Grrrrr

[Dutchman2000]

A forum member over at DPC pointed me to a bit of your last newsletter. Since I do not receive the letter myself it is unverified but I take his word for it that it is from the newsletter.

Dump DPC-OGR started DPC
First posting: Dec/04/2000 by Stappel
Here the DPC are announcing their mega flush in the OGR project for Monday, Dec. 4th. They hope to get to the No. 1 position. The other topic in this thread is the slowing down of stub-issues by DNet. They invented the rumor that we are trying to get all remaining stubs. As a countermeasure, they are planning to cheat and drain all the keyservers of DNet and our Team, just to ensure we don't reach the No. 1 spot. What else can you expect from a team, that has no honor and respect for other teams. Hereby, I call upon all TA-members, that are working on the OGR project, to get OGR-stubs from the DPC proxies, if none are available from other places. The DPC-proxy addresses are:
proxy.dsmarty.com
energy.keyserver.org
wildhagen.keyserver.org
victorb.dsmarty.com
dutchman.keyserver.org

Well I must say that I haven't seen so much misinterpretation, plain lies and insult in such a small paragraph. I don't care who wrote it and wether he can actually read Dutch or not, but I am offended by the presumption that us enlarging our OGR buffers to survive a short dry-out (we knew when and were new blocks would be (re)submitted) is belony. The part that really stings me is the sugestion that we would do such a thing just to keep Team Anandtech of the first place. Who do you think we are, a vengefull cult or something ? Tought in the finer art of sabotage by 007 himself ? Plotting campaigns and covert operations to attack our enemy's ?

Feel free to have an opinion on our team even if you think we are a team that has 'no honor and respect for other teams'. But don't ever tell your teammates to misuse our keyservers (and yes, dutchman.keyserver.org is MY keyserver) just because you THINK you know something.

 

[wildhagen]

\My proxy (wildhagen.keyserver.org) is also being accused. I fetched only 100 stubs, is that too much ???? (EDIT: I fetched them directly from d.net, NOT from one of TA's own proxies.

We're not allowed to flame YOU, but YOU are allowed to flame US ? What's that for sick mentality ?

I demand a public apology to the DPC as a whole, not only to me.

 

[TGEN]

On top of that, some of the proxies listed don't even have OGR proxies... Who has made all this up? Who's setting us up? (in a way of speech). This is bad for the competition, fellow ditributed.net participants... for what reason? A teamban for DPC? It's like 30 meters of concrete in front of me, I can't see why...

TGEN

 

[office boy]

http://gathering.tweakers.net/showtopic/82004

 

[Fardringle]

Nobody accused any particular proxy of cheating, however, members of your team started a rumor that we were attempting to hoard all of the available stubs, while at the same time, members of your team were taking stubs from our team's proxies.

The author of that particular paragraph merely said that if all available proxies dried out except for the DPC proxies, then our team members should get stubs from your team's proxies, since your team had taken some from ours. He then listed the DPC proxies he knew of.

I admit that accusing you of cheating without proof is rather harsh, (maybe there is proof, maybe there isn't...) but taking stubs from your proxies when your team took them from ours is only fair.

 

[BurntKooshie]

I've not been getting the newsletter because my email is down....and I haven't bothered to check it. I have a few things to say on this.

For one, well, it is an AnandTech newsletter...and I think the DPC should respect that.

For another...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH! WTF? We're supposed to drain the DPC's keyservers just so we stay ahead? Maybe if they SAY WE CAN USE THEM, like Sysopt offered. But to willfully drain theirs just to stay ahead? Bah! I think that's pretty damned low, and I can't believe you guys would do that without asking them first! Why not find the proxies of other teams while we're at it!? Why not take down [H]OCP? Or the one that aceshardware, jc's, and others use? Oh yeah, becaue they aren't our "arch rivals"

I cannot believe that! that's absurd!

I can't read dutch. Oh well. I don't know if the link about them "trying to drain all known proxies with OGR-stubs, just to prevent TA of becoming No. 1". Who cares if its true? Why retaliate? If its not true, we lose out because we look horrible, as I think we do now! If it IS true...we get what....Oooooh, another day at Number one. Great guys. Great. I'm ashamed.

Paul Mazzucco

Ashamed member of TA

 

[TGEN]

Fardringle:

It would be fair only if we had drained your's, but we haven't. So there's no use in saying that you can? I mean, why should we drain your proxies for stopping your 'rampage', if the competition will be lost? It seems to me that a few DPC's are radical and a few TA'ers are too. The only difference is, the DPC Radicals don't use 'mass-media' to send out their opinion, but in fact the TA does by putting it into the newsletter... this is all political stuff, but it has to to keep the peace between the two 'enemies'.

