Gtx 460 reviews thread

[MerrickAggie97]

what resolution? what games?

1920x1080 (AF is a must. AA is preferred but not absolutely necessary)

Crysis 2 and Rage are games Im looking to play in the future.

Obviously we don't know how well those run.

 

[Skurge]

1920x1080 (AF is a must. AA is preferred but not absolutely necessary)

Crysis 2 and Rage are games Im looking to play in the future.

Obviously we don't know how well those run.

Im sure your dual 4870s are doing fine at that res, you could wait for Southern Islands and see how that does.

 

[RussianSensation]

ATI fans have to try and ignore PhysX, CUDA, 3D and Tessellation to justify their purchase. I can't think of any other fanbase that would suffer so much for their company.

That's funny you say that. If I was going to buy an NV graphics card right now, all those 4 features you listed are useless to me. Performance, price, noise and power consumption is where it's at. This is why GTX460 is a good card. Those 4 features you listed sure weren't selling truck loads of GTX465/470 and 480 cards....

PhysX, a gimmick that has no impact on games? You've been singing the same tune for 3 years. There is not a single game where PhysX is a must have feature (not yet at least, maybe Mafia 2 can change that). I'll take more realistic physics in BF:BC2 for now instead of Batman. Crysis 2 will show us how physics should be done without PhysX.

CUDA? Not really. ATI cards embarrass NV in Milkyway@home. So if you want the most crunching points in BOINC, ATI cards are the best. Video conversion is the same on both cards (both inferior in quality to CPUs). HD quality H.264 and Blu-Ray, still superior on ATI cards.

3D gaming? Wake me up in 10 years when people can afford 3x 24 inch 120hz monitors + 3D glasses. 3D gaming will take off when we don't need to wear glasses and there are actually good 120hz monitors one can buy for $200.

Tessellation - the feature ATI cards had 9 months ago, which you never touted as beneficial over GTX285 . It is the most important feature of DX11. So far, unfortunately, it is poorly executed in both STALKER, AvP and Metro 2033. With Tessellation we were promised amazing graphical improvements: http://www.dvhardware.net/news/2010/nvidia_dx11_waves_demo.jpg

Instead we got this: http://www.ixbt.com/video3/images/juniper/rv840_tess.jpg :thumbsdown: Bring on real DX11 games not DX10 games with 1 DX11 feature that was tacked on....

Reminds me of 6800GT SM3.0 and HDR. By the time SM3.0 and HDR features appeared in next generation of games, 6800GT/Ultra were ancient history, incapable of producing 30 fps. Tessellation is a forward looking feature that is more suitable for GTX470/480 SLI setups and next generation graphics cards which will run on next generation gaming engines. It's extremely important imo. However, the current gen standalone cards don't have the power to run it the way it was meant to be in games (think Univen quality).

 

[MerrickAggie97]

Im sure your dual 4870s are doing fine at that res, you could wait for Southern Islands and see how that does.

What is southern islands and when is it due? Can you link me an article that has tentative specs?

 

[bryanW1995]

Looks like some people have been spending their precious free time committing nVidia press slides to memory...

On the pricing front, the 460 is looking like a very good deal in Canada right now.

Cheapest on the Egg:

5850 - 304.99
460 1GB - 219.99

Cheapest on NCIX:

5850 - 324.99 (on back order)
460 1GB - 254.99 (on back order)

Cheapest on Tigerdirect:

5850 - 329.97
460 1GB - 290.39

All prices are from the Canadian sites, so don't vent spleen when you see different prices on the US sites.

You would be crazy to buy a 5850 in Canada right now until prices change.

Yes, and now even 470 is only $280 with a free game to go with it. looks like nvidia has forced themselves to lower prices, I wonder what amd is waiting for? Probably they just don't have enough cards for sale right now to meet demand, anyway.

 

[MerrickAggie97]

Yes, and now even 470 is only $280 with a free game to go with it. looks like nvidia has forced themselves to lower prices, I wonder what amd is waiting for? Probably they just don't have enough cards for sale right now to meet demand, anyway.

Who is selling the 470 for $280??!! I looked online and didn't find anyone.

 

[Seero]

I don't know why people are arguing, this thread is about 460, of course people are talking about 460. Won't it be a surprise if people talks about 8800 or 4890 here?

480/470 is not a bad card to begin with. The fact that people know part of the GPU isn't running makes them want to wait a bit until they can buy a GPU that they can use completely. 460 isn't as fast as 470/480, but at the same time uses less electricity and most importantly, cheaper, much cheaper. That means, those who doesn't have a 1000Watt PSU can really be thinking about an upgrade. It is true that ATI has 5830 and 5850 to compete with 460, but the cost/performance isn't right atm. If ATI is your cup of tea, then you will need to wait as ATI must react to this Nvidia product.

