[grrr]

[bas1c]

I've done it to some systems, and others I haven't. I hardly ever have the same hard drive in a system for more than a few months...so Windows is frequently reset / reinstalled.

In most cases, I keep Windows as vanilla as possible for testing purposes...but I'm making an exception in this case from now on.

That's fine, and within your right as a customer to say you don't agree with how they are executing things. I just think you should understand why Microsoft may have been motivated to approach it in the manner they did and see that it was unavoidable. They have a much larger user base and are targeted more.
Whether Linux or Mac OS be less susceptible to such vulnerabilities with the same user base is something we won't know until it happens. But the reality is they did this for the "greater" good at the sacrifice of situations like yours. With such a large user base, they are bound to piss someone off. They are in a lose-lose situation.

 

[Ichinisan]

I expect a huge change in operating systems in the near future. Even back in the days of Win9x, I expected the next big Windows OS to "start fresh" and run old software in a compatibility environment...enforcing isolation. I expected sandboxed, modular applications (like iOS apps). I expected the ability to suspend / preserve the state of a process. Alas, MS still won't start fresh with Windows...and it's really holding it back.

Today, programs still add countless files all over and random registry settings. How great would it be if you could simply right-click an Windows app and initialize all settings when it breaks? Nope...you have to *hope* that the program works well enough to uninstall itself. Malicious software usually isn't nice enough to give you an uninstaller.

Why can't we even get an API for software to register an update notification server so you don't have a half-dozen "update-checker" processes? (MS update, Java, Adobe, Google, etc...)

IE ActiveX plugins bugged me from the start. What's the fucking point of a plug-in if you can't delete / disable them? Far too late, you can finally do some of that. A software installer can still add plugins to IE without even generating a sensible prompt.

 

[Goosemaster]

I expect a huge change in operating systems in the near future. Even back in the days of Win9x, I expected the next big Windows OS to "start fresh" and run old software in a compatibility environment...enforcing isolation. I expected sandboxed, modular applications (like iOS apps). I expected the ability to suspend / preserve the state of a process. Alas, MS still won't start fresh with Windows...and it's really holding it back.

Today, programs still add countless files all over and random registry settings. How great would it be if you could simply right-click an Windows app and initialize all settings when it breaks? Nope...you have to *hope* that the program works well enough to uninstall itself. Malicious software usually isn't nice enough to give you an uninstaller.

Why can't we even get an API for software to register an update notification server so you don't have a half-dozen "update-checker" processes? (MS update, Java, Adobe, Google, etc...)

Go to bed.

 

[Ichinisan]

Go to bed.

U 1st.

 

[Goosemaster]

U 1st.

I just may.

 

[mjrpes3]

I just think you should understand why Microsoft may have been motivated to approach it in the manner they did and see that it was unavoidable.

How about the option to auto install updates except those that require a forced reboot?

I would rather leave auto install on because it's less hassle and saves me time, but I would prefer to be prompted before installing updates that require a forced reboot.

I'm pretty good about saving my work, but I am a human being and not infallible. I have been bitten by the forced reboot update a couple of times, and it's an annoyance that I think Microsoft can do a better job with.

Apple seems to have an answer in place; they've figured out how to save the state of an application, when closed or on system restart, so that it can be restored exactly as is. This would be an ideal solution for Windows forced reboots. I'm not suggesting this would ever happen, though.

 

[Ghiddy]

CZroe, not even gonna bother quoting that long ass post.

But all of what you said is still beside the point that the OP knew what would happen if he didn't save his work, and still tried to complain that he lost his work that he didn't save. Look at the Jiffy peanut butter analogy I provided, it applies directly to the OP. As do some of the automobile analogies others posted. In the Jiffy example, if someone goes ahead and makes Jiffy PB&J sandwiches after seeing the news reports, and dies from salmonella, would you not expect them to be ridiculed in an ATOT "Darwin Award" thread?

