GT300 Benchmarks

[dreddfunk]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

It is looking more and more like amd's small ball strategy is superior to nvidia's "build the fastest no matter what" philosophy.

The only way that statement can be viewed as accurate is that you have seen exactly how the GT3x0 parts are going to perform, so why not share with us? What has currently been proven in differences is that ATi's strategy allowed them to ship earlier this generation, nothing more. Considering that the 5xxx series is a modified 4xxx(which dates back to the 2xxx parts) while the GT300 series chips are an entirely new core, perhaps that shouldn't be surprising.

Ben, let me push back just a bit in one small way (and to be sure, I'm not one for the 'nvidia is doomed' perspective on all this).

One place where I think the small-die strategy has helped AMD is in pricing flexibility. It has allowed them to effectively re-price previously high-end parts as the market pushes on. I think it also saves on R&D (if you can profitably sell last-gen's high-end parts in the mid-range, there is no need to do a separate midrange design each generation).

The difference I see is that AMD happily pushed 4870/4850 into the sub $150 market, but NV certainly doesn't seem willing to do that with 285/280/275/260. As an aside, I'm really hoping for a top-to-bottom launch from NV early next year.

In general, I don't think that we can tell from a couple years' worth of data whether or not the small-die strategy is working, especially given who's trying it. AMD/ATI have had so many problems that they have had (and still have) some serious work to do in order to recapture consumer mind-share.

But I think the strategy itself is a sound one, and one I'd like to see NV pursue. A GT360 that starts at $299 and gets pushed down to $175-180 when the next generation hits? Yes, please!

 

[5150Joker]

Well several years later I think what a lot of us predicted is coming true: ATi merging with AMD was a very smart move and those of us without green tinted glasses knew nVidia was in trouble without an x86 license. I give them 1-2 more years tops in the high end before they are gone for good. Wreckage et al can then move to the mobile handset forums and pimp how great nVidia is there.

 

[tviceman]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

There is no parade to rain on. NVIDIA still has the fastest card, they are still strong in the mid to low markets. They still have 3dvision, Physx and CUDA which helped them gain a 2:1 sales advantage over ATI. With the 58xx series being such a soft launch (with few cards available), I doubt it's really eating into NVIDIA's sales any.

Besides ATI fans last round complained about $400 cards, so why would they rush out and buy a 5870?

NVIDIA has nothing but time right now to do ride out the successful GTX series and bring out the true next gen when the time is right.

I'm an nvidia fan and I am still wincing at just about everything you're saying here. The 5800 launch was somewhat soft only in the first 5 days, since then I've seen availability every day for their offered cards. It's not "such a soft" launch. It's now a very real reality.

ATI has essentially done something nvidia hasn't done in a long, long time - and that is introduce a top to bottom set of new graphics cards almost all at once. I question the value of the 5770, but the fact that it is still released shows they are operating much more smoothly right now that nvidia. For the fans complaining about paying too much for a 5870, the 5850 offers undeniably incredible value compared to the 285 GTX.

Yes they still have the fastest single card solution available, but that really doesn't mean much when sales volume is so minuscule when compared to their other GPU product sales.

Nvidia's profit margins are much smaller than ATI's, and now that ATI has better performing parts at similar price points, it's safe to say that the GTX's ride is about over, and nvidia has anything but ample amounts of time to ride anything out.

I'm in no rush to upgrade as my gtx 260 core 216 still performs great so I'm anxiously waiting to see what nvidia brings to the table, but honestly they'll need a great product to compete with the 5870 and it's soon to be upcoming predecessor.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: v8envy
Yes, NV is so pumped about having nothing but an obsolete DX10 power sucking sandwich (which may not be profitable to make even at $100 over a comparable competing part) that they're canceling the entire mid to high end GT200 production.

You know exactly why people are rushing out to get the 5870 (and 5850). There's absolutely nothing NV has right that's remotely feature competitive at any price level. Only an idiot or die hard fan would eat that nasty, obsolete and squealing sandwich and think they got the best.

I wonder what kind of sales advantage the Ford Pinto had over say a Ferrari 365. I'd guess much larger than 2:1. Clearly it was many orders of magnitude better car.

.......

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Well several years later I think what a lot of us predicted is coming true: ATi merging with AMD was a very smart move and those of us without green tinted glasses knew nVidia was in trouble without an x86 license. I give them 1-2 more years tops in the high end before they are gone for good. Wreckage et al can then move to the mobile handset forums and pimp how great nVidia is there.

AMD has managed to survive for nearly decade of losing money and you expect Nvidia will be gone within 2 years? Not that Nvidia doesnt have some hurdles to overcome. But your post is pretty funny. Nvidia is still churning a profit and is expected to post about 50 cents a share in 2010. AMD on the other hand is still expected to bleed money through 2010. I still think AMD could had done better plowing 1-2 billion into their own GPU development instead of overpaying for a floundering ATI that has saddled them with so much debt they will be hard pressed to truely survive much less innovate against Intel.

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I still think AMD could had done better plowing 1-2 billion into their own GPU development instead of overpaying for a floundering ATI that has saddled them with so much debt they will be hard pressed to truely survive much less innovate against Intel.