Here is the interesting fact which isn't about vendor war, but people can actually get 2x460 under 500 USD and use 3D surround, (or eyefinity + iz3d in ATI's terminologies.) 460sli does use more electricity then a single 480, and a single 480 can't connect to 3 displays. If 6-12 LCD isn't what you are looking for, then 460sli will be a good choice as its requirement, both PSU and wallet wise, isn't higher than those top dogs, yet performs as one.

We know that 470/480 is expensive to manufacture (3M transistors...) so the chance for a price adjustment is small. 5xxx is a cash cow in comparison, and therefore has room for price adjustment. 5870 was a good purchase for 9 months, but that is about it. If you haven't brought one yet, chances are you won't buy it ever. 5970 is simply too expensive and is getting old at the same time. ATI really need to bring in new guns soon, and with new favors too. Nvidia has 3D and PhysX, so even at same performance/price Nvidia still wins. Eyefinity is good, but Nvidia copied in 2 seconds. Nvidia has PhysX and 3D for a while now, ATI's version is no where seen. Yes they can play their "open standard" strategy to hope that one day someone will integrate/implement those for ATI, but as of now there are nothing.

If you ain't using 3 monitors, then chances are you don't need a video card upgrade if you haven't already. Dx11 was a good hype which makes people to buy stuffs, but you either have already fall for it, or is waiting for a better/cheaper replacement in the near future. 460 is a good choice as it isn't expensive and faster than the previous generation.

To stay competitive, ATI should bring the price of 5870 down to around 200 USD and 5850 under 200 USD, then people can say "ATI is cheaper yet faster!" Seriously, a 9 months old product should drop in price.

 

[v8envy]

In related news, the 'egg has 465 1gb variety for $229 AR as well. Not that it's a good buy at this price either, but there is certainly a LOT of indication that NV is firing the opening salvos in the newest price war leaving ATI shellshocked.

As far as how profitable these things are likely to be: you can see 4850s and 250s of the 1gb variety for around $110 etail with AR prices dipping to $85. The pcb and ram costs on these should be comparable to a 460. Unlike Charlie I think it's eminently possible for NV to go as low as $150 for the 1gb 460 and still make money. Once TSMC brings additional capacity on line later this summer we could be looking at $160 5850s as well.

My faithful 8800GT may only have a few short months left to keep soldiering on.

 

[MerrickAggie97]

I see the LONG awaited price drops of the 5800 series FINALLY coming...


YAY!!

 

[MerrickAggie97]

Im sure your dual 4870s are doing fine at that res, you could wait for Southern Islands and see how that does.

What is southern islands and when is it due? Can you link me an article that has tentative specs?

 

[bryanW1995]

I can just as easily say a lot of people care about PhysX and that's why game developers keep using it.

Also it's not just the 470/480 but the 460 that's better using tessellation. Even better than the 5870 in some cases.

ATI fans have to try and ignore PhysX, CUDA, 3D and Tessellation to justify their purchase. I can't think of any other fanbase that would suffer so much for their company.

AMD fans can hack physX if they want it, but it won't really take off unless/until nvidia gets amd on board with it and makes it an open standard. CUDA is great, for the few people (like me) who do DC or some other extremely specific task that benefits from it. I've honestly not researched 3d much because I could never "get it" when I was a kid and I mistakenly thought it was the same these days. However, watching avatar in 3d has convinced me that there could be some real potential in this, so I'll say that this is a "maybe in the future it could be good" like eyefinity. Tessellation is going to be very important... in a couple of years. Are we now buying video cards to future proof ourselves?

Face it, game developers are using physX because nvidia pays them to do it. Or maybe they implement a very light cpu version that can run with any gpu like dragon age did because they want to appeal to the widest market possible.

 

[RussianSensation]

Who is selling the 470 for $280??!! I looked online and didn't find anyone.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-501-_-Product

To stay competitive, ATI should bring the price of 5870 down to around 200 USD and 5850 under 200 USD, then people can say "ATI is cheaper yet faster!" Seriously, a 9 months old product should drop in price.

5870 for $200? If 5850 is $230, nevermind 5870, then it's easily back in the game. The 5850 be faster than GTX460 at stock speeds (satisfying everyone who doesnt' overclock), and it will also be faster at overclocked speeds while being more power efficient. Why in the world would anyone, other than NV fanboys, buy a GTX460 at $230 over a $230 5850? The only reason GTX460 is the card of the month is because 5850 is $300. Disregarding pricing for a moment, the performance of the GTX460 is lackluster without overclocking.

