GTX 470 SLI or 5970?

[lt_wentoncha]

Howdy all,

Alrighty, I'm getting impatient waiting for the GTX 480 to get out there. Rather than pay the $1000 people want on eBay (btw, to all you eBayers out there, real classy, buy a high
demand card so you can gouge).

I digress, what's the way to go, GTX 470 SLI or 5970? Two GTX 470s and one 5970 are priced the same. I told myself I would never do SLI, but damnation every vender is talking early may for the GTX 480.

I tried listing the Pros/Cons below...as you can see, there is a gap in my ATI knowledge. The only thing that's preventing me from jumping on board with the 5970 is Physx.

Target System:
*i7 930
*GA X58A-UD-5
*I have a GT 240 that I was going to pair up with the GTX 480 b/c I don't think it can do three monitors alone, might keep it strictly for Physx unless there's a bottleneck
*G.Skill PI 6GB DDR3 (1600) 7-8-7-24
*Crucial/Micron C300 128 GB SSD
*1x LG BR Writer
*2x 1 TB drives
*Hauppauge Win-TV 1850 Tv Tuner
*Corsair H50 Heatsink
*2x 120mm case fans
*Powering it all: Corsair 850TX

GTX 470 SLI
Pros
+Physx support
Cons
-Heat
-PSU (slizone oks the PSU...I'm not quite sure but there 72A on the 12+ rail)
5970
Pros
+???
Cons
-???

Chipset
Chipset Manufacturer NVIDIA
GPU GeForce GTX 470 (Fermi)
Core Clock 607MHz
Shader Clock 1215MHz
Stream Processors 448 Processor Cores
Memory
Effective Memory Clock 3348MHz
Memory Size 1280MB
Memory Interface 320-bit
Memory Type GDDR5

Chipset
Chipset Manufacturer ATI
GPU Radeon HD 5970 (Hemlock)
Stream Processors 3200 (1600 x 2) Stream Processing Units
Memory
Memory Size 2GB
Memory Interface 512 (256 x 2)-bit
Memory Type GDDR5

 

[zerocool84]

It has been discussed on these boards very much that if Physx is important to you then go with it. Physx has practically zero impact on gaming and the Physx effects in games are not that great either and it doesn't look like that's going to change in the future either. If you think it's important then go Nvidia.

 

[Keysplayr]

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru.../30999-nvidia-geforce-gtx-470-sli-review.html

470 SLI seems consistently faster than 5970, and often trades blows with 5870 Crossfire.
Look through the whole review and also look at the minimum framerates.

There are other reviews for this. I'll find them and post em up.

470 SLI
Draws much more power than 5970
Generates more heat than 5970
Has more performance than 5970
Has PhysX
Superior Tesselation power over 5970 (Supposed to be big in coming titles as well as a few out already)

 

[jbh545]

Don't blame ebay, blame supply and demand. The few cards on ebay didn't keep you from getting one. In fact, the 480 wasn't hard to get at all if you were flexible on vendor. It's better that cards are on ebay so that people who have money and want them at least have the option of buying them.

 

[Attic]

The ebay gouging is not a good thing, it's a bad thing because it's artifically creating high prices. That's not good for the consumer, and if the ebay gouging were a large scale organized thing by an individual or corporation it may even be illegal.


Keys brings up good points. I have not seen any definitive benchmarks showing gameplay in real games with tess on vs off and the performance hit it has on a 480 vs a 5870. This I would find interesting, the nvidia tess demo's and Heaven 2.0 are not good for judging the actual affect of tessalation performance in real games, current or upcoming.

From what i've read, enabling tess in Metro 2033 hurts both the 480 and the 5870.... but by how much? If it drops the 480 by 20%, and the 5870 drops by 25%, that's not really a big deal.

Also if Physx is important then go 470 route.

Edit: 5850xfire may be best bang for the buck, deserves attention as well IMO.

 

[Apocalypse23]

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru.../30999-nvidia-geforce-gtx-470-sli-review.html

470 SLI seems consistently faster than 5970, and often trades blows with 5870 Crossfire.
Look through the whole review and also look at the minimum framerates.

There are other reviews for this. I'll find them and post em up.

470 SLI
Draws much more power than 5970
Generates more heat than 5970
Has more performance than 5970
Has PhysX
Superior Tesselation power over 5970 (Supposed to be big in coming titles as well as a few out already)

I'm 100% positive that the 1GB 5970 can easily oc to 850/1200 5870 stock speeds to = a 5870 CF performance.

 

[Apocalypse23]

OP: get a asus/Msi 5970 and OC it mildly, you will be a happy camper. Performance should then = a 5870CF.

A while ago I tested some mild to moderate overclocking on my Asus 5970, I got it rock stable at 850/1200 @1.162V. It can go higher but I'm fine here for now.