TGEN

 

[Russ]

Dutchman2000,



<< The part that really stings me is the sugestion that we would do such a thing just to keep Team Anandtech of the first place. >>



Why would that sting you? That's the goal, bubba. It's competition and frankly, I'd be disappointed in the DPC's if you didn't try to keep us out of first place. I'd do it to you in a heartbeat.



<< Tought in the finer art of sabotage by 007 himself ? Plotting campaigns and covert operations to attack our enemy's ? >>



Damn, man, I sure as hell hope so! This is war, and the DPC are fine warriors. As far as I'm concerned you are entitled to use every conceivable legal strategy at your disposal; as are we.

Carry on.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Pinball]

Well Russ.. thanks for warning us.
Where i come from this kind of actions (like taking all ogr stubs) are considered cheating and unfair. In most games you will be punished or disqualified for obstructing other parties.
Therefor, if either of our teams would even consider this, i would be really disapointed.

What strikes me most however, is the casual tone in which this would be something &quot;[you can] expect from a team, that has no honor and respect for other teams.&quot;

To whoever wrote the above quote: please try to THINK before you write.

 

[imported_Thunder]

Good grief... :disgust:

I've got to agree with Burnt Kooshie here...

I really do hate to be critical of the newsletter and it's authors since it's otherwise been a fine and informative effort, but... It would appear to me that this author took a bunch of unsubstantiated heresay, rumor and general hysteria and turned it into

<< What else can you expect from a team, that has no honor and respect for other teams. Hereby, I call upon all TA-members, that are working on the OGR project, to get OGR-stubs from the DPC proxies >>



Huh?! What the heck?! Uhhhh, reality check here. D.Net never even completely ran out of stubs, our proxies never ran out of stubs and I know I never had a problem getting any stubs. This was a total &quot;non-event&quot;.

I don't see any evidence at all, let alone a resonable amount of proof that the DPC's did anything dishonorable or disrespectful and yet the newsletter is portraying them in this light?!? I, for one, think we either need to back up what was said, or offer an immediate apology.

... and as for Russ's comments,

Russ, are you in the habit of running around putting out fires with gasoline?!?! sabotage...? SABOTAGE?!? WTF?!? Good Lord man, I can't tell if you're kidding or not, but you sound completely serious (and completely out of your skull, off the deep end insane I might add). I'll tell you RIGHT NOW that I will do many things to win in the stats... I'll build myself faster computers, I'll assimilate and I'll tend to my herd to make sure it puts out it's full potential. However, I will never resort to being the kind of low-life, bottom-feeding, slime-sucking scum that would actually undermine another team or individual to &quot;get ahead&quot;. This is not WAR, it's a friggin' distributed computing project. If I ever see members of Team Anandtech resorting to sabotage and it's actually condoned by other members, it would be the ONE THING that would make me pack up my herd and take it ELSEWHERE.

I suppose I feel a bit better now for saying what I have, but this thread has still left a bad taste in my mouth.

-Brian

 

[RaySun2Be]

The newsletter paragraph was a direct comment about this DPC forum topic: Dump DPC-OGR Started

Unfortunately, I don't read Dutch, but I did notice some references to Team Anandtech in that thread. A forum topic is as much and more of a &quot;mass-media&quot; and public than a team newsletter.

Would the DPC (or a TA Dutch member) care to translate that thread and TA references for us so we can judge as to the validity of the newsletter statement for ourselves?

I do know that in the discussions of the problems getting OGR stubs I was involved in, no one ever talked about hoarding stubs from other teams, but rather letting everyone know which proxys had stubs available. And it is reasonable to figure that if a known shortage is coming, that every team would increase their proxy buffers in order to ride out the shortage. That isn't &quot;hoarding&quot;, that's making sure PCs are being fed. No different than me setting my buffers to allow 4 days worth of work if I know my connection to keyservers will be down for 4 days.

I would prefer to hold all judgements and apologies until all facts are in.

 

[Kilowatt]

<< I haven't seen so much misinterpretation, plain lies and insult in such a small paragraph >>

You all talk like that about us at GOT. And don't tell me you don't, I've seen it.

<< Plotting campaigns and covert operations to attack our enemy's ? >>

I guess, if that's the way you want to play.
Thanks for the idea.

<< I demand a public apology to the DPC as a whole, not only to me >>

So, We as a team (who didn't write it) need to apologize for the one that did? NOT! Get a life! Your team has those kind of members also.

Maybe it insulted you, but it made me laugh.
I couldn't care one way or the other about OGR, so it makes me no difference.

Grow up, you are falling into their trap, and doing just what they want, crying about it.

 

[JHutch]

I remember getting the Newsletter, but I must have skimmed over that part because I do not remember it.

And I want to apologize to the DPC. Even though those comments were never meant to reach your ears, it is little excuse for the slander and half-truths printed there.