 

[MrK6]

Fair enough. Since you are bashing the 460, I must assume you own one and that's why you are so disappointed.

Surely you are not basing your opinion of it on reviews and benchmarks.

Where did I ever bash the GTX 460? Point it out. In fact, I think I called it a decent card. I find it funny that you are personally insulted by anyone who doesn't praise a NVIDIA product, to the point where you outright lie about competitive products. Furthermore, you lack the maturity and decency to apologize for this behavior. If you're trying to do your best to represent NVIDIA in a good light, it's not working.

Ask MrK6. He apparently thinks that it's ok for him to form an opinion based on reviews, but not anyone else.

It is OK to form an opinion based on reviews. It's not OK to lie about product features and capabilties in a lame attempt to fluff NVIDIA. There's a difference, one you conveniently are trying to blend or ignore, which I'm not going to let happen . I still haven't seen you reply in any of your posts "I am sorry, I was wrong, I have no idea what I was talking about and made up information that I reported as fact in order to bolster my NVIDIA-promoting agenda." Nope, I don't see that anywhere.

1920x1080 (AF is a must. AA is preferred but not absolutely necessary)

Crysis 2 and Rage are games Im looking to play in the future.

Obviously we don't know how well those run.

I would wait for the dust to settle on this one before deciding, especially, as you said, we don't know how those games will run.

Yes, and now even 470 is only $280 with a free game to go with it. looks like nvidia has forced themselves to lower prices, I wonder what amd is waiting for? Probably they just don't have enough cards for sale right now to meet demand, anyway.

Supply and demand, but unfortunately we don't have a good idea of either, and can only guess after quarter reports come out. But I can tell you, NVIDIA isn't selling GTX 470's so far below MSRP for giggles.

 

[Skurge]

What is southern islands and when is it due? Can you link me an article that has tentative specs?

http://www.yougamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129070

I don't know how accurate that road map is though.

 

[bryanW1995]

That's funny you say that. If I was going to buy an NV graphics card right now, all those 4 features you listed are useless to me. Performance, price, noise and power consumption is where it's at. This is why GTX460 is a good card. Those 4 features you listed sure weren't selling truck loads of GTX465/470 and 480 cards....

PhysX, a gimmick that has no impact on games? You've been singing the same tune for 3 years. There is not a single game where PhysX is a must have feature (not yet at least, maybe Mafia 2 can change that). I'll take more realistic physics in BF:BC2 for now instead of Batman. Crysis 2 will show us how physics should be done without PhysX.

CUDA? Not really. ATI cards embarrass NV in Milkyway@home. So if you want the most crunching points in BOINC, ATI cards are the best. Video conversion is the same on both cards (both inferior in quality to CPUs). HD quality H.264 and Blu-Ray, still superior on ATI cards.

3D gaming? Wake me up in 10 years when people can afford 3x 24 inch 120hz monitors + 3D glasses. 3D gaming will take off when we don't need to wear glasses and there are actually good 120hz monitors one can buy for $200.

Tessellation - the feature ATI cards had 9 months ago, which you never touted as beneficial over GTX285 . It is the most important feature of DX11. So far, unfortunately, it is poorly executed in both STALKER, AvP and Metro 2033. With Tessellation we were promised amazing graphical improvements: http://www.dvhardware.net/news/2010/nvidia_dx11_waves_demo.jpg

Instead we got this: http://www.ixbt.com/video3/images/juniper/rv840_tess.jpg :thumbsdown: Bring on real DX11 games not DX10 games with 1 DX11 feature that was tacked on....

Reminds me of 6800GT SM3.0 and HDR. By the time SM3.0 and HDR features appeared in next generation of games, 6800GT/Ultra were ancient history, incapable of producing 30 fps. Tessellation is a forward looking feature that is more suitable for GTX470/480 SLI setups and next generation graphics cards which will run on next generation gaming engines. It's extremely important imo. However, the current gen standalone cards don't have the power to run it the way it was meant to be in games (think Univen quality).

interesting, I didn't know about the boinc benefits of amd cards. how do they do in seti?

Originally Posted by Skurge
Im sure your dual 4870s are doing fine at that res, you could wait for Southern Islands and see how that does.

Originally Posted by MerrickAggie97
What is southern islands and when is it due? Can you link me an article that has tentative specs?