 

[jbh545]

The ebay gouging is not a good thing, it's a bad thing because it's artifically creating high prices. That's not good for the consumer, and if the ebay gouging were a large scale organized thing by an individual or corporation it may even be illegal.

ROFL, this is America, not Soviet Russia. Tell me what statute would potentially make it illegal to buy and resell video cards. You need to do some self-study of basic economic principles. Having less than 1% of the total 480s auctioned off doesn't artificially create high prices. In fact, the auctions are where the cards adjust to their true price based on supply and demand. The MSRP is the "artificial" price since it didn't keep supply and demand in equilibrium, otherwise the cards wouldn't be sold out. Accepting your logic also requires favoring moronic policies like rent control, which has turned NYC into a disaster. I suppose in your perfect world the cards would be sold out *everywhere* with no option for people who want to pay a bit more to get them before others who don't value them as highly.

As to the OP, I would recommend a 5970 for 1920x1200 gaming or hold out for a pair of 480s if you play at 2560x1600. I've had the opportunity to test out 3 different 5970. All three would fairly easily hit 850-900 on the core with voltage at 1.162. Going higher introduced a weird sort of microstutter on all three. The FPS didn't drop but a camera panning across a scene would slow down for a second, then surge ahead to where it should have been. Without tweaking memory voltage (which is annoying because afterburner won't do it and the utility that does it won't save the voltage on reboot), the cards hit 1150/1170/1200 stably. At 850/1200 a 5970 will still be somewhat slower than 5870 crossfire.

edit: oh, and the XFX and Sapphire did NOT have manual fan control. You NEED this for a 5970 since the default profile will cook an OCed card and make it throttle. Hopefully they fixed this since then. The Diamond does have manual control.

 

[Shmee]

I am considering a 5970/5870, or fermi, down the road. Just when Ocing the 5970, a custom cooler may be very important for cooling the vrms.

And ya, make sure it is cool enough, either with manual fan control, or water block. as mentioned above.

From what I hear, the hemlock chips are very good ocers at moderate voltage, just need to be cooled, and dont forget the VRMs.

Still, the fermi cards seem to be getting better OC results as of late, but they still use more power than ever.

 

[Mona2010]

I think 5970 is better in all the reviews between them.

 

[Qbah]

If you really want PhysX, go nVidia (kinda obvious). If you don't care about PhysX go with the HD5970. It's faster and takes a LOT less power. That Hardware Canucs review is way off - they show a GTX480 matching a HD5970 in Dirt 2 for example where that's not the case in every other review. Looks like they did something wrong with the Radeons - I wouldn't put any value in those numbers. Too bad there seem to be no other reviews for the GTX470 SLI. A quick search didn't yield any meaningful results...

 

[Keysplayr]

I'm 100% positive that the 1GB 5970 can easily oc to 850/1200 5870 stock speeds to = a 5870 CF performance.

That would take care of equalling and slightly surpassing GTX470s for sure.
Now, o/c the 470's.

I'm not sure why you're introducing overclocking into a purchasing decision when both options overclock. So since that is the case, might as well focus on stock performance between the two solutions.

Qbah: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2977/...x-470-6-months-late-was-it-worth-the-wait-/16

Looks right on the money to me. How about you?

 

[Grooveriding]

5970 or 5850 crossfire is superior to 470 SLI, the hardware canucks review is skewed, hence why it was the one pointed out to you by our resident nv marketer :thumbsdown:

 

[Keysplayr]

5970 or 5850 crossfire is superior to 470 SLI, the hardware canucks review is skewed, hence why it was the one pointed out to you by our resident nv marketer :thumbsdown:

Actually Groover, it was the only 470SLI review I've found. There aren't any others yet. Yet you say I picked the only one that was skewed compared to all others. WHAT others? Yes, I tried google, and HWC is the only full review and all other hits just point to HWC. And 470SLI is superior to 5970 and close in performance to 5870Crossfire but generally slower.

Next time, try not to mud sling until you've looked at the data. ALL the data.
I'm looking at what I can see, as you are, and you come up with the conclusion out of thin air, that 5970 and 5870 Crossfire is superior to 470SLI. You were only 50% correct. 5870 Crossfire is faster the majority of the time.

 

[Insomniator]

I think you should just wait two weeks for a 480 if you really want one. 2 weeks is worth the wait on a card that'll be used for 2+ years...

 

[Qbah]

Qbah: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2977/...x-470-6-months-late-was-it-worth-the-wait-/16

Looks right on the money to me. How about you?

Whoops... Looks like somehow I managed to misread that. I think I was comparing 25x16 @ AT to 19x12 on HC... Sorry!

