[grrr]

[bobdole369]

I didn't bother to mention this...

Except in cases where it's far too annoying, I keep most settings at "recommended" / default selections because I do telephone support and I want to be intimately familiar with the expected behavior of a typical customer's PC. I can help most customers navigate through obscure menus blindly...even for antiquated operating systems.

Most phone support folks can do this. People used to come to my cube to ask where win95 settings were and I just have to look them up in my brain. Not a big deal, though eventually our software devs came up with an emulator of sorts that showed lots of old shit.

 

[Ghiddy]

Even if that were true (I did), do you really think that means anything? Look at what he is ACTUALLY SAYING and stop jumping to stupid conclusions.

It does mean something, and is not a stupid conclusion.

OP claims to know more than anyone here about windows/IT, yet didn't realize the implications how how he had his auto-update settings configured. Several of his posts imply that he has known for several years that Vista/Win7 automatically restart, yet he still chose the configuration option to enable the auto-updates (only to satisfy his "obsessive" need to have the latest updates, in his own words).

I get that you are saying that MS made a bad decision when they made restarts automatic, and I agree with that, but it doesn't preclude the OP from being full of fail. He should have saved his work, and has no case to blame MS for his decisions not to. Especially given that he most likely knew that auto-updates enabled = restarts. If he didn't know about the auto restarts until now, he would have said so by now.

 

[Lifted]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that pop up window where you can select 10 min, 1 hour, 4 hours to postpone, won't actually restart your comp if you just leave the pop-up there.

The 10min/1hr/4hr thing is just the interval of when windows will bug you again about it. I think you can just leave that window up and it will not auto-restart.

Again, someone correct me if that is wrong.

That is wrong.

when Windows Update automatically installs an update that needs a reboot, it proceeds with an automatic reboot. In order to make the updating process more convenient for you by preventing disruptions to your work, WU defaults to installing updates (and subsequently rebooting your computer) at 3:00AM. Additionally, if updates are installed while you happen to be using the computer, and a reboot is required, Windows Update notifies you with this dialog

http://blogs.technet.com/b/mu/archive/2008/10/02/windows-update-and-automatic-reboots.aspx

Of course, all of the ATOT know-it-all's knew this (even the ones that said this doesn't happen over and over and over...).

Clearly Microsoft couldn't find the space in the Windows Update settings page for this key piece of information, so they rely on the world at large to go to Technet to learn the behavior of Windows Update.

 

[CZroe]

Pretty sure this is a user fail. There is no reason not to set it to DOWNLOAD automatically and ASK before installing. This prevents any automated error in the installation process and/or lost time.

That and if you weren't a cheapass and did things in word instead of notepad it automatically saves drafts every few minutes to a temp file and restores in the event of a loss of power, end of application, restart, whatever.

PEBKAC.

Word also uses a LOT more resources for something you leave open while you work on and do other things.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

That is wrong.

http://blogs.technet.com/b/mu/archive/2008/10/02/windows-update-and-automatic-reboots.aspx

Of course, all of the ATOT know-it-all's knew this (even the ones that said this doesn't happen over and over and over...).

Who said that? What was said was that if you select "Automatic download and prompt for install," you can delay the automatic reboot once the patch install was done.

 

[Lifted]

Who said that?

Hmmm, perhaps it was the person I was replying to and quoted in my post. :hmm:

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Hmmm, perhaps it was the person I was replying to and quoted in my post. :hmm:

No, I mean this:

Of course, all of the ATOT know-it-all's knew this (even the ones that said this doesn't happen over and over and over...).

:\

 

[JEDIYoda]

Don't get pissed off at Microsoft just because you don't know how to configure a computer.

Beat me to it....

 

[Numenorean]

The OP does have a point, though I think at this point ATOT is trolling the OP so hard, and he's gone batshit insane already, that nobody will agree with him even if they know 100% he is correct. A few people here get it. A computer should not restart without your approval when there is no way for an average user to know that the computer MAY restart.

Nobody here can deny that fact that NOWHERE in the Windows Update settings page does it say "The computer may automatically restart after updates are installed".

Numenorean, who appears to have gone just as batshit insane as the OP, hasn't acknowledged this fact, or the fact that gpedit does not exist in home editions of Windows.

Uh HELLO MCFLY! He is not 100% correct at all. He isn't even 10% correct.

gpedit is just ONE way of correcting this. The other way is to edit the registry, which is possible on ANY VERSION OF WINDOWS 7! If you bother to even TRY to fix the issue by doing a simple Google search you could find this answer quite easily.

 

[Numenorean]

I know the Group Policy tweak...so please stop repeating it.

You still seem to think I'm talking about my work computer. I'm not. I'm talking about my home computer. My end-of-the-day is when I can't keep my eyes open any more and I have to roll over to the bed. It could be 0100, 0200, 0300...

I seriously don't want to delay the installation part of the update at all. Many important updates DON'T require a reboot and I'd like to get them immediately. I'm always a target for probing hackers because I have a static IP address and I'm always on various IRC channels...but never been exploited (knock on wood).

