Grrrrr

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DSmarty

Member
Apr 12, 2000
120
0
0
Sorry guys,

But I really got pissed off while reading that newsletter.
Okay, you have to assimilate more, and maybe you have to use a bit more "aggresive" language.
But the newsletter is one big lie about us, and that's what I don't like.
We never did drain DNet's proxies nor your proxies!
Please explain why we are disrespectful and why we don't have any honor for other teams?
As far as I know I never disrespected any TA-member, I even helped some of your members configuring their clients.
Why are my proxies in that list? proxy.dsmarty.com / victorb.dsmarty.com
I only fetched 8000 stubs, just because more people start using my proxy for OGR (it was a RC5-only proxy before december).. and to prevent my proxy from being empty.

In my opinion you owe us an apology, you are a great rival, but please keep the fight honoust!
We'll try and beat you, but just by gaining more machines and not by sabotaging your proxy's or whatsoever

Greetings DSmarty, proud DPC proxy-administrator and crewmember

 

RaySun2Be

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
16,565
6
71
*sigh*

Here we go again. Another team points out some disparaging remarks and makes a comment or two, and we spend most of the thread fighting with each other, tearing each other down.

We finally get a front page article on Anandtech, and this is what they get to see.

I too must have skimmed over or ignored that paragraph in the newsletter, but it was a direct reference to a topic on the DPC forum.

I also find objectionable the "What else can you expect from a team, that has no honor and respect for other teams" comment, and again, it was in reference to a topic on the DPC forum. Not to defend the comment, but it would help to put it into context of the DPC comments it was referring too.

Could someone PLEASE state exactly what was said about TA in that DPC topic for us Americans that can't read Dutch to help put the comments in context?

I've heard a lot about the newsletter statement, but nothing concerning the DPC Topic it was directly referring too.

DPC Topic
 

DSmarty

Member
Apr 12, 2000
120
0
0
The thread was about a OGR-megaflush, some people then noticed DNET's proxy's were running out of stubs, and there was, indeed, a rumour that both TA and /. members were leeching the remaining stubs.
We did fetch some too, not too many, and certainly not all.
For me, this was because my proxy was just starting to serve OGR-people and I had to get some stubs.

The remaining part of the thread was about subteam-flush-records and inner-DPC competition.
 

ikke

Junior Member
Sep 12, 2000
21
0
0
I'm the stappel how started the thread on GOT. My goal was to dump all saved OGR units on one day to get DPC-OGR on number 1 spot for a day. We OGR-ers of DPC are not many, there are about 50 active DPC members who do OGR. So number 1 for a day was the goal.

As starter of the original thread : sorry.
(when do we start the next OGR dump?)
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,863
68
91
www.bing.com
why are DPC getting all upset about what someone wrote in the TA Newsletter???

This is a mailing sent to people who signed up for it, its supposed to be for TA members, why on earth does a DPC care what the heck it says?

I can see them getting upset if we made some posts in the Forums with the so called "Trash Talk" but to me, to be trash talk, it has to be said to the person/people you are talking about.

And i dont consider any of what was suggested there cheating, hooking up to a known proxy is not cheating, getting a hold of someones computer and chaninging thier Dnet.ini file without thier permission would be cheating.

We all know DPC's keep an eye on our proxies for flushes. I am a member of the TA mini team the Federation, we have a proxy, its wherabouts are kept secret, where it flushes to is also kept secret, there are reasons for that.

This talk about OGR hoarding is really starting to sound like a cold war, if you guys dont want it, then propose an arms treaty or whatever, or else block IPs on the proxies, or hide them. just play the game, and dont complain.
 

imported_Thunder

Senior member
Oct 14, 1999
509
0
0
Train,

The newsletter is available to anyone who goes to our web site and clicks on the front page link "News Letter", not just from the mailing list.

Just like the Dcypher.Net "news" page is only a click away from the front page of Dcypher. Net. So why are the opinions of the DPC's any less valid than the opinions of all the TA memberss who expressed concern during that episode?

RaySun2Be,

I don't speak Dutch, nor can I read it. Before I began commenting on this subject, I ran the page through every publicly available translator that I could. I also ran every individual phrase through that referred to proxies and Team Anandtech. In that time, I never could find a single thing that referred to them trying to empty our proxies or those of D.Net. All I saw were a bunch of posts expressing hope, excitement and anticipation that they were going to best our OGR output for a day. I still have yet to see any evidence that they attempted to deny us OGR stubs to work with.

