Gtx 460 reviews thread

[bryanW1995]

I wonder how much memory bandwidth will limit the 460 when overclocking. sure, a 25% oc on the core is nice, but if the memory is the limiting factor and it only oc's 10-15 % then that makes it even more likely that 5850 will oc at least close to the same amount.


edit: tviceman or one of the mods should put all of the links in the OP.

 

[Lonyo]

I wonder how much memory bandwidth will limit the 460 when overclocking. sure, a 25% oc on the core is nice, but if the memory is the limiting factor and it only oc's 10-15 % then that makes it even more likely that 5850 will oc at least close to the same amount.


edit: tviceman or one of the mods should put all of the links in the OP.

Should be simple to test, adjust different clockspeeds

What I want to see is what the ROP impact is i.e. equalise the RAM bandwidth of a 1GB and a 768MB card, do some testing at various resolutions, trying to limit the impact of the reduced RAM, and see how much of a hit they take purely from the ROPs rather than from the decreased memory bandwidth.
That would answer the question of whether they are bandwidth limited or ROP limited with the 768MB cards, and could make it easier to decide which is better from an overclocking perspective.

 

[Voo]

Who's really going to buy a single one of either card for 2560x1600?
The only resolution really worth comparing them at is 1920x1200 or lower (unless you do Crossfire/SLI).

Yep, that's just pointless, neither card is powerful enough for 2560x1600 - who cares about 20% more performance, if it's still unplayable?

The question for OCing is, when we'll get a way to adjust voltage on those cards..

 

[bryanW1995]

5850 is actually pretty decent at 25x16, about as good as gtx 470 anyway. If you OC it a bit it becomes even better, too. gtx 460/5, otoh, probably wouldn't even be considered at that res.

Anybody else notice the oc'd 460 article on AT? Is this the first time that evga has offered different warranty on the same card? Here's the link:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3810/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-part-2-the-vendor-cards/2

 

[RussianSensation]

Yep, that's just pointless, neither card is powerful enough for 2560x1600 - who cares about 20% more performance, if it's still unplayable?

Just like GTX460 which can get a 35% overclock, 5850 can overclock from 725mhz to 950mhz-1000mhz to get a 30-35% overclock. The difference is 5870 is a very fast card, esp. once you consider that 5870 is far faster than the GTX470 when the load increases.

Performing better at 2560x1600 also means that 5850@ 5870 speeds will do better in more intensive games down the line.

From Legion Hardware review @ 2560x1600:

Mass Effect 2
GTX460 1GB = 29 fps
5850 1GB = 47 fps (+62%)

BF:BC2
GTX460 1GB = 28 fps
5850 1GB = 38 fps (+36%)

Splinter Cell Conviction
GTX460 1GB = 28 fps
5850 1GB = 36 fps (+29%)

Now add another 25% of performance to those numbers because that's how fast 5850 will be @ 5870 speeds at 2560x1600. For $250, 5850 will be a better buy than the GTX460 1GB at $230. At $300 for 5850, GTX460 is the better buy.

 

[Voo]

Now add another 25% of performance to those numbers because that's how fast 5850 will be @ 5870 speeds at 2560x1600. For $250, 5850 will be a better buy than the GTX460 1GB at $230.

Yeah I'd love to play Stalker or other modern games at 20fps average - with probably minimums in the single digits.
The 5850 surely is the better card at 2560x1600, but the market for people who buy a 1000$ monitor and then want to play with a 250$ GPU seems rather negligible.

And if future games will benefit more from the 5850 architecture or the 460 depends on what they're stressing, but another 25% extra performance gain when the 460 drivers have much more optimization potential than the 5850 ones (GF104 is different enough from GF100 to assume that there are some optimization potentials there, while Ati had almost a year now to optimize their cards), I doubt it.