Well then OP, if you don't care about power usage and heat, by all means go with GTX470 SLI. The speed and features are all there.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

ATI 5xxx series

Cons: GSOD still around

 

[Keysplayr]

Whoops... Looks like somehow I managed to misread that. I think I was comparing 25x16 @ AT to 19x12 on HC... Sorry!

Well then OP, if you don't care about power usage and heat, by all means go with GTX470 SLI. The speed and features are all there.

No worries. I did the same exact thing at first.

 

[epidemis]

That would take care of equalling and slightly surpassing GTX470s for sure.
Now, o/c the 470's.

I'm not sure why you're introducing overclocking into a purchasing decision when both options overclock. So since that is the case, might as well focus on stock performance between the two solutions.

Qbah: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2977/...x-470-6-months-late-was-it-worth-the-wait-/16

Looks right on the money to me. How about you?

The difference is how overclock friendly is it. The 5970 are dual dies of down clocked 5870 dies, to fit within a certain spec. 470 GTX are binned chips with disabled SPs.

I have no comment about the 470 SLi review by hardware cannuck, but I noticed when I read it the first time, their 470 solo review didnt match what other sites had. But Nvidia SLI scales extremely well.


To the OP, why don't you just settle for a single GPU? We're pretty late in the GPU cycle anyway, conserve cash for the next generation ^^

 

[Keysplayr]

The difference is how overclock friendly is it. The 5970 are dual dies of down clocked 5870 dies, to fit within a certain spec. 470 GTX are binned ships with disabled SPs.

I have no comment about the 470 SLi review by hardware cannuck, but I noticed when I read it the first time, their 470 solo review didnt match what other sites had.


To the OP, why don't you just settle for a single GPU? We're pretty late in the GPU cycle anyway, conserve cash for the next generation ^^

"The 5970 are dual dies of down clocked 5870 dies" that are already pushing the so equipped VRM's pretty hard. YMMV with o/c'ing just as anybody.
And what difference does it make if the 470 has disabled SP's? I'm not following you there?
I thought we were looking at actual performance. In which case, the 470's, disabled shaders and all, outperform 5970 and approaches, sometimes equals, and sometimes exceeds Crossfired 5870's which run a full on 850MHz cores. And not to mention the additional 1/4 GB (256MB) of framebuffer you'll get with the 470's. In which case we could compare to the yet to be released 4GB 5970, which I'll bet would be pricier than the current 5970. Adding another 2GB isn't free. So, my recommendation between a 5970 and GTX470's? GTX470's. They use more power and generate more heat. Those are the downsides. Upsides are The are faster than 5970 for the same price, and approach 5870Xfire quite often, and extra 256MB of frame buffer (1280 vs. 1024MB), PhysX (matters to some and not others) Superior Tesselation performance.
The Unigine 2.0 bench is an EXTREME example and no games right now utilize anywhere near that level of Tesselation, but what about over say the next two years? And even if PhysX melts away and all devs turn to OpenCL type physics, Nvidia's CUDA architecture takes full advantage of OpenCL as it is very similar to CUDA extensions.

There is a long list. Also, if you are going 470SLI, you then have the option of 3DSurround if you have a taste for that. The 5970 has eyefinity as well, but not 3D. I believe that is a matter of taste, but you have the option to do so if so inclined.

Don't take this incorrectly. Both solutions offer incredible gaming performance no matter how you look at it. But IMHO, one solution offers much more than the other.

 

[Lonyo]

Do HD5850 Crossfire.
Cheaper than an HD5970, performs the same, cheaper than SLI GTX470 although it performs a little worse.
Plus 3 monitor support.
Unless you don't want to save $100.

 

[Skurge]

OP, why don't you just get 5870 CrossFire?

get the best of both worlds. Well you don't Physx though.

 

[Attic]

ROFL, this is America, not Soviet Russia. Tell me what statute would potentially make it illegal to buy and resell video cards. You need to do some self-study of basic economic principles. Having less than 1% of the total 480s auctioned off doesn't artificially create high prices. In fact, the auctions are where the cards adjust to their true price based on supply and demand. The MSRP is the "artificial" price since it didn't keep supply and demand in equilibrium, otherwise the cards wouldn't be sold out. Accepting your logic also requires favoring moronic policies like rent control, which has turned NYC into a disaster. I suppose in your perfect world the cards would be sold out *everywhere* with no option for people who want to pay a bit more to get them before others who don't value them as highly.

I noted specifically in my post I was referring to a large scale circumstance and then you augment your argument against my point claiming less than 1% of 480's are on ebay. Well.... good job, you've created something fictional to argue against and made it appear I'm standing behind your fictional assertion. Of course if less than 1% are on ebay it's not a big deal.

 

[Seero]

470SLI vs 5870CF from Hexus

 

[Keysplayr]

470SLI vs 5870CF from Hexus

Very nice.