Grudge Match From Hell : HD 6970 Vs GTX 560

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lavaheadache

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2005
6,893
14
81
The 580 is a lot faster than the 6970, the 570 already costs less. So I guess you agree with me.

IF a 6970 is on par with a 570, and a 570 is not a whole heck of a lot slower than a 580 then how is a 580 way faster than a 6970?

I don't know.. maybe I'm just biased. Oh wait, my computer, which I am posting this message from is sporting a 580 and a 460.

Having a favorite "team" is one thing but I think you try way too hard
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
IF a 6970 is on par with a 570, and a 570 is not a whole heck of a lot slower than a 580 then how is a 580 way faster than a 6970?

I don't know.. maybe I'm just biased. Oh wait, my computer, which I am posting this message from is sporting a 580 and a 460.

Having a favorite "team" is one thing but I think you try way too hard

@1920x1080 the gtx580 is 17% faster then a gtx570 on average.
Is 17% way faster? With video cards so close in performance today, that is dam close to way faster.
 

lavaheadache

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2005
6,893
14
81
Who buys a 6970 to game at 1680x1050? How is that even a relevant way of comparing cards?

Lets see the 1920x1200, a resolution which anyone looking to spend around $300 on a graphics card will probably be gaming at. I have 2048x1152 resolution myself.

You guys all seem to banter on and on about how low of a res 1680x1050 is. While I agree that it isn't the highest one out there, even a 580 has trouble running certain games at that res with all the bells and whisltles. Metro 2033 anyone? There are a handful of games out that will drop well into the 30's @1680x1050 using a GTX 580.

For me it is all about sustaining fluid frame rates, and there is not a card out there that can do that in all games even at the lowly resolution of 1680x1050. So in my eyes I see plenty of reason for a 6970, GTX 570/580, crossfire/Sli you name it, at that res.

Games that will choke up any card at 1680x1050 with 4xaa

Mafia II (physx on)

Just cause 2 (bokem filter, etc....)

Crysis + Warhead

Metro 2033

AVP

Cryostasis (even with a physx card you will see some really good slow downs)

These are just some off the top of my head.

Am I saying that these games are unplayable .... NO

All I'm saying is that to some of us, give us all the GPU power you can because even 1 slowdown is too much. I won't even get started with 3d vision or 120hz capable displays.
 

lavaheadache

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2005
6,893
14
81
@1920x1080 the gtx580 is 17% faster then a gtx570 on average.
Is 17% way faster? With video cards so close in performance today, that is dam close to way faster.

No, 17% isn't way faster.

If I went to Wendy's for lunch and my Baconator had 17% more calories than your Whopper at Burger King, does that mean you ate healthy? No.... With how relatively bad all fast food is for you, 17% isn't gonna make one or the other "the better choice"
 

ugaboga232

Member
Sep 23, 2009
144
0
0
1 Ghz 580 had aftermarket cooler (a very beefy one) or was done for suicide benchmark runs. There is an almost negligible chance you can get a stock 580 to 1 ghz speeds.
 

extra

Golden Member
Dec 18, 1999
1,947
7
81
What's the deal with comparing one super overclocked card vs one (almost) stock one?

And 1680x1050...really? REALLY??? Is ANYONE, other than laptop users, using that resolution with any of the modern Nvidia or AMD cards??? Anyone? Out of the half dozen or so friends at work I have that game, I don't know a single one that uses less than 1080p on their main display. Unless it's on their laptop. The only people running that resolution that I know in person are using old P4 or athlon 64 systems. :\

This review is akin to, with the previous generation, taking a way overclocked gtx470 that's as fast or faster than a stock 480 and saying look see, the 480 is pointless... Now 560 is a good card with a lot of potential, but at the resolutions people are actually going to be using, and at clocks people are going to be using, thinking that it stands up to the 6970 is disingenuous, imho. I also disagree that the 570 and the 6970 are overpriced. I think they are priced right about where they should be--which to buy just depends on what features you want really (eyefinity? cuda for cs5? etc).
 

badb0y

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2010
4,015
30
91
This has to be a joke...OCed the GTX 560 so much yet left the 6970 practically stock? You know if you do that with a 6950 you get similar results right? Samething when you OC a GTX 570, it overtakes the GTX 580.