 

[bryanW1995]

what's happening here is the hype is taking over a bit, kind of like when 4850/70 came out a few years ago. everybody thought that those cards were going to be more midrange, especially when you looked at the price and their supposed competitors. remember that 4870 launched at the same price as 9800gtx was at the time, with 4850 $100 less ($299 and $199 iirc). We now have a truly decent, even good card(s) from nvidia, and because of this we should finally get some more reasonable prices on midrange offerings like 5850 and 5830. just don't go bonkers and think that gtx 460 is going to be a viable 5850 alternative for somebody gaming at higher resolutions. Hopefully when the gtx 460 1gb finally comes out it will be in enough volume to force amd to drop prices on 5850 to their original msrp.

 

[MrK6]

Who's really going to buy a single one of either card for 2560x1600?
The only resolution really worth comparing them at is 1920x1200 or lower (unless you do Crossfire/SLI).

Ummm... me? The 5850 runs everything I throw at it at 2560x1600 very well, I don't know where you're getting that from.

If retail versions of these cards clock as well as what's been shown in reviews, I think upper mid-range buyers might have something to purchase for 1680x1050 and 1920x1080/1200. Although for me, I'd still much rather pick up a 5850 at $250-260 for 1920x1200, as I think the extra $30 or so is well worth the performance increase.

 

[Skurge]

in the hardwarecanuks review the GTX460 does pretty badly in metro2033. Here's hoping its just a driver issue.

 

[cbn]

Power consumption is the main concern for me though. I don't give a shit about the cost, but under load, it uses 50-ish W more than the 5850 (IIRC).

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-the-200-king/16

460 GTX uses more power than HD5850 but the difference is a lot smaller than 50 watts.

What I find interesting is that 460 GTX uses 60 less watts than 465 GTX, but delivers higher FPS.

 

[RussianSensation]

Yeah I'd love to play Stalker or other modern games at 20fps average - with probably minimums in the single digits.

I listed 3 popular modern games above that get far above 20 fps but you conveniently chose to ignore them.

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/...tx_460/17/#abschnitt_stalker__call_of_pripyat

2560x1600 STALKER:
GTX480 = 46.4
5870 = 42.2
GTX460 = 27.7

If 5850 was only $20 more expensive than GTX460 1GB, and you were intended on overclocking the GTX460, then you would be just as content on overclocking the 5850. That $20 extra dollars is going to buy you a lot more than 10% performance increase out of the overclocked 5850.

5870 1GB often nips on the heels of the GTX 480 at 2560x1600 and is perfectly playable in a lot of games: http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/...geforce_gtx_460/7/#abschnitt_call_of_duty_mw2

So now you are basically saying that who cares about 20% more performance for $20....yet GTX480 and 5870 are only 20%-25% faster than a 5850.....you do realize that GTX460 OCed to 850mhz = 5850 stock right? That means the extra $20 on top of the GTX460 will get you guaranteed GTX 460 OCed to 850mhz performance and an option for 5870's performance which currently costs $400.

All this is pointless, however, until ATI lowers pricing.

 

[bryanW1995]

yes, that's the real problem here. I wonder if nvidia didn't have 2 versions of the gtx 460 so that they could paper launch the 1gb card with significantly less criticism? gtx 460 looks to be a very good card with a reasonable price, but until it is out in volume it's not going to have any impact on 5850 pricing.

I agree with russiansensation that 5850 for $250 would be more appealing or certainly at least AS appealing as gtx 460 for $229, but what about 5850 for $279-$30 MIR? that's much more likely, and considering the inevitable 2-4 month delay in receiving your mir (if at all) gtx 460 is probably going to be $229 or more for a while. In fact, what happens if gtx 460 pulls the same stunt as 58x0 and starts going UP in msrp?

edit: the more I think about it the more I think that gtx 460 1gb WILL sell for above msrp for a while. Let's look at the facts:

1. gtx 460 is a paper launch, according to anand it will be at least 2 weeks before we see the cards
2. amd is selling all the 5850's extremely well and many major resellers are having trouble keeping them in stock

Thank god my gtx 260 is still getting the job done, this market sucks.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Barely any better than 4890 and costs much more. Lame. Guess I will still wait for upgrade.