DPC may have some hot-heads (and goodness knows we've got a few over here) but I'd be real surprised to hear of you guys stealing our proxies' stubs. And I'd be ashamed to hear that we did that to you.

And Russ, stealing from another team's proxy is not &quot;all's fair.&quot; That's just plain cheating...

Ray, I agree that hoarding up on what stubs are available is fine. It is when the newsletter suggested pulling from THEIR proxies that I think it crossed the line. We've gotten pissed when we discovered none TA members submitted to Mika's. It isn't right, and to suggest doing it was wrong.

JHutch

 

[Russ]

Thunder-,

Before you flip out all over the place, maybe you should re-read my post. Do make an effort this time, though, to try and comprehend it. Sheesh.

JHutch,



<< And Russ, stealing from another team's proxy is not &quot;all's fair.&quot; >>



It becomes &quot;fair&quot; when it is a like kind response.

Russ, NCNE

 

[office boy]

Do unto others as they do unto you eh?

Nice, real grownup like...

 

[Russ]

<< Do unto others as they do unto you eh?

Nice, real grownup like... >>



As opposed to what? Standing there and letting them bitch-slap you over and over? It's a good thing we don't have pacifist ninnies like you running the military. We'd have a different national language every decade while you stood by and said &quot;oh, but we don't want to respond to this attack&quot;.

You're the one that needs to grow up, bunky.

Russ, NCNE

 

[office boy]

Whatever, all anyone needs to do is look at you sig to realize how sorry you really are.

[edited out]

It's not war, your liberties, life, and freedom are not at stake. It is a game.
You would be the kid with the sharpened metal spikes sliding into a base with your feet up in baseball wouldn't you?

 

[imported_Thunder]

Russ,

I read your post carefully the first time. To humor you, I re-read it very carefully. Let's see...

First you make light of Dutchman2000's concerns by saying that they shouldn't be &quot;stung&quot;. Your reasoning for this is unclear, but I think it's either because you think they did cheat and therefore should not be bothered by the truth or else you think they shouldn't care because you'd do anything to them and therefore are just as bad. Then again, you put in a &quot;smiley&quot;, so maybe you're just kidding.

Then you say that you hope that they are planning campaigns to attack TA, because you'd attack them. This point is a bit confusing because you use the words &quot;legal strategy&quot; and attack in the same breath, which is rather of an oxymoron. Then again, you put in a &quot;smiley&quot;, so maybe you're just kidding.

So what was it that I was supposed &quot;comprehend&quot; from all of my &quot;effort&quot; that would make me change my mind? I'm afraid that you're going to have to be a bit less obtuse, as obviously I'm too thick-headed to glean the subtle nuances of what you're saying.

-Brian

 

[Kilowatt]

<< You would be the kid with the sharpened metal spikes in baseball wouldn't you? >>

LOL, as opposed to what? the one on the receiving end of those spikes? LOL

 

[mechBgon]

<< What else can you expect from a team, that has no honor and respect for other teams. >>

I got the newsletter but I guess I didn't really read it, because this is news to me. I am not responsible for any part of the newsletter, but I offer my apologies to the members of the Dutch Power Cows for this kind of trash talk. I assure you that I don't agree with it; in fact, I am humiliated to be associated with it, even indirectly.

 

[GeoffS]

Well, this sure has sucked the fun out of contributing to this project...

 

[Russ]

office boy,

You are a perfect example of why the DPCs are kicking the crap out of Team AnandTech. If you didn't join to win, why don't you just quit?

BTW, I've never been a member of the NRA, but if I were, I would be proud of it. Are you familiar with the word &quot;pride&quot;? Look it up, and see if you can find some.

Thunder-,

Unlike the aforementioned, who appropriately has the word &quot;boy&quot; in his handle, you have earned some respect around here, so I'll explain my post.

It was meant as a compliment to the DPCs. It was meant to tell them that I happen to UNDERSTAND what they are trying to accomplish. That I admire their combat and strategic abilities.

THEY are winners because they don't let &quot;feelings&quot; get in the way of their goal. They stay focused, and move forward at all times. There are some here who would do well to pay attention

Russ, NCNE

 

[Russ]

BTW, lest anyone assume otherwise, I also find the line &quot;What else can you expect from a team, that has no honor and respect for other teams.&quot; unacceptable. BUT, that is the only thing that about the newsletter that is objectionable. The rest is simply a call to arms.

Russ, NCNE

 

[office boy]

Proud of what? Fighting dirty? Printing unfounded rumors as fact? This whole thread is pathetic. There is nothing here to be proud of, including the Borg, and especially you Russ.
My handle may be office boy but at least I can retain some civility, and dignity.

 

[imported_Thunder]

Russ,

Okay, at least I understand now what you were trying to say. I'll leave it to the members of DPC to decide if they consider your words to be &quot;complimentary&quot; or not.

-Brian