SI is the psuedo next-gen amd card, supposed to be out in the q4 '10 or q1 '11 time period. It was originally going to be called northern islands and be on 28nm, but tsmc has had so many problems that they are stuck using 40nm again and can only incorporate SOME of the improvements. I would guess that it will be more than the jump from 4870 to 4890 but less than the jump from 3870 to 4870. they are moving their manufacturing over to global foundries for the next gen.

Nvidia should also have an improved fermi out in q1 '10/q4 '11, so you'll have some good choices if you wait a few months instead of just settling for a slight improvement.

Who is selling the 470 for $280??!! I looked online and didn't find anyone.

newegg. go to gtx 470 page, several of them have "click here for price" instead of an actual price because they are being sold too low for nvidia's taste.

 

[Grooveriding]

1920x1080 (AF is a must. AA is preferred but not absolutely necessary)

Crysis 2 and Rage are games Im looking to play in the future.

Obviously we don't know how well those run.

Rage will not be a hard hit on graphics, it's primarily being designed console first and carried over to PC. Looking at what we saw of it at E3, a 5850 would be able to max it out at your resolution.

Crysis 2 is the mystery. I've been looking around for some actual PC gameplay footage and can't find any. All I turn up are PC screenshots and console gameplay videos. We do know they are going DX11 for Crysis 2. Crysis came out in 2007 and we finally were able to play the game on maximum settings with 4X-8XAA at 1920x1200 in September of last year with the release of the 5870 cards.

Going on screenshots and Crytek's track record, I don't think anything will be able to run C2 at it's max settings with full AA at a high res when it's released. We'll probably have to wait another two years for hardware that can manage it

I think you can be confident that a 460/470/480 or 5850/5870 will be able to deliver playable framerates and decent visuals with a little AA at your resolution though.

 

[bryanW1995]

his problem is that he's already using xfire'd 4870's. sli gtx 460 probably isn't necessary when in a few months he'll be able to get the 460's cheaper or maybe spend the same on a much-improved 6 series or fermi 2 card.

 

[MerrickAggie97]

his problem is that he's already using xfire'd 4870's. sli gtx 460 probably isn't necessary when in a few months he'll be able to get the 460's cheaper or maybe spend the same on a much-improved 6 series or fermi 2 card.

Well the answer is that there will always be something better on the horizon. I originally told myself that the only way I would upgrade is when there is finally a single card (single GPU) solution that is faster than my current 4870-512MB xfire setup.

the geforce 460 doesnt seem to be that.

 

[RussianSensation]

interesting, I didn't know about the boinc benefits of amd cards. how do they do in seti?

I am pretty sure NV is still better for SETI. The reason ATI cards were unable to outperform NV in BOINC projects is because both Seti and Folding were written many many years ago using outdated coding. Milkyway uses a more modern programming code that takes advantage of double precision. GTX480 is about 4x slower than the 5870: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2064356

Just to give you an idea how fast ATI cards are when running modern distributed computing projects such as Milkyway and Collatz Conjecture:

5870 = 230,000 ppd in Milkyway@home
4890 = 115,000 BOINC ppd in Milkyway@home
GTX480 = 20,000 ppd in Folding@home
Core i7 860 @ 3.9ghz = 9,000 ppd in Seti@home

So from a performance perspective, when running modern double precision code, NV is far far behind in distributed computing power. GTX480 is 1/8th of the processing power in double precision compared to single precision. http://www.vizworld.com/2010/04/geforce-gtx-480-18supthsup-double-precision-performance/

There is a new version of Folding@home in the works. According to a blog by project leader, Folding@home in its third generation of GPU code will adopt OpenMM, Standford's open molecular model. Next in the works is bringing OpenCL support into the OpenMM library, resulting in OpenCL-acceleration for all GPU cards, including previously non-supported parts [but OpenCL-supporting], such as Quadro CX, FirePro and the like.

 

[Seero]

5870 for $200? If 5850 is $230, nevermind 5870, then it's easily back in the game. The 5850 be faster than GTX460 at stock speeds (satisfying everyone who doesnt' overclock), and it will also be faster at overclocked speeds while being more power efficient. Why in the world would anyone, other than NV fanboys, buy a GTX460 at $230 over a $230 5850? The only reason GTX460 is the card of the month is because 5850 is $300. Disregarding pricing for a moment, the performance of the GTX460 is lackluster without overclocking.

Lets assume 5850 and 460 are both selling at 230. You believe that ONLY Nvidia fanboys will purchase 460 over 5850. It would be wise to buy a card that doesn't support 3D without a proprietary combo from a 3rd party, spend extra dollars on displayport adeptor to connect with your existing LCDs, and no PhysX support. 5850 isn't a bad card, but I don't see how is it better than 460.