 

[Xellos2099]

Thats hard to say because some benchmarks are direct x 11 vs the gtx 275's direct x 10.
I'd say about 15/20% faster.
If I had a gtx 275, I wouldn't upgrade unless I planned to overclock the gtx 460 to the max.

Edit: AHHH, me and the russian think alike

In short, there is only about 20% difference between a GTX 275 and a stock GTX460 756mb version. I am currently running dual 22 inch monitor so I guess I am no real need to upgrade my card. The only game that I really play on pc in near future are Starcraft II and Final Fantasy xiv, nothign my 275 can't handle. Not to mention I am evga card, so in case I rma it later in the road I might get a 460 in return.

 

[scooterlibby]

I remember reading something on BSON (yes, I know) about a high end card threoteically being possible with the GF014. As in a 485 with all 512 SP's and reasonable power consumption. That would be nice!

 

[lopri]

Barely any better than 4890 and costs much more. Lame. Guess I will still wait for upgrade.

Well, 4890's launch price was $300. Yes, you could get it cheaper later on but the same can happen to GTX 460. And remember that there were times when $300 was considered "mid-range" in this volatile market. And at other times, we would get pretty abysmal mid-range cards - think 8600 GT or HD 2600 - for $200+. The GTX 460, just like the HD 5770, provides last generation's top performance at affordable prices, and there are other factors that make these new mid-range cards desirable. I think Ryan sums it up correctly.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-the-200-king/18

I think the only way to come across from this launch at all disappointed is when looking at the overall performance levels of the card. The GTX 460 does not completely subdue last year’s $200 cards, and this is part of a larger pattern. DX11 functionality requires additional die space over DX10 functionality, so most of the additional transistors afforded by the transition to 40nm fabrication has been spent on that functionality rather than on improving performance. As a result this year’s $200 cards aren’t a great deal faster than last year’s cards; this isn’t the high-end market where GPU dies (and prices) had room to grow. For everything but the high-end, this year is a feature year and not a performance year.

I was going to replace my HD 4890 with an HD 5770 when HD 5870 was hard to find (though I did find one by accident), and I'm planning to replace my GTX 280 with a GTX 460. And I have a 30" monitor, too.

 

[GaiaHunter]

what's happening here is the hype is taking over a bit

Man its a conspiracy - someone forgot to pm you? - we are trying to push price drops so we need to hype the gtx 460. (I'm not patronizing you. )

It is a better card than a 5830/GTX465 for sure. Of course those were turds.

I rate the 5850 higher than both. And all those "oh the GTX 470 is equal to the 5870 and much faster than the 5850" aren't true. They are pretty close but that is about it.

At least we are getting last year prices for 4890/GTX275 performance now.

 

[edplayer]

edit: the more I think about it the more I think that gtx 460 1gb WILL sell for above msrp for a while. Let's look at the facts:

1. gtx 460 is a paper launch, according to anand it will be at least 2 weeks before we see the cards

Did you check any of those "facts"?

GTX 460 is available right now. How many retailers have you checked.

I checked newegg last night and it looked like they sold out of one of their 1GB versions. This morning both were sold out. Last night none of the models had free shipping. Today, all of them do (and the prices did not go up).

1GB versions are still available at Tigerdirect. Whom also offers 13.2% bing cashback, meaning you can get one as low as $174 w free shipping

 

[Voo]

So now you are basically saying that who cares about 20% more performance for $20....yet GTX480 and 5870 are only 20%-25% faster than a 5850...

I'm not sure where I said anything about the 480 or 5870, maybe next throw in the 5970 or 8800GT as well?
No what I said is, that most people who're interested in <300$ cards just won't be using 1200$+ monitors. Why spend a premium on the monitor and then buy a midrange GPU that's at most capable of playing games at low settings?

