Grow tent under construction...finally

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bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
6,890
2,251
146
isnt weed legal in canada?
Without licensed Cannabis seeds or seedlings Mayne could face criminal charges. It's a common misconception that plants can't be patented. Believe it or not it is very similar to the movie, music, and software industry. Just because they are plants does not make them impervious to patent laws. Many types of plants are bred for certain traits then patented. The breeders then sell the license to propagators who in turn sell it to retail/wholesale establishments like greenhouses or dispensaries who then retail it to the public.
 

Luna1968

Golden Member
Mar 9, 2019
1,202
680
136
Without licensed Cannabis seeds or seedlings Mayne could face criminal charges. It's a common misconception that plants can't be patented. Believe it or not it is very similar to the movie, music, and software industry. Just because they are plants does not make them impervious to patent laws. Many types of plants are bred for certain traits then patented. The breeders then sell the license to propagators who in turn sell it to retail/wholesale establishments like greenhouses or dispensaries who then retail it to the public.

wtf? im going to have to read up on this.
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
6,890
2,251
146
wtf? im going to have to read up on this.
It's actually very interesting if you get into it. Breeders like Dummen-Orange and Proven Winner sell the license to their plants to propagators like Four Star Greenhouses and Malmborg Greenhouses. The propagators then have the right to take cuttings or seeds for these plants and propagate them by the thousands. They then sell them to retail greenhouses who retail them to the public or wholesalers who sell them to retailers like Lowes, Home Depot , and Walmart.

Edit:Ever wonder where that beautiful flowering shrub in your yard came from? Chances are good is was bred then patented and then licensed to propagators who then turn around and sell rooted plugs to the end grower, wholesaler, or retailer.
 
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Mayne

Diamond Member
Apr 13, 2014
8,838
1,374
126
I bought my seeds from an indian reserve...seeds aren't cheap. I can't even remember the strain now..which is really unfortunate because these plants are absolutely beautiful
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,031
45,266
136
Without licensed Cannabis seeds or seedlings Mayne could face criminal charges. It's a common misconception that plants can't be patented. Believe it or not it is very similar to the movie, music, and software industry. Just because they are plants does not make them impervious to patent laws. Many types of plants are bred for certain traits then patented. The breeders then sell the license to propagators who in turn sell it to retail/wholesale establishments like greenhouses or dispensaries who then retail it to the public.
I do think it's hilarious that the licenced industry in Canada got their start from these illegal seeds and now the only way to 'legally' grow plants is to purchase from them. It's a grey area and i really doubt that anyone would get in trouble for it (could be wrong, would love to see examples)
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,936
16,201
126
I do think it's hilarious that the licenced industry in Canada got their start from these illegal seeds and now the only way to 'legally' grow plants is to purchase from them. It's a grey area and i really doubt that anyone would get in trouble for it (could be wrong, would love to see examples)

I think the cops won't bother with home grow for personal use. large scale is a different issue.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,446
126
I totally agree. Give Mayne a coolcoin!

I'd need to have the Mods to approve that one, and they aren't exactly Mayne's biggest fans. I can't want to see the harvest shots and the giant celebratory blunt smoke at the end of this thing, though
 
Reactions: Mayne

Mayne

Diamond Member
Apr 13, 2014
8,838
1,374
126
I'd need to have the Mods to approve that one, and they aren't exactly Mayne's biggest fans. I can't want to see the harvest shots and the giant celebratory blunt smoke at the end of this thing, though

in approximately 4 weeks or so.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,434
12,605
126
www.anyf.ca
It is BS that it's even possible to patent plants. Thankfully it's something that's pretty hard to enforce though unless you're a large scale operation.

Monsanto is actually very bad for that, as a farmer you're not even allowed to reuse your own seeds from your own crops. It's ridiculous they can make rules like that.
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
6,890
2,251
146
It is BS that it's even possible to patent plants. Thankfully it's something that's pretty hard to enforce though unless you're a large scale operation.

Monsanto is actually very bad for that, as a farmer you're not even allowed to reuse your own seeds from your own crops. It's ridiculous they can make rules like that.
Monsanto has spent millions developing and breeding the genetics of their product why shouldn't they be allowed to protect that by filing a patent? Same goes for other breeders like I mentioned above such as Dummen-Orange and Proven Winner. They spend millions of dollars and years of time developing new varieties of plants for the landscape why would it not be ok for them to patent that plant when it is ready for mass production?
It helps protect their investment otherwise people like me could just order one 50 count cell tray from the licensed propagator and then I could take my own cuttings and root them and never pay again. How is that fair to the breeder and the propagator? How are they suppose to make a return on their investment if I just buy it once and then take cuttings from that point on and sell them?
 
Reactions: KMFJD

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,031
45,266
136
It is BS that it's even possible to patent plants. Thankfully it's something that's pretty hard to enforce though unless you're a large scale operation.

Monsanto is actually very bad for that, as a farmer you're not even allowed to reuse your own seeds from your own crops. It's ridiculous they can make rules like that.

so you're against all forms of ip, shit's just not that simple
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,434
12,605
126
www.anyf.ca
Monsanto has spent millions developing and breeding the genetics of their product why shouldn't they be allowed to protect that by filing a patent? Same goes for other breeders like I mentioned above such as Dummen-Orange and Proven Winner. They spend millions of dollars and years of time developing new varieties of plants for the landscape why would it not be ok for them to patent that plant when it is ready for mass production?
It helps protect their investment otherwise people like me could just order one 50 count cell tray from the licensed propagator and then I could take my own cuttings and root them and never pay again. How is that fair to the breeder and the propagator? How are they suppose to make a return on their investment if I just buy it once and then take cuttings from that point on and sell them?