-Brian
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
3
0
Thunder-,

I don't read Dutch either, but I do know what this means:



<< [Dit bericht is gewijzigd door Dutchman! op 04-12-2000 15:34] >>



It appears several times in the thread. We will probably never know what was actually said before the posts were edited.

Russ, NCNE
 

ColinP

Golden Member
Oct 10, 1999
1,359
0
0


<< Unlike the aforementioned, who appropriately has the word &quot;boy&quot; in his handle, you have earned some respect around here, so I'll explain my post. >>



???????

Russ, Office Boy is one of the most respected, dedicated and hard working members of T.A. Seti....

Come back to the Seti posts O.B. , we love ya mate...



I think this whole situation is despicable and move that both teams cease doing OGR and combine forces under the T.A. Seti@Home banner....

How 'bout it??? Guys ????

Anybody ???



Col.
 

JHutch

Golden Member
Oct 11, 1999
1,040
0
0
Thanks, ColinP, you made me smile at the end of it... Just the idea of a Borg doing SETI brings a silly smile to my face!



OK, here and now, I call for an end to all hostilities. Please. Both with TA and with the DPC. We've had moments like this before, nothing ever really comes out of these things other than bad feelings.

Whatever we all seem to feel about the tactics espouse in the Newsletter, I think each and every team member that posted here agrees that the snipe against DPC (that they have no honor) was wrong and uncalled for. We respect the DPC and their efforts even if it burns our butts that you guys out-produce us everyday in RC5!

May the flames and anger subside, peace and love prevail.

JHutch

PS It is the Christmas season (for those that celebrate it) so let's honor the spirit of the season and try to treat each other with goodwill and a friendly smile!
 

Assimilator1

Elite Member
Nov 4, 1999
24,120
507
126
Kilowatt

>>>>So, We as a team (who didn't write it) need to apologize for the one that did? NOT! Get a life! Your team has those kind of members also.<<<<

So that means its OK for TA members to behave like that?
Maybe your right that TA shouldn't apologise for the letter written by 1 person but YOU are standing up for him!,I'll bet that if they had a similar newsletter about TA you would be upset too (understandabley).

>>>>Maybe it insulted you, but it made me laugh.<<<<

Again ,I bet you wouldn't laugh if you were at the recieving end.

>>>>I couldn't care one way or the other about OGR, so it makes me no difference.<<<<

Your selfish attitude could potentially damage TA.What you are saying is that I don't give a damn about TA OGR so I'll just inflame the situation.

>>>>Grow up, you are falling into their trap, and doing just what they want, crying about it<<<<

I would hardly call complaining about unsubstantiated accusations &amp; blatant insults childish!.If someone had wronged you wouldn't you complain?

Also as a general comment ,treat others as you would have others treat you.Even if they don't treat you fairly thats no reason to sink to there level.And no that doesn't mean just taking a bitch slapping all the time.

Russ

You can fight without getting dirty.
Your jumping to conclusions ,I agree with ColinP 100%.

<<< Unlike the aforementioned, who appropriately has the word &quot;boy&quot; in his handle, you have earned some respect around here, so I'll explain my post. >>

???????

Russ, Office Boy is one of the most respected, dedicated and hard working members of T.A. Seti....

Come back to the Seti posts O.B. , we love ya mate...
 

JollyP

Member
Jul 3, 2000
62
0
0
Russ

There were 3 edits in that entire thread to be exact.

The first without an explanation was in a post about which D.net proxy he was using and he was suggesting that everybody should use that proxy because it seemed to have enough stubs.

The second and third were about Energy's proxy being down for a hour.



 

Sukhoi

Elite Member
Dec 5, 1999
15,313
88
91


<< I think this whole situation is despicable and move that both teams cease doing OGR and combine forces under the T.A. Seti@Home banner.... >>



Exactly!
 

PeterN

Golden Member
Nov 19, 1999
1,228
0
0
Hi guys,

Let me clear up some issues.

First, I was the one making up that particular part of the newsletter. No other TA member was responsible for that further.

Second, I didn't have much time to visit the boards for a while, due to private circumstances. That is also why the newsletter didn't appear last monday.