Stalker 1920x1200 @high settings from the computerbase article:
460: 29.4
5850: 28

That's the interesting benchmark for most people who're interested in those cards, or how many people you think will buy a single 5850/460 to play at 2560x1600.. 5%? 3%? Probably much less than that.
(Though for lots of people 30 avg. fps is on the low side, for those the benchmark without AA may be more interesting.. there it looks completely different once again)

If we're looking at benchmarks I think we should stay with the reasonable ones that represent what the vast majority of people will want to use the cards for and that's surely not 2560x1600.

What's the faster card? The 5850, no question about that and if it's priced accordingly it's a great card, but we'll have to see how Ati prices it.. though that depends on how many 1gb cards there will be, hopefully we don't end up with only 768mb ones

 

[tviceman]

edit: tviceman or one of the mods should put all of the links in the OP.

Done.

 

[Genx87]

How would a 448 shader part with the same design look? It could be Nvidia will finally do away with a single large core that does Tesla and gaming?

 

[Grooveriding]

Just like GTX460 which can get a 35&#37; overclock, 5850 can overclock from 725mhz to 950mhz-1000mhz to get a 30-35% overclock. The difference is 5870 is a very fast card, esp. once you consider that 5870 is far faster than the GTX470 when the load increases.

Performing better at 2560x1600 also means that 5850@ 5870 speeds will do better in more intensive games down the line.

From Legion Hardware review @ 2560x1600:

Mass Effect 2
GTX460 1GB = 29 fps
5850 1GB = 47 fps (+62%)

BF:BC2
GTX460 1GB = 28 fps
5850 1GB = 38 fps (+36%)

Splinter Cell Conviction
GTX460 1GB = 28 fps
5850 1GB = 36 fps (+29%)

Now add another 25% of performance to those numbers because that's how fast 5850 will be @ 5870 speeds at 2560x1600. For $250, 5850 will be a better buy than the GTX460 1GB at $230. At $300 for 5850, GTX460 is the better buy.

This is a given, the 460 is not a card designed for 2560x1600, but for 1920x1200 and down it does look pretty nice considering it's price.

From my experience there are some cases at that resolution where 1GB of vram is not enough, so that definitely puts out the 460.

I think the 460 is a great card for what it is targeted at. Give nv some credit for finally putting out one decent Fermi card

 

[Lonyo]

It would have to be 480, not 448.
Maybe with a fixed memory controller they could do a 480 part with 320-bit memory bus and have it not lose too much mem bandwidth wise to the current cards.
25% more units, 25% more memory bus. Probably only 25% larger die size (so 85% or so of a current high end Fermi die).

A lot of what ifs though.

 

[bryanW1995]

Did you check any of those "facts"?

GTX 460 is available right now. How many retailers have you checked.

I checked newegg last night and it looked like they sold out of one of their 1GB versions. This morning both were sold out. Last night none of the models had free shipping. Today, all of them do (and the prices did not go up).

1GB versions are still available at Tigerdirect. Whom also offers 13.2% bing cashback, meaning you can get one as low as $174 w free shipping

Maybe you should have read the Anandtech article:

Today’s launch will be a mixed bag in terms of availability. $199 has long been known to be a critical price point with buyers, which is what makes this card so important for NVIDIA as it allows them to finally tap that market once more. However to get there they’re using their entire initial run of GF104 to build the 768MB versions of the GTX 460. There should be plenty of 768MB cards available for today’s launch, but the bulk of 1GB cards are roughly 2 weeks late (1 or 2 may show up early if the vendor does rush shipping). So what we have is a hard launch for the GTX 460 768MB, but a soft launch for the GTX 460 1GB. We’re not entirely thrilled with this – particularly as we believe the 1GB cards to be the better buy – but if nothing else it’s better than the GTX 480 launch.

maybe "paper launch" was too harsh, I should have said a "pillsbury dough boy launch". sorry.

 

[edplayer]

I hope so. Comparing power consumption/performance on these cards might give us some good insight on the state of Nvidia's 40nm process technology. (either that or it will a good indicator of how optimizing a card for gaming affects efficiency)

I think that you and I are the only regular posters who really care about power consumption. In that aspect, I think the GTX 460 is OK only. Compared to the 470/480 is looks good, but overall, I'd call it only OK.