I'm almost hoping that someone DOES reveal some kind of zero-day exploit by pwning my obsessively-updated system.

Are you fucking DENSE?

I don't think you're talking about your work computer. Do you think that gpedit or registry settings don't work on home computers too? You aren't making any sense.

If you KNOW about the tweak WHY DON'T YOU USE IT?

 

[Lifted]

Uh HELLO MCFLY! He is not 100% correct at all. He isn't even 10% correct.

gpedit is just ONE way of correcting this. The other way is to edit the registry, which is possible on ANY VERSION OF WINDOWS 7! If you bother to even TRY to fix the issue by doing a simple Google search you could find this answer quite easily.

Rage much?

Do you not realize that the problem is not that it can't be configured, but that NOWHERE in Windows Update settings OR the associated help files does it say automatic updates may restart the computer?

Of course somebody can google an answer, and that appears to be your specialty. That doesn't help until after the problem has reared it's ugly head, now does it?

 

[CZroe]

I see even more idiots who think that the "postpone" option, even if it is unlimited, matters when the user could be asleep or in the hospital, as the OP was (see his other thread). Even more people don't seem to get why the OP is challenging the "PEBKAC" insult that is getting thrown around. His whole point is that it happens WITHOUT user instruction/intervention. Just because a user CAN intervene doesn't mean that they ALWAYS can and doesn't mean it's OK to make such behavior default without explicitly warning the user, especially when they have grown accustom to the old way and know that behaving differently would be asking for data loss (illogical).

Exactly. To install the updates, it must reboot your machine.

/thread

No, to FINISH installing them *the machine* must sometimes be rebooted. *IT* doesn't have to be the one to do it, especially when the machine will often be rebooted in the course of normal use. It is completely different than a prompt saying that they are ready to install, which a user may ignore forever and therefore never get the important update.

The OP does have a point, though I think at this point ATOT is trolling the OP so hard, and he's gone batshit insane already, that nobody will agree with him even if they know 100% he is correct. A few people here get it. A computer should not restart without your approval when there is no way for an average user to know that the computer MAY restart.

Nobody here can deny that fact that NOWHERE in the Windows Update settings page does it say "The computer may automatically restart after updates are installed".

Numenorean, who appears to have gone just as batshit insane as the OP, hasn't acknowledged this fact, or the fact that gpedit does not exist in home editions of Windows.

Also, the fact that it once behaved differently conditioned users to continue expecting that behavior after they changed it. At one time, enabling automatic installation in XP would install them automatically and, if they required a restart, it would only PROMPT you, as it should, unless you specifically configured the PC to restart. When they changed this, there was NOTHING indicating the change. At the very least, if a program refuses to close because it contains unsaved information, it should fall back to a prompt unless you specifically over-ride that with policies to force them to close. This is because the VAST MAJORITY of users are home users with REPEATED assurances from MS that their PC is more stable and reliable than ever and that they should not be afraid of the OS being to blame for any seemingly-random reboot.

 

[Numenorean]

Only Numenorean mentioned the solution (Group Policy tweak), which contradicted some of the other things he said and validated my rant.

If you have Win7 Home Premium, having automatic updates enabled risks automatic restarts unless you edit the registry.
Otherwise, you have to run gpedit.msc and find the right option (out of hundreds).

Unless a computer is part of a corporate domain, the option needs to be right there where you enable automatic updates: "Do not allow automatic restart."

Nothing I have said contradicted anything else.

The only person saying contradictory things here is you. And it's because you don't understand what you're doing.

 

[CZroe]

Nowhere in my computer manual does it tell me that a power outage will cause my computer to turn off.

Nowhere does it tell me that unplugging the keyboard will result in keyboard input not being capture.

Nowhere in my monitor manual does it tell me that I need to turn my monitor on to use it.

Nowhere in the RAM packaging did it state I needed to plug the RAM into the motherboard to use it.

Weird though. In every software manual I get, it tells me to save my work or else it can be lost. Hmmmmm... methinks that the OP wouldn't have paid much attention to directions if they were spelled out for him since he didn't FUCKING SAVE HIS WORK!


This sounds like a problem my 7 year old daughter ran across recently. She was doing subtraction and didn't borrow numbers (e.g. 22 - 19) and when asked why she said "Well, the instructions didn't tell me to borrow." I explained, to my second grader, that with subtraction the borrowing is implied; it is a rule and she won't be told to borrow, she just has to when appropriate. Now she understands and borrows properly. My 7 year has more of an ability to apply the notion of an implicit rule than this IT professional?

You would fail my program design and user interface class. It is unacceptable behavior to cause preventable data loss based ona user's non-response without prior notification and approval. Period. YOU FAIL. F-

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Do you not realize that the problem is not that it can't be configured, but that NOWHERE in Windows Update settings OR the associated help files does it say automatic updates may restart the computer?