Now, trying to explain how this all happened, from memory.

It was a piece of text, that was mostly written out of frustration and anxiety. It shouldn't be in it like that, but it did. For that I make my sincere apologies to both DPC and TA-members that are understandably offended by some remarks.

How did it come to this:

I was reading the mentioned thread on GoT and watched the discussion. At first I found it amusing and admirable to see the effort by DPC to become No.1 for a day. Then one (Dijkhuis: Team Anandtech heeft zelfs als taktiek verzonnen om alle resterende ogr-25 stubs te downloaden, zodat zij de competitie kunnen winnen doordat de andere teams droog komen te staan. Is this not a lie? I don't see where this is mentioned anywhere on our forum) said, TA was talking about draining all proxies (since this was the time DNet let the stubs issue run more slowly) and prevent Slashdot of getting them. That was the start of a discussion amongst DPC members to actually drain DNet's and TA's(to give TA a piece of their own?). (Don't say it is not meant that way, because I know it is. Why, because I've followed much of the discussions of GoT and have some idea of how and why people react the way the do.) Indeed the rest of the thread is about DPC-internal affairs (won't elaborate on that, it is of no concern to TA).

Just before the topic about draining the proxies, I contacted a few TA-members, of which I knew were doing OGR and asked them to save some stubs for monday. I think I asked them on Friday. This was just to prevent the gap from being a hugue one.

The thing that really ticked me off, was a letter from a DPC-member, in which he was asking me why I wasn't a member of their team. That's ok, I have had a few of those kind and answer politely, no thank you. The most insulting was, that he called me a traitor, because I didn't work for the 'right team' and said some more semi-insulting things.

That caused me to write that phrases:
&quot;planning to cheat&quot; and &quot;What else can you expect from a team, that has no honor and respect for other teams.&quot;

I shouldn't have done this, for which I certainly express my sincere apologies. It came out of frustration. I wrote that particular piece right after the combination of reading the thread and receiving the message on Saturday, I think.
Didn't read it over (as I normally do, before I send it) because of lack of time and send the whole thing off.

As said, some things I wrote down out of frustration and I was really angry about all this stuff.
I do apoligize for those phrases. The rest of the text still is as meant by me.

It said:
Hereby, I call upon all TA-members, that are working on the OGR project, to get OGR-stubs from the DPC proxies, if none are available from other places.

Especially notice the last part behind the comma: IF NONE ARE AVAILABLE FROM OTHER PLACES.
Only then go and get the stubs from the DPC-proxies, because that would mean the DPC really drained all proxies.

The list of DPC proxy addresses was only meant as a list that the DPC were using, not being especially OGR-proxies.

Wildhagen
Because your proxy is in that list, didn't mean I accuse you. As said, it was a list of available DPC-proxies.

Fardringle
You read the message as it was meant. Thanks for that, and thanks for reading through the angry part.

BK
I can understand your reaction of not to retaliate, but I hope you can see why that particular piece of text was written in the way it is. Yep, it is wrong, but it happened. Still remains the fact, that draining the proxies was NOT an idea of TA but of DPC.

TGen
I agree partly, but you forget one major important thing. The newsletter was send on monday and the DNet servers were only filling up on tuesday. This could (<== mention this) mean some of your team members were going to drain the stuff.
Why else the talking about getting 10,000 stubs, 25,000 stubs, 1,000 stubs and such Dutchman?, zal mijn voorraad dan maar even vergroten van 600 naar 10.000 ofzo Enlarging your buffers because of the remark of Dijkhuis?.
Some other remarks in the thread, that don't need an English translation:


<< Ik probeer er 25k binnen te trekken nu >>




<< Hehe, en ik ben ook een poging tot de 25K aan het doen >>




<< TA zal wel flink balen van deze actie, in hun fora hebben ze het alleen over /. die alle stubs binnenslurpt, zelf zijn ze zo te zien nog niet al te actief daarmee.... >>




<< Maar goed, humor is het wel. ik hoop alleen dat D.net er niet over aat klagen dat je alle resterende stubs inpikt >>



For now, I'll leave this message to be considered by anybody, that feels the need. I only hope that it will be considered on ALL its merits, not just the ones that suits the most.

CU all, Peter.
 

