Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: evolucion8
Don't listen to Wreckage's facts with all the links he provided. Listen to my skewed opinion
So now a 4870 surpasses a 280 :roll:
As noted I already showed reviews from 3 different sites that have the 260 in the lead (with the 280 far ahead of that even).
Here's another one that pretty much seals the deal.
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1414&pageID=5839
We weren't expecting it, but the Nvidia BFG GTX-260 Core 216 (MaxCore) made it a clean sweep. With every game at every resolution, it took the lead and kept it. If this were a Shootout at the OK Corral the ATI GPU would be sprawled in a pool of blood with five holes in its core and the Nvidia GPU would be left standing unscathed.
Correct me if I'm wrong (I could be) but in that review aren't they using the Nvidia performance driver? And wasn't 8.12 the performance driver for AMD, but they used 8.11? Or maybe 8.11 had some optimizations, but 8.12 further optimzed it, and now 9.1 has even more improvements? If that is indeed the case, then I don't think their conclusion is valid any longer as AMD's drivers have pretty well matched the Nvidia performance drivers and bring the cards much closer to equals in performance.
And no, I don't think anyone is suggesting that the 4870 competes wtih the GTX280. But take a look at AT's review of the GTX285, take a look at AoC performance:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3501&p=2
This is what people are getting at. For the most part the 4870 and GTX260 compete very well, quite close to each other. One sometimes faster then the other depending on the game and resolution. But there are times that not only is the 4870 faster then the GTX260, but in this perticular example it's faster then the GTX280, and faster then even the GTX285! They are not meant to compete, so that's a pretty nice accomplishment for such a lesser card then the GTX285. Sure, you can piont out poor scaling issues for a multi GPU card where a lesser single GPU card is faster, but that's just a scaling issue that likely will be addressed in a future driver update. In the example above, this is just a game that is coded in a way that it runs better on the AMD hardware then Nvidia hardware.
And if you go through the review, not just look at their bar graph results but compare the GTX260 to the 4870 in the line graphs that show different resolutions, I don't see how you could come up with any other conclusion then that these cards simply trade blows depending on the game and resolution.
Take the next game in the review, CoD:WoW. At 1680 res the 4870 is faster then the GTX260. It's also faster then the GTX280 again. But then on this game as the resolution goes up, the GTX260 overtakes teh 4870 1GB. Again, depending on the resolution the results can change.
Next game, Crysis Warhead. The 4870 1GB is faster at every resolution tested then the GTX260.
Next game, Fallout 3. The 4870 is faster then the GTX260, GTX280, and even the much more expensive GTX285 at 1680 4xAA res. And it's infact, significantly faster then the GTX260 at that res, nearly 20FPS (78.5 to 59.9). As we move up a res to 1920 4xAA the 4870 still is faster then every single GeForce GTX card, even the GTX285! Then finally we get to 2560 4xAA res and the 4870 is again faster then the GTX260 (the card it is meant to compete with and priced with) but now falls behind the more expensive GTX280 and GTX285.
Now we go to FC2. And what to we see? Another 1680 4xAA res win for the 4870 over the GTX260. At 1920 4xAA the 4870 1GB is again faster then the GTX260. Then at 2560 the GTX260 edges out the 4870 by .4FPS... not much, but still measured faster. Kind of goes back to that trading blows thing I think that's been mentioned that you want to ignore... hmmm...
Now we get to Left4Dead. And what do we see? The 4870 has it's foot firmly implanted in the GTX260's anus at 1680 4xAA res. 91.6FPS vs. 74. At 1980 4xAA the 4870 1GB is still 10FPS faster then the GTX260. And then at 2560 res the GTX260 pulls ahead of the 4870... I think I have mentioned these cards trading blows before, this would be an example of that. And so far for must of us that have a 22-26" monitor it appears the 4870 is the better choice. But why stop now... let's check the next game!
Race Driver GRID. 1680 4xAA. Radeon 4870 - 83.6FPS. GTX260 - 59.7FPS. That's 20FPS better for the 4870 at that res. And once again, at that res the 4870 beats the GTX280 as well as the GTX285. At 1920 4xAA res, again the 4870 1GB bests the GTX260, the GTX280, and even again pulls ahead of the GTX285. Ouch. At 2560 4xAA the 4870 beats the GTX260 handily, is still faster then the GTX280, but falls an FPS behind the GTX285.
The only possible issue with that review is they don't explicitly state if they are using the GTX260 192 or 216. But even if you average out the speed between the GTX280 and GTX260 to get a good idea of the GTX260 216 performance (assuming that's not what they're using) it changes next to nothing. These are two very closely performing cards that can go either way depending on the game and resolution. I don't see how you can keep suggesting that the GTX260 is better, and that's it. End of story. Here is a review using very current drivers that shows the 4870 is plenty capable of hanging with, even exceeding GTX260 performance, and sometimes can even beat out cards that are in a higher class.