That is the problem I have, particularly during Windows setup. IIRC, MS isn't clear at all on what constitutes "Recommended Settings," though I don't recall for sure if they link to a description or not.

 

[CZroe]

I think MS assumes that "install" might include "restart".

And yet, at one time, they didn't. Changing their definition without telling the users is inexcusable.

 

[Numenorean]

I didn't bother to mention this...

Except in cases where it's far too annoying, I keep most settings at "recommended" / default selections because I do telephone support and I want to be intimately familiar with the expected behavior of a typical customer's PC. I can help most customers navigate through obscure menus blindly...even for antiquated operating systems.

lol you're a telephone support monkey. No wonder you don't understand what's going on.

 

[mb]

No, to FINISH installing them *the machine* must sometimes be rebooted. *IT* doesn't have to be the one to do it, especially when the machine will often be rebooted in the course of normal use. It is completely different than a prompt saying that they are ready to install, which a user may ignore forever and therefore never get the important update.

So you say no, but then you agree with me and basically say the same thing I did..

Some updates aren't installed until the computer is rebooted. That's the same as saying, as you put it, they haven't finished installing until the machine is rebooted.
The updates the OP wanted automatically installed required a reboot. So, as the OP gave permission to have them automatically installed, the machine was also automatically rebooted so they could be installed. If it did not reboot, they were not installed. He wanted them installed, and they were.

 

[CVSiN]

I didn't bother to mention this...

Except in cases where it's far too annoying, I keep most settings at "recommended" / default selections because I do telephone support and I want to be intimately familiar with the expected behavior of a typical customer's PC. I can help most customers navigate through obscure menus blindly...even for antiquated operating systems.

Well the truth comes out.. he is a first level IT Phone monkey.. big surprise.

talk to me in 20 years when you gain some experience.

 

[Numenorean]

Rage much?

Do you not realize that the problem is not that it can't be configured, but that NOWHERE in Windows Update settings OR the associated help files does it say automatic updates may restart the computer?

Of course somebody can google an answer, and that appears to be your specialty. That doesn't help until after the problem has reared it's ugly head, now does it?

It's been this way for a long time now. The OP claimed to be an IT expert, but for some reason also claims he couldn't figure this out.

I never said that for an average, uninformed user that this couldn't be a surprise.

For someone who is an IT expert as the OP claimed, there should be no excuses for not knowing about this and how to fix it so it does what you want. That is what is going on here, not what you are trying to twist it into.

 

[Lifted]

Well the truth comes out.. he is a first level IT Phone monkey.. big surprise.

talk to me in 20 years when you gain some experience.

Now ATOT has gone from trolling to being downright condescending. People like you make make me hate this place.

 

[CZroe]

So you claim you were aware of the options, yet still chose the one that would result in automatic updates, and still didn't save your work -> your fault

if you didn't know that the auto-updates would auto-restart, yet claim to know more than anyone about this stuff -> your fault

not saving your work, no matter what your level of understanding is regarding windows updates, because other stuff could go wrong -> your fault

not using apps that auto-save, like MS Word, or cloud based stuff like google tasks which take care of auto-save for you -> your fault

OP, YOUR FAULT.

YOUR FAULT, OP.

YOUR FAULT.

He didn't know he was going to suddenly end up in the hospital. I guess you think your grandma will know ahead of time that she's about to fall down the stairs, break her hip, and end up in intensive care so she can hurry back to the computer and change the setting first (God help her if it happens on the way there!)? There are many LOGICAL problems with an auto-install going hand-in-hand with an auto-restart which is PRECISELY why MS did not force auto restarts with installs at one time. Why they suddenly changed it without changing the selectable options is simple: They are retarded. Don't tell me that any thought went into it. Whoever was in charge of designing that specific aspect of user/OS relations failed and failed HARD, just like the guys who seemed to forget what the startup animations were good for when they peppered Windows Vista with long delays on black screens at installation. *rolls eyes* Some idiot decided to implement Aero without vectors or scaling of older applications so we still have applications that break when you change Windows DPI settings that can't just be quickly toggled. The DPI functions are still functionally not usable for the vast majority of users who may want it, like home theater PC users, so it was wasted effort and a stupid call. Same goes for the invisible control box in Vista/7 with no replacement functionality for it's additional Win95C+ functionality.

 

[Soundmanred]

I've let that little box in the lower right corner sit there for a day or two asking me if I want to reboot or wait.
That's what I told it to do when I installed windows.

 

[Lifted]

The OP claimed to be an IT expert, but for some reason also claims he couldn't figure this out.

He did? Where? And even if he did, so what? Does anyone know everything? I find most condescending twits who think this are usually Google "IT experts" who know just as much as the first 10 results can give them.

 

[Numenorean]

He did? Where? And even if he did, so what? Does everyone know everything? I find most condescending twits who think this are usually Google "IT experts" who know just as much as the first 10 results can give them.

Yes he said that. He also said that he knew more about this than anyone here. He also said he was an elitist prick basically.

So do you see why he's getting flack now?