Overpaying for ATI was bad, but you have to admit. The quickly developed radeon-based IGPs were (and still are) a major selling point for AMD CPUs. Intel went the road of developing their own GPU, even with the benefit of existing "GPU"s. It's no secret that today, a 5870 > any LRB. In retrospect, aside from overpaying, ole Hector made the smart move by bying ATI.

If it weren't for that and an Arab cash infusion we'd feel fortunate paying $500 for a 9400 level performer from Nvidia and $800 for a core2 celeron from Intel right about now.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: IlllI

Originally posted by: T2k

This is pretty far from certain, more likely not true at all, given that the extra trannies in GT300 went for purely GPGPU purposes.

trannies? as in transvestites? :Q

Yeah, I knew nvidia what gay! :laugh:

(Sorry, I came here for the off-topic banter which is far more relevant than the flame fest going on here)

 

[RussianSensation]

Stop feeding the troll.

No matter what happens in the world of videocards, Wreckage will always find something far more positive to say about NV than ATI. Ever since he joined the forums he has never purchased a single ATI card as far as anyone can remember. The main problem here is that the performance results of GT300 have never been validated by NV publicly, and neither have these posted benchmarks. Yet, these benchmarks are in fact being presented as if they are 'factual' information.

The bottom line is any preliminary benchmarks or information which have not been directly released by NV are only speculation and should be viewed as such.

 

[alyarb]

he has one argument. kind of like how michael crichton has one story.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Anyone remember ATI and the associated fanboys of said company did exactly this same thing? Made up numbers with no machine specs or in game settings information published with a few bar graphs showing a 5870 to be significantly faster than the GTX295? That didn't pan out exactly as the rumors and fake graphs depicted. This is no different. It means nothing to get upset about it. No need to get worked up.

+1

Yea, but I think that was a different situation...

If good ol' Charlie (of TheInq/SemiAccurate fame) was to post a story on his website, "Fermi Benchmarks - 50% as fast as 5870" and then had some numbers with no specs as well as the "50%" math being way off, we'd all bash him. Wreckage has proven to be to AMD what Charlie is to Nvidia.

 

[v8envy]

Except Charlie has a "news" site and is making money off of pageviews from enraged or enthralled visitors. We have yet to figure out what keeps Wreckage going.

 

[Barfo]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
Stop feeding the troll.

:thumbsup:

 

[waffleironhead]

Originally posted by: v8envy
Except Charlie has a "news" site and is making money off of pageviews from enraged or enthralled visitors. We have yet to figure out what keeps Wreckage going.

I figured it was obvious whose payroll he is on.

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: waffleironhead
I figured it was obvious whose payroll he is on.

I don't think AMD has the kind of cash. It'd be hard to justify "troll to make competition look bad through shitposting" during budget meetings in these hard times. So no, not obvious at all.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: waffleironhead

Originally posted by: v8envy
Except Charlie has a "news" site and is making money off of pageviews from enraged or enthralled visitors. We have yet to figure out what keeps Wreckage going.

I figured it was obvious whose payroll he is on.

I guess you never know, but I'd be suprised if he was on AMD's payroll. I thought all his Nvidia anger stemmed from something along the lines of Nvidia not inviting him to some press events, or not sending him review samples, or something like that. I'm pretty sure if you go back into the past far enough, he wrote stories critical of both ATI and Nvidia. From what I remember hearing, Nvidia cut him off after one too many of his editorialized 'news' stories and he's had it out for them ever since. At least I thought it was something along those lines.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder

Originally posted by: waffleironhead

Originally posted by: v8envy
Except Charlie has a "news" site and is making money off of pageviews from enraged or enthralled visitors. We have yet to figure out what keeps Wreckage going.

I figured it was obvious whose payroll he is on.

I guess you never know, but I'd be suprised if he was on AMD's payroll. I thought all his Nvidia anger stemmed from something along the lines of Nvidia not inviting him to some press events, or not sending him review samples, or something like that. I'm pretty sure if you go back into the past far enough, he wrote stories critical of both ATI and Nvidia. From what I remember hearing, Nvidia cut him off after one too many of his editorialized 'news' stories and he's had it out for them ever since. At least I thought it was something along those lines.

Charlies website is generally littered with AMD ads, so they are at least paying him through ad revenue.

 

[SirPauly]

I noticed the video and checked it out and it's really not a nVidia vs ATI armchair battle of the finest so-to-speak but what does anyone know about the "source" that offered the video?

I checked out some of his videos and seems to like gaming, nVidia hardware and beer. Has stanbony ever do anything like this before or hyped and faked disinformation for misleading hits or attention?

Pinch of salt but open minded to see what the benches will be to see if this stanbony was accurate for future reference.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder

Originally posted by: waffleironhead

Originally posted by: v8envy
Except Charlie has a "news" site and is making money off of pageviews from enraged or enthralled visitors. We have yet to figure out what keeps Wreckage going.

I figured it was obvious whose payroll he is on.