The point is GTX 560 is a damn good card but seeing how fast AMD reacted it didn't bring the same punch the GTX 460 had. It's a great card but let's try not to make it look like the second comming of Jesus or something.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
This has to be a joke...OCed the GTX 560 so much yet left the 6970 practically stock?

thats normal, remember your comparing a card for 110$ more also.
Having a 250$ card that can reach the same speed as a card that cost 33% more is good.
Whats the problem?
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,537
3
76
but it isn't reaching the same speed when you OC the 6970 to it's potential as well. If you're going to push one you should do them both.
 

mwmorph

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2004
8,882
1
81
"Review" is a joke and this coming from someone that has bought Nvidia for the last 2 generations.

Just the way it's done boggles the mind that someone would even try to pass this off as anything but BS.

1. HAWX 2, the outcome is obvious before it's even benched. It's a NVIDIA game AND an outlier. It is not representative of average performance between 2 cards. It's like comparing a minivan with a Ferrari n a situation where you have to transport 7 people as quickly as possible from A to B in heavy traffic, basically completely invalid as a speed test except for that exact rare situation. Lost Planet 2 and Dirt 2 are not much better, though Dirt 2 isn't as bad as the others.

2. Crysis Bench at 1680x1050 is again cherry picked. Crysis is great at being pretty brand neutral, but then the settings were tuned to negate the 6970's advantages like using higher AA or resolutions which would be much more realistic. Someone spending $370 or even $250 on a high end video card is not going to be playing it on a $110 pos monitor and even if they did, wouldn't be doing so on such low settings.

3. Basically stock v.s. heavily OC'ed, really? The original linked post reported that these were max clocks able to be achieved on that particular card including overvolting from 0.975 to 1.137 and turning the fan to permanent 100% A similar conclusion would be reached comparing a 560 to a 570 in a situation like this.

4. Ignored posting AMD positive results like Metro 2033, 3DMark Vantage/11, Stalker, Call of Juarez, etc

Basically the OP is harmful to Nvidia more than ATI in that it shows the OP is spreading pure FUD. It is right that people in both camps should be offended by these skewed "benchmarks" that try to pain AMD in a negative light and also give off the whiff of desperation that NVIDIA fanboys cant play fair. The fact of the matter is, bot camps make great products and there is no need to pull stunts like this. For shame, truly.

This thread insults the intelligence of everyone involved.


Your personal assessment of any given fellow colleague's post or thread is your business...but you have no business stating your disparaging opinion on such matters in a technical forum such as this.

Please read, and reflect upon, the following comments taken directly from our AnandTech Forum Guidelines:
We want to give all our members as much freedom as possible while maintaining an environment that encourages productive discussion. It is our desire to encourage our members to share their knowledge and experiences in order to benefit the rest of the community, while also providing a place for people to come and just hang out.

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We ask for respect and common decency towards your fellow forum members.

Now I ask you, what part of the text quoted above is reflected in your stating the following?
mwmorph said:
Basically the OP is harmful to Nvidia more than ATI in that it shows the OP is spreading pure FUD. ...

For shame, truly.

This thread insults the intelligence of everyone involved.

These kinds of personal attacks and insults need to stop. They are not acceptable.

If the posts contain factually inaccurate or misrepresented information then you are expected to limit your response to that of presenting the correct facts and information, or if necessary report the post in question and leave the matter to the moderation team.

Moderator Idontcare
 
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Castiel

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2010
1,772
1
0
I'm not sure why everyone is up in arms. The guy who did the review was just showing off his card till he was asked to compare it against a 6970. I think it's cool he took the time to put this little comparo together.
 

Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
5,195
1
71
Even after being handicapped. 6970 is STILL faster in games that are really demanding. Stalker, metro, crysis. Games like HAWX2 or resident evil 5 that run at over 100fps the 560 is faster. Just shows how much muscle the 6970 has and is rightly more expensive.