Because it's retarded to apply artificial limitations to something that is otherwise possible to do. Farmers should have every right to do what they want with the seeds that they paid money for, and the plants that result from them. Imagine if lumber companies started applying restrictions saying you're not allowed to reuse scrap pieces because they want you to buy more lumber or not allowed to disassemble something you built to reuse the lumber. Once you pay money for a product you should be allowed to use it for what you want and if you can repair it or reuse it in any way then that should be your right.

IP laws are needed to some extent, but they are way too powerful these days and actually hinder more people than they help. They're out of control and getting more and more restrictive and only really designed to benefit megacorporations and encourage greed.

That said it's a good thing that it's hard to enforce this stuff in small scale. If I want to repair my own equipment (often illegal depending on the equipment), or replant seeds from a fruit I bought or build something for my own use even if the tech happens to be patented , it's going to be pretty hard for the government to really know I did it. For large scale stuff, then you just want to do more research and make sure whatever product you buy is not going to apply some stupid arbitrary limitations to you.
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
6,890
2,251
146
Because it's retarded to apply artificial limitations to something that is otherwise possible to do. Farmers should have every right to do what they want with the seeds that they paid money for, and the plants that result from them. Imagine if lumber companies started applying restrictions saying you're not allowed to reuse scrap pieces because they want you to buy more lumber or not allowed to disassemble something you built to reuse the lumber. Once you pay money for a product you should be allowed to use it for what you want and if you can repair it or reuse it in any way then that should be your right.

IP laws are needed to some extent, but they are way too powerful these days and actually hinder more people than they help. They're out of control and getting more and more restrictive and only really designed to benefit megacorporations and encourage greed.

That said it's a good thing that it's hard to enforce this stuff in small scale. If I want to repair my own equipment (often illegal depending on the equipment), or replant seeds from a fruit I bought or build something for my own use even if the tech happens to be patented , it's going to be pretty hard for the government to really know I did it. For large scale stuff, then you just want to do more research and make sure whatever product you buy is not going to apply some stupid arbitrary limitations to you.
I hear this reasoning a lot especially when it comes to plants. For whatever reason people want to believe that plants should be free to whoever wants them or because you paid for them once you are entitled to propagate them as many times as you want after the initial purchase. Some people I talk to don't even realize that plants can be patented. They just think that because plants are part of nature they should be free for everyone.

Unfortunately that just isn't how it works nor should it be. Agriscience has made tremendous strides over the past few decades and the breakthroughs were made possible because of the breeders ability to patent and therefore protect the genetics they spent millions on perfecting. Without that protection what incentive would there be for companies like Monsanto, Dow Du Pont, and Pioneer to continue researching new and better genetics?

The same can be said for the horticulture industry. What incentive would breeders like Proven Winner have if they spend millions perfecting the next great petunia if I could just buy it one time and then propagate it myself indefinitely without ever paying for it again. They would never see a return on their investment so why bother pushing the limits for better and better plants through better breeding techniques.

I have people come into my business and pinch cuttings off my plants and they think that it is ok. They believe that it is not stealing from me because it is a plant and therefore should be free. If I took that approach and just let everyone take their own cuttings for free from my plants after I took three months to grow them how long do you think I would be in business?

I think your disconnect between large scale operations and someone doing it in their back yard is clouding your judgment. Perhaps reading up on How there is no documented instance of Monsanto or any other biotech seed company suing a farmer for unknowingly reusing patented seeds would help clarify some of these issues.
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
33,932
1,113
126
So what happens if I patent a new tomato, the Chaotic42 and someone, with a license, plants it. It crossbreeds with an 'open source' tomato, call it 'A' and makes a new plant. Do I own Chaotic42A? Do I own half of it?
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
6,890
2,251
146
So what happens if I patent a new tomato, the Chaotic42 and someone, with a license, plants it. It crossbreeds with an 'open source' tomato, call it 'A' and makes a new plant. Do I own Chaotic42A? Do I own half of it?
That depends on you. Read the link I provided because it goes into detail on how the laws are defined by the courts and what you can and cannot do to protect your patented Chaotic42 tomato.

FWIW here is Monsantos stance on the subject but since the genetics of the tomato are yours you are free to pursue it in the courts how you see fit.
"It has never been, nor will it be, Monsanto policy to exercise its patent rights where trace amounts of our patented traits are present in farmers’ fields as a result of inadvertent means.
-Monsanto
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
33,932
1,113
126
Interesting, thanks for the link. I don't really know enough to have an opinion on this.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Nice!, has the LED lights affected your electric bill noticeably?. If this was allowed everywhere in the US 90% of illegal weed transactions would be gone..
 
Reactions: Mayne

Mayne

Diamond Member
Apr 13, 2014
8,838
1,374
126
Nice!, has the LED lights affected your electric bill noticeably?. If this was allowed everywhere in the US 90% of illegal weed transactions would be gone..

I wish I had an led light system....just using a 500 watt bulb...my hydro is free.
 

Mayne

Diamond Member
Apr 13, 2014
8,838
1,374
126
Sorry Zin lol...funny thing is I don't have any weed to smoke
 
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