I guess you never know, but I'd be suprised if he was on AMD's payroll. I thought all his Nvidia anger stemmed from something along the lines of Nvidia not inviting him to some press events, or not sending him review samples, or something like that. I'm pretty sure if you go back into the past far enough, he wrote stories critical of both ATI and Nvidia. From what I remember hearing, Nvidia cut him off after one too many of his editorialized 'news' stories and he's had it out for them ever since. At least I thought it was something along those lines.

Charlies website is generally littered with AMD ads, so they are at least paying him through ad revenue.

http://www.biohazard-computers.com/

That is another one of his advertisers. sure is a lot of green on that site... my guess is he'll take just about anyone willing to pay.

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: Ben90
Dude screw this lame GT300 crap, i just aquired myself a leaked GTX 480 (yea bet u didnt even know they were releasing this for like another year)

Anyways basic rundown:
GPU: GT400
Release Date: November 20th 2009
MSRP: like 50ish bucks
Idle Power Usage: 2.2 watts
Max Power Usage: 8 watts

Benchmarks:
Top Secret Benchmark Leaks

hehe

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
That is another one of his advertisers. sure is a lot of green on that site... my guess is he'll take just about anyone willing to pay.

BTW that AMD ad goes to zipzoomfly.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Well several years later I think what a lot of us predicted is coming true: ATi merging with AMD was a very smart move and those of us without green tinted glasses knew nVidia was in trouble without an x86 license. I give them 1-2 more years tops in the high end before they are gone for good. Wreckage et al can then move to the mobile handset forums and pimp how great nVidia is there.

AMD has managed to survive for nearly decade of losing money and you expect Nvidia will be gone within 2 years? Not that Nvidia doesnt have some hurdles to overcome. But your post is pretty funny. Nvidia is still churning a profit and is expected to post about 50 cents a share in 2010. AMD on the other hand is still expected to bleed money through 2010. I still think AMD could had done better plowing 1-2 billion into their own GPU development instead of overpaying for a floundering ATI that has saddled them with so much debt they will be hard pressed to truely survive much less innovate against Intel.

nVidia has no viable future in the discrete graphics market. Once 2012 rolls around and AMD + Intel start incorporating their GPU's on die, they will have all-in-one solutions that nVidia won't be able to compete with. The high end makes money but not enough for a company to thrive on, they need the mid and low end and it simply won't be there for nVidia. nVidia even realizes they are finished in the discrete market and that's why they are moving away from it. In the long term, ATi/AMD have a bright future, even if their CPU performance isn't on par with Intel. They will make their overall packages more attractive by having better on die GPU performance. Everyone but nVidia fans saw this coming years back.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker


nVidia has no viable future in the discrete graphics market. Once 2012 rolls around and AMD + Intel start incorporating their GPU's on die, they will have all-in-one solutions that nVidia won't be able to compete with. The high end makes money but not enough for a company to thrive on, they need the mid and low end and it simply won't be there for nVidia. nVidia even realizes they are finished in the discrete market and that's why they are moving away from it. In the long term, ATi/AMD have a bright future, even if their CPU performance isn't on par with Intel. They will make their overall packages more attractive by having better on die GPU performance. Everyone but nVidia fans saw this coming years back.

If wishes were fishes the sea would be full of em . :laugh:

This dream of yours ignores a lot of facts. NVIDIA is worth more than AMD and actually has money in the bank instead of crushing debt. NVIDIA is diversifying, while AMD is selling parts of itself off in order to stay afloat. The GPU+CPU on die thing will merely be a replacement for current IGPs. Which Intel already dominates anyway.

This dream of yours is more of a nightmare for AMD. Once 2012 rolls around AMD could be bankrupt.

 

[Stoneburner]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Girlfriend, yo man ain't got shit on my man!

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: 5150Joker


nVidia has no viable future in the discrete graphics market. Once 2012 rolls around and AMD + Intel start incorporating their GPU's on die, they will have all-in-one solutions that nVidia won't be able to compete with. The high end makes money but not enough for a company to thrive on, they need the mid and low end and it simply won't be there for nVidia. nVidia even realizes they are finished in the discrete market and that's why they are moving away from it. In the long term, ATi/AMD have a bright future, even if their CPU performance isn't on par with Intel. They will make their overall packages more attractive by having better on die GPU performance. Everyone but nVidia fans saw this coming years back.

If wishes were fishes the sea would be full of em . :laugh:

This dream of yours ignores a lot of facts. NVIDIA is worth more than AMD and actually has money in the bank instead of crushing debt. NVIDIA is diversifying, while AMD is selling parts of itself off in order to stay afloat. The GPU+CPU on die thing will merely be a replacement for current IGPs. Which Intel already dominates anyway.

This dream of yours is more of a nightmare for AMD. Once 2012 rolls around AMD could be bankrupt.

The same old tired drivel from Wreckage, big surprise. It doesn't matter how much cash nVidia has, it's not enough to get them an x86 license is it? The PC graphics future lies with all in one solutions via on die graphics. With no viable chipset busness and soon graphics business, nVidia will be caput in the PC arena. Hey at least you will still have a job trolling hand held forums.

 

[evolucion8]

Its a miracle that Wreckage didn't put out the CUDA and PhysX shit, that's what is missing and for sure his words will sound identical accross all the threads that he derails.