to this post

 

[MotF Bane]

If I may modify:

Eagles have 2 wings.
A left wing and a right wing.
Everything in the middle just eats, shits, and comes along for the ride.

This is true for 99% of our country at least, either you feel strongly about politics are you are just baahing along.

That's foolishness.

 

[Atreus21]

I can't believe even one person takes the idea of the US breaking up seriously. If you do this, you're watching too much cable news. The news programs highlight the crazies, because they make the news. They are in no way indicative of how the vast majority of people in the US think, and there are no strong economic or social reasons for the US to split up. Last time we had a civil war we did it because one half of our country was participating in the systematic enslavement of an entire race. Now what are we going to do it over, gay people getting married?

Anyone who thinks our problems currently would lead to civil war or a breakup needs to go learn what REAL national problems look like.

This.

 

[First]

And they've done one heck of a job.

But much better than Paul/bots/et al, of course.

 

[CallMeJoe]

But credit where credit is due, that man can turn a phrase, and never was he so self descriptive when he he labeled himself as a nattering neigh-bob of negativism.

Nattering Nabobs of Negativism.

Credit where credit is due?
Then credit the phrase correctly to Bill Safire...

 

[bamacre]

But much better than Paul/bots/et al, of course.

Oh you're so right though. I mean, the "80% of Americans" who dominate aren't perfect, but I could only imagine if the other 20% of Americans got their way politically. It would be a disaster I imagine. First and foremost, we'd probably be in countless endless wars. We'd probably be trillions of dollars in debt, all the while, prices for necessities like houses, health care, education would be soaring. Probably have millions of people without health insurance. Personal savings would be near zero and personal debt would be some large number I cannot even fathom. Yeah, I don't even want to imagine this scenario anymore.

 

[First]

Oh you're so right though. I mean, the "80% of Americans" who dominate aren't perfect, but I could only imagine if the other 20% of Americans got their way politically. It would be a disaster I imagine. First and foremost, we'd probably be in countless endless wars. We'd probably be trillions of dollars in debt, all the while, prices for necessities like houses, health care, education would be soaring. Probably have millions of people without health insurance. Personal savings would be near zero and personal debt would be some large number I cannot even fathom. Yeah, I don't even want to imagine this scenario anymore.

Yeah, because clearly fringe ideologues on the left and right from the green party to the libertarian party have a much better track record of running the country. lmao.

 

[Jaskalas]

Since the federal government has betrayed Arizona's right to self defense, Pat Buchanan's words ring ever louder.