Andy2

Junior Member
Feb 29, 2000
22
0
0
Well,

wether Dutchman is right or wrong is not all too important for TA. All the words between your own members are no good for the teamspirit...

I hope you get all the noses in the same direction again and keep the competition up.



Good luck,

................ND4fun
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
3
0
Peter,

Thank you for the explanation. It's nice to actually have the other side of the story.



<< Just the idea of a Borg doing SETI brings a silly smile to my face! >>



JHutch,

Actually, I will be doing some SETI after RC5 is over. I pay my debts.

Russ, NCNE
 

BurntKooshie

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,204
0
0
PeterN - I respect your answer. I still don't understand it though. Why does it matter that they were the ones who started the idea? That's about like saying &quot;But mom, he started it!&quot; Um....I just don't like retaliation.

If its necessary, I guess I can understand it. But the fact is, this isn't our nations defense. This is about loosing one whole day, and losing nothing in the long run. Each day is like a battle, and then there's the war. With OGR, we've already pretty much won the war. Why retaliate for a battle?

Why point fingers, and say &quot;he started it!&quot;?
 

toph99

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2000
5,505
0
0
personally, i can understand both teams wanting to stock up on stubs as you don't want to run out and be stuck in the gutter, but as for draining proxies to undermine an opponent(even if this didn't happen in this case) is just dishonest. this is a competition, not war. in competitions you are supposed to win by brute force, whoever has the more computing power, wins. not by deliberatly sabotaging another team's chance. in running, do you glue your opponents shoes to the starting blocks just to win? no. whoever is fastest at that time wins. i sincerely hope that no one tried to undermine any other team. just my $0.02
 

PeterN

Golden Member
Nov 19, 1999
1,228
0
0
BK

It wasn't just the part of &quot;they started it&quot;. Also some other things, amongst one was the message I got from a DPC-member.

That combination ticked me off.

If it were just for the starting-part, I would have just made a general (non-insulting) topic about it in our forums with the link and some (partly) translations, since most is not important to TA-members.

Peter.

PS Now I'm really going to bed. It passed midnight
 

DSmarty

Member
Apr 12, 2000
120
0
0
PeterN, thanx for explaining the newsletter. (that's the only thing I wanted to see, + a little excuse...)

Speaking for myself: I still love ya'll
It was just the newsletter that sounded quite aggressive (and filled with things that aren't correct).

End of Discussion (IMHO)

 

Fandu

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,341
0
0
Alrighty. Explanation done, everyone go untie their panties and go home!

It's pretty clear that there was wrong doing by both sides, lets just let this die!
 

RaySun2Be

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
16,565
6
71
Peter,
Thanks so much for the other side of the story, a lot of what was said in that article makes sense now. :Q

BK,
I read and re-read Peter's writing. I don't see anywhere he stated we should drain the DPC proxies, or any type of behavior like that, including cheating. He was talking about the DPCs storing up huge numbers of blocks. he only recommended that we get OGR stubs from the DPC proxies if NONE were available other places. He didn't say drain them, he just said to get some. Taken in context of the whole thing, it would mean that the DPCs had drained all other proxies and were hoarding them. Now if that had happened, it probably would be better to get DNET involved.

The rest was obviously said in anger, and he has apoligized for that. After all he is human too, and I think that a lot of things were said in this topic alone during the heat of the moment.

I will assume that the DPC never followed through with downloading huge amounts of OGR stubs, as it wouldn't be a desirable approach to the contest, and I've known the DPC to do the right thing in the past.

I will assume that TA didn't either and has also been a team to do the right thing, and I would recommend that any TA member (if any) that is currently pulling OGR stubs from a DPC proxy switch back to DNET or the TA proxies unless they have permission first, and would request that any DPC (if any) that are using the TA proxies do the same, and switch back to DNET or the DPC proxies, just so there are no misunderstandings.

Ok, now can we all take a deep breath, exhale, shake hands, forgive and forget, and move on from here?
 

Lord Demios

Senior member
Oct 11, 1999
850
0
0
/me points at one of the threads on GoT's site, and says &quot;Look, it was all Danc's IDEA!!!&quot;

/me sets the angry mob loose on Danc.

(/me is an action command in IRC, if you don't know this, you should visit irc.teamanandtech.com more often)

(ps, sorry Dan, but the truth had to be said!)

LD
 
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