Let say they are equal, you really will prefer a product that was released sept, 2009 over something that is released July, 2010 at the same price? Is there really an argument here?

If 5850 is actually cheaper, some may choose to ditch those 3D and physX crap, but that isn't the case. With a lesser price I get a newer product that comes with more features. Does this look like a valid argument to you?

 

[Seero]

I am pretty sure NV is still better for SETI. The reason ATI cards were unable to outperform NV in BOINC projects is because both Seti and Folding were written many many years ago using outdated coding. Milkyway uses a more modern programming code that takes advantage of double precision. GTX480 is about 4x slower than the 5870: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2064356

Just to give you an idea how fast ATI cards are when running modern distributed computing projects:

5870 = 230,000 ppd in Milkyway@home
4890 = 115,000 BOINC ppd in Milkyway@home
GTX480 = 20,000 ppd in Folding@home
Core i7 860 @ 3.9ghz = 9,000 ppd in Seti@home

So from a performance perspective, when running modern double precision code, NV is far far behind in distributed computing power. GTX480 is 1/8th of the processing power in double precision compared to single precision. http://www.vizworld.com/2010/04/geforce-gtx-480-18supthsup-double-precision-performance/

Anandtech's article

 

[bryanW1995]

Lets assume 5850 and 460 are both selling at 230. You believe that ONLY Nvidia fanboys will purchase 460 over 5850. It would be wise to buy a card that doesn't support 3D without a proprietary combo from a 3rd party, spend extra dollars on displayport adeptor to connect with your existing LCDs, and no PhysX support. 5850 isn't a bad card, but I don't see how is it better than 460.

Let say they are equal, you really will prefer a product that was released sept, 2009 over something that is released July, 2010 at the same price? Is there really an argument here?

If 5850 is actually cheaper, some may choose to ditch those 3D and physX crap, but that isn't the case. With a lesser price I get a newer product that comes with more features. Does this look like a valid argument to you?

ROTFLMAO

the reason taht 5850 was released sept 09 and gtx 460 came out in july '10 was that amd didn't have their thumb up their butt trying to cater to 2-3% of the market instead of the gaming community. well, that and their strong process advantage. they are both first gen dx 11 products. nvidia is calling it gf104 to differentiate it as the midrange instead of high end gpu for first gen fermi. This is a very poor argument to make.

However, a much stronger argument to make is that it's $60 cheaper than 5850 and is only 5-10% slower. Also, and that gap narrows further and it might even be faster than 5850 in a dual card configuration. There's no need to resort to the traditional nvidia fud when this card actually beats the crap out of its competition in a price/performance basis.

 

[golem]

The only reason GTX460 is the card of the month is because 5850 is $300. Disregarding pricing for a moment, the performance of the GTX460 is lackluster without overclocking.

I don't think you can disregard pricing at all. Otherwise ALL cards, besides the fastest could be considered lack luster.

 

[RussianSensation]

It would be wise to buy a card that doesn't support 3D without a proprietary combo from a 3rd party, spend extra dollars on displayport adeptor to connect with your existing LCDs, and no PhysX support.

3D gaming is marketing whether it comes from NV or ATI. Are you going to buy $150 3D glasses? Are you going to throw out your 24-37 inch LCD monitor and get a brand new 120hz monitor right now? If you are going to spend nearly $700 upgrading for 3D gaming, are you really concerned with GTX460 1GB?

You need a display port adapter only if you want to use 3 LCDs with 1 ATI card. Similarly, if you want 3 LCDs, you'd need to buy 2 NV graphics cards. Both expensive setups.

Anandtech's article

What does this have to do with Distributed Computer projects? NV's non-professional graphics cards can't compete in double precision DC work. They lack the double precision power (other than Tesla) to keep up. Hopefully with the next generation they will improve.

I don't think you can disregard pricing at all. Otherwise ALL cards, besides the fastest could be considered lack luster.

I am saying that at $230 GTX460 is a good card given the current pricing structure. But if you bought a 4890/GTX275 for $200 12 months ago, or 5850 for $300 9 months ago, then GTX460 is lackluster. In fairness to GTX460, the whole generation has been pretty underwhelming due to lack of competitiveness by NV. Where do you think 5870's pricing would be by now if Fermi was released in October of 2009? Surely not at $390 9 months later. There was a reason ATI priced 5850 at $259 at launch -- they expected NV to have something competitive.

 

[MerrickAggie97]

I don't think you can disregard pricing at all. Otherwise ALL cards, besides the fastest could be considered lack luster.

Agreed. Nevertheless, I really hope AMD drops the price of the 5800 series to cheap.