Hey. how about take a $100 less 6850 and OC it and its faster than a stock 560.


EDIT: Just looked at hos review above, 5870 is also faster than a 560 and about $50 cheaper.
 

badb0y

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2010
4,015
30
91
thats normal, remember your comparing a card for 110$ more also.
Having a 250$ card that can reach the same speed as a card that cost 33% more is good.
Whats the problem?
happy, I don't have a problem with GTX 560 OCed to beat a 6970, what I do have a problem with is people saying "OMG IT BEATZ A 6970 AND COSTS 110$ LESS WTF BBQ !1!1!" If you OC the 6970 it will pass a GT 580, does that make the GTX 580 look silly? Same thing with the GTX 570, when OCed it will surpass the GTX 580. 500-380= 120$ and 500-350= 150$, why aren't people going berserk over this? Because they know that the GTX 580 can OC as well but when it comes to the GTX 560, people act like all other cards lose the ability to OC.

Also this isn't a match it's a comparison. A match implies some sort of competition, how can this be a competition when you cut one of the competitors legs off?
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
happy, I don't have a problem with GTX 560 OCed to beat a 6970, what I do have a problem with is people saying "OMG IT BEATZ A 6970 AND COSTS 110$ LESS WTF BBQ !1!1!" If you OC the 6970 it will pass a GT 580, does that make the GTX 580 look silly? Same thing with the GTX 570, when OCed it will surpass the GTX 580. 500-380= 120$ and 500-350= 150$, why aren't people going berserk over this? Because they know that the GTX 580 can OC as well but when it comes to the GTX 560, people act like all other cards lose the ability to OC.

Also this isn't a match it's a comparison. A match implies some sort of competition, how can this be a competition when you cut one of the competitors legs off?


It was exactly the same argument comparing the 460, overclocked til it's nose bled, against the 5850. For some reason the 5850 O/C capability was lost in the comparison. Same old song and dance.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,634
180
106
Games that will choke up any card at 1680x1050 with 4xaa

Mafia II (physx on)

Just cause 2 (bokem filter, etc....)

Crysis + Warhead

Metro 2033

AVP

Cryostasis (even with a physx card you will see some really good slow downs)

In most of those cases you're just giving up a lot of performance for some minimal IQ increase.
 

Aristotelian

Golden Member
Jan 30, 2010
1,246
11
76
Not when you are trying to make the cheaper card look better.

Against my better judgement I decided to read this thread. Thanks for summarizing my viewpoint for me, 3DVagabond. This has been going on for months, with dozens of posts reported.

You don't get to take a cheaper card, overclock the bejeezus out of it, and then say it's faster than a more expensive card at stock clocks, per se. It is faster in that context, where one card is being pushed and another is left at stock.

Unfortunately for those who wish to push these comparisons, many people rightly view them as idiotic. You overclock both cards, you figure out which one is faster. Then, if the cheaper card is faster it's the faster card. Or if the faster card is faster it's the faster card. Whichever one is 'more bang for the buck' is a separate variable that has nothing to do with the raw performance of the card.

Yeesh.
 

Axon

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2003
2,541
1
76
No, 17% isn't way faster.

If I went to Wendy's for lunch and my Baconator had 17% more calories than your Whopper at Burger King, does that mean you ate healthy? No.... With how relatively bad all fast food is for you, 17% isn't gonna make one or the other "the better choice"

I have to say, an analogy comparing GPU performance and fast food nutritional content has long been a secret favorite.

BTW, OC3d.net has a review of the 6970 Direct CU which details its performance at stock and OC vs. a 460 at stock and OCed (grrr wanted the 560). His GTX 560 review also includes comparisons between the 560 and 6970 cards while overclocked.

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/gpu_displays/asus_radeon_hd_6870_directcu/1

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/gpu_displays/nvidia_gtx560_ti_review/1

It looks like the 560 is the winner for 1920 or below this round. Going higher I think the 6970 or 6950's additional memory easily pushes it past the 560.
 
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