Yes, if you don't know something is going to happen you might be able to get mad about it (but even the noob users who don't know about the auto-restarts should be saving their work, because anything else can happen).

If you don't save your work you could choose to blame the cosmic rays and power outages, but then you'd just be an anal retentive nerd who lost his work. Everyone else, well we'll have our work and won't be popping veins in our foreheads trying to get mad at people/nature for how they "should have" done things. Only fools and crazy people expect the world to act differently than what they have observed.

The rest of us in this thread, we are a bit more pragmatic than that and work around the things in the world we don't necessarily have control over.

Just admit it man. The OP's post was a huge backfire.

 

[CZroe]

CZroe, not even gonna bother quoting that long ass post.

But all of what you said is still beside the point that the OP knew what would happen if he didn't save his work, and still tried to complain that he lost his work that he didn't save. Look at the Jiffy peanut butter analogy I provided, it applies directly to the OP. As do some of the automobile analogies others posted. In the Jiffy example, if someone goes ahead and makes Jiffy PB&J sandwiches after seeing the news reports, and dies from salmonella, would you not expect them to be ridiculed in an ATOT "Darwin Award" thread?

Yes, if you don't know something is going to happen you might be able to get mad about it (but even the noob users who don't know about the auto-restarts should be saving their work, because anything else can happen).

If you don't save your work you could choose to blame the cosmic rays and power outages, but then you'd just be an anal retentive nerd who lost his work. Everyone else, well we'll have our work and won't be popping veins in our foreheads trying to get mad at people/nature for how they "should have" done things. Only fools and crazy people expect the world to act differently than what they have observed.

The rest of us in this thread, we are a bit more pragmatic than that and work around the things in the world we don't necessarily have control over.

Just admit it man. The OP's post was a huge backfire.

No. Understand this: The whole so-called "backfire" is "beside the point." Tangental. Off-topic... no matter how much you and the others wanted to see the thread backfire and steered it that way through deliberate interpretive manipulation. Now do you see?

And the PB example is completely wrong. So far, only my car analogy is even close to right. What's wrong with your PB analogy? The PB wasn't intentionally made to contain salmonella and continued to be sold and consumed that way witha simple work-around. A closer example would be "We here are Micro-Jiff make our PB&J with a magical cancer repellent. Unfortunately, it may cause a bacterial infection if you don't always finish your antibacterial regimen by midnight on days when you chose to use it. Oh, and it's all you have to eat unless you pay a huge premium for Apple sauce or settle for tough Penguin meat. The only way to avoid the chance of bacterial infection with our product is to negate the cancer protection by microwaving it first. You may have a genuine interest in the cancer protection but not the risk of bacterial infection and, even though we once had a way to provide this with our old formula, we no longer offer it. Suck it up, spend the money on Apple sauce, or rough it with your Penguin jerky."

Of course, most think that the completely unnecessary auto-restart is a beneficial thing. *rolls eyes*

 

[qliveur]

Just admit that you made a mistake, OP.

It really isn't that hard to do...

Seriously, man ; save your dignity...

 

[CZroe]

Just admit that you made a mistake, OP.

It really isn't that hard to do...

Seriously, man ; save your dignity...

His dignity is fine.

 

[alkemyst]

lol at some of you that probably think you are mad haxors....

Click Start -> Run (or Windows Key +R if you are l33t)
type gpedit.msc, press enter.
Go to Local Computer Policy -> Computer Configuration -> Administrative Templates -> Windows Components -> Windows Update (may be time for some water if you are a bit overwhelmed)
Double-click on “No auto-restart with logged on users for scheduled Automatic Update installation”
Enable it! (HOLY CRAP, THIS IS HOW MAGNETS WORK!)
Reboot the computer, but I think just logging out and back on also works.

You still get the nag screens, but your peecee will not go sentient and reboot itself for you.


You guys may want to look into Macintoshes.

 

[alkemyst]

If you cheaped out on your Wind0z and don't have gpedit, I found this:

1.Open the Registry Edit
(WindowsKey + R, "regedit.exe")
(Remember to be careful! DON'T change anything unless you know exactly what you're doing!)
2.Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\AU
* Chances are, if you can't access gpedit.msc you'll be missing these keys! *
If keys WindowsUpdate\AU exist, go ahead to step 3!
OTHERWISE, continue through these indented steps...

1.Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows
2.(Make sure the above key is highlighted and) go to the edit menu and choose New > Key
3.Name the key WindowsUpdate
4.Now, repeat the above steps, except highlight WindowsUpdate and name the next keyAU
3.With WindowsUpdate\AU highlighted, create a new 32-bit DWORD calledNoAutoRebootWithLoggedOnUsers
4.Right click on your newly created value and give it a value data of 1 (hexadecimal)
5.Double check all the steps to make sure you did everything EXACTLY how I explained it
6.Close Registry Editor... You're FREE!

 

[Numenorean]

Care to prove it, or are you aiming for a record of 2 negative proof fallacies in a single thread? :hmm:

Hey fuckface, read the motherfucking thread you worthless piece of shit.

I am not here to hold your fucking hand and guide you through how to read and find this shit yourself, especially when it's already been posted for your.

Moron.



Out of line. You just got off vacation for doing the same things.

You'll learn one way or another. See you in two weeks


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[Numenorean]

In response to the umpteenth person who implied that you can postpone the restart forever, I said:



Though it could have been clearer, that was specifically talking to the folks who didn't believe that automatic updates can restart without your permission (yes, multiple people ITT believe the restart was imaginary). This is the exact opposite of those who believe the automatic restart has always been implied when you select "install updates automatically." [At one time, this didn't imply automatic restart. With no change in wording, now it DOES force restart on occasion. A recent Microsoft change from the last few years.]

Even more people behaved as if I had NO IDEA you could select "download, don't install." Of course, they couldn't possibly believe I don't know that. They're just stubborn fucks.

I have a valid complaint that the behavior has changed over the years and the reasoning behind it is wrong. It was extremely unfortunate that I allowed this to burn me, even though I knew about it, but it happened. I'm still bitching about the change.

The computer is a tool. You use it to accomplish a task. If I'm driving to the emergency room, I don't want my car to override my will and go to the dealer for an important adjustment.

By setting it to automatically download and install updates, you have given it permission to restart your computer if necessary. What do you not understand about that?

 

[Numenorean]

I never said those didn't work on home PCs. I guess I should have used bold on the part where you seemed to imply I was using a system at work.

:hmm:

The bolded part doesn't imply you were using a system at work.

It just means you should wait until you're done with what you need to do that day and then install and lock your system.

What do you not lock your home system? Do you not have a password on it?

 

[preslove]

His dignity is fine.

The OP is one of the stupidest posters in OT. The fact that you so irrationally and energetically defend him does not speak well of your intelligence, as well.

 

[Ichinisan]

Just admit that you made a mistake, OP.

It really isn't that hard to do...

Seriously, man ; save your dignity...

From the start. I've never said you should leave unsaved work open.

The problem is, you are fixated on the fact that it happened, so it becomes impossible to justifiably complain that there are problems with the way Microsoft does this.

So, if I slipped up and consumed Jiff PB while the recall was common knowledge, I have no right to complain that they had salmonella in it?

 

[Ichinisan]

By setting it to automatically download and install updates, you have given it permission to restart your computer if necessary. What do you not understand about that?

What do you not understand about the fact that it has not always been this way? It was a relatively recent change. Microsoft's wording never changed, so most users wouldn't know about it until it happens to them. That's the primary complaint. Lay the fuck off.

 

[Numenorean]

What do you not understand about the fact that it has not always been this way? It was a relatively recent change. Microsoft's wording never changed, so most users wouldn't know about it until it happens to them. That's the primary complaint. Lay the fuck off.

Uhh...it wasn't relatively recent at all. You also knew that this was the behavior, whether you agree with it or not, but you still had it configured to act this way.

Most users will find this out when they are sitting there working on stuff and the thing comes up and says hey your computer is going to restart unless you postpone, etc. There is some warning - yes it is after the fact but there is a warning. After this initial time, you're aware of it and can then correct the settings so that it doesn't do this if you wish.

Your main problem occurred because you did not save your work and you left your computer for an extended period of time. Anyone who does not save their work and then bitches about losing it is a moron.

 

[Ichinisan]

Uhh...it wasn't relatively recent at all.

~3 years out of the 16+ years I've used Windows...that's relatively recent.

You also knew that this was the behavior, whether you agree with it or not, but you still had it configured to act this way.

Yup. I sure did. That sucks.

Most users will find this out when they are sitting there working on stuff and the thing comes up and says hey your computer is going to restart unless you postpone, etc. There is some warning - yes it is after the fact but there is a warning. After this initial time, you're aware of it and can then correct the settings so that it doesn't do this if you wish.

You mean this dialog that doesn't say it will restart your system at all?

You know as well as I. Users are never presented with any indication that allowing automatic installation implies automatic restart. A few years back, it DID NOT imply that Windows could restart your computer automatically.

Your main problem occurred because you did not save your work and you left your computer for an extended period of time. Anyone who does not save their work and then bitches about losing it is a moron.

I agree. You should not leave unsaved work. I was forced to, and I got fucked.

Apparently I can't complain that Microsoft changed the behavior in recent years.

 

[Numenorean]

You mean this dialog that doesn't say it will restart your system at all?

Uhhh...what? It says right there in the dialog that it needs to restart your system, to save your work, and allows you to either click "restart" or "postpone".

Did your MEDICAL CONDITION make it impossible for you to read?


Oh and not 3 years...I think it's more like 7. Well unless you've been behind the times running Windows 2000 or something.

 

[zCypher]

There should be an option that says "don't remind me again" or "I will restart manually". Stealing the focus is also an annoyance that has plagued Windows for a long time too. I can't say that I've ever postponed the restart prompt long enough to have it restart anyway. Either I will save my work and restart within a short time, or the "4 hours" option will give me plenty of time if needed.

I definitely agree with the point against the wording, and if the functionality changed without notice, that is definitely bad too. However, I just can't imagine something like this ever happening to me. If it did, I'd likely blame myself first. Why? There are ridiculous flaws in so many places, it's my job to adapt and do my best to prevent being fucked by them. I'd rather spend a little bit of energy doing that instead of spending a lot of energy in frustration losing important data.

It's happened a few times that I've restarted the system because of a focus stealing popup, and I lost whatever was open at the time. One of the best solutions already stated in the thread is to use a program that saves automatically. Is there a GOOD reason not to? I love notepad too, but you need to accept the risks if you use it.

 

[Ichinisan]

You mean this dialog that doesn't say it will restart your system at all?

Uhhh...what? It says right there in the dialog that it needs to restart your system, to save your work, and allows you to either click "restart" or "postpone".

Did your MEDICAL CONDITION make it impossible for you to read?

Playing dumb?

Restart your computer to finish installing important updates

- An instruction telling ME what to do. Not warning me that it will do this on its own. Even if you postpone this dialog, it will still restart on its own when it hits that time of the night...even while you're working.

Remind me...

It reminds me that I need to restart. I'm perfectly fine with this reminder popping-up repeatedly...as long as it doesn't restart while I'm working (which has happened).

The wording was done this way even before Microsoft made the change and allowed forced restarts.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally Posted by MotionMan

What notice is that? I am not familiar with it. Can you link to a pic of one?

Thanks.

MotionMan

I did mention it earlier in the thread. Consider it independent confirmation.

I would prefer to see it for myself. Linky?

MotionMan

 

[bobdole369]

This is still going on? Wow. Epic.