Gtx 580 vs?

[TheMeanestGuest]

Ignore everyone else and listen to me. Unless you plan on getting a new power supply (which you have expressed reluctance to do) I would not recommend either SLI or Crossfire.

The only exception I would make is 6850 Crossfire, as they each only take 1 6 pin connector. If you do not want to Crossfire 6850s get either a GTX 570 or an HD 6970 and overclock. I wouldn't waste money on a 580 over a 570 or 6970.

If you've changed your mind about the PSU, ignore me.

 

[rgallant]

-ONE TIME GPU BUY\GIFT

-get the two 6950's
-only use one until you get your PSU sorted out. da

-edit :if you play a lot of high end games no two cards you can buy today is over kill ,maybe for last years games - what about next years games.
- some people say with every card release it's over kill\waste of money- but yet the same people upgrade their cards the following year. I don't get it.

 

[Smartazz]

I've used both the Corsair TX and HX and they're both rock solid and very quiet too, I definitely recommend either. A lot of people seem to agree that dual HD6950s is the way to go, especially if it's a one time deal. Just don't overclock anything until you get a new power supply.

 

[extra]

Single card? GTX570 and OC imho. ^_^ .. Dual card... well... there's some sweet options. I'd probably do CF 6950 2gb and save up for sweet huge rez eyefinity setup.

At this point the Nvidia cards are definately solid throughout the lineup. The AMD cards are as well (but there isn't the 6990 yet).

Imho: Nvidia gives you physX and 3d vision. Will you use either of those? How about CUDA?

AMD gives you eyefinity, better price (in some categories), and really great performance at ultra high resolutions. Plus 2gb of ram in the 69xx series. You're gaming at 1080p so that doesn't really apply to you yet.

And don't listen to the FUD about SLI and Crossfire. They both work fine. Crossfire scaling is really uber right now, seems to be better than SLI, but that could change at any time back to the other direction with drivers. They are both mature and usable for most popular games. For example, if you want to go Nvidia, grab a 570, then after Christmas pick up another one if desired==you won't need to upgrade for a long friggin time.

 

[3DVagabond]

Ignore everyone else and listen to me. Unless you plan on getting a new power supply (which you have expressed reluctance to do) I would not recommend either SLI or Crossfire.

The only exception I would make is 6850 Crossfire, as they each only take 1 6 pin connector. If you do not want to Crossfire 6850s get either a GTX 570 or an HD 6970 and overclock. I wouldn't waste money on a 580 over a 570 or 6970.

If you've changed your mind about the PSU, ignore me.

I agree 99%

Everything here except the O/C recommendation instead of moving up to the next card. O/C'ing never seems to add enough performance to make a noticeable difference while gaming. Plus it generally makes power usage go through the roof.

101% agree on not running crossfire/SLI on anything more than the 6850 w/600W PSU. While you could maybe get away with it, but you shouldn't cut it too close with the PSU.

 

[Will Robinson]

If its someone else's money(parents) then clearly Dual 6950 Graphics cards would be the deluxe setup.
With NVDA cards crippled by not enough video memory it makes good sense to plan for the future and your parents will probably agree with such a smart plan.

 

[OCGuy]

I would take the 580 and run.....

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Ignore everyone else and listen to me. Unless you plan on getting a new power supply (which you have expressed reluctance to do) I would not recommend either SLI or Crossfire.

The only exception I would make is 6850 Crossfire, as they each only take 1 6 pin connector. If you do not want to Crossfire 6850s get either a GTX 570 or an HD 6970 and overclock. I wouldn't waste money on a 580 over a 570 or 6970.

If you've changed your mind about the PSU, ignore me.

Or he could get dual 6950s and cut off 20% of the TDP by using Powertune... until he gets a new power supply.

 

[happy medium]

Ignore everyone else and listen to me. Unless you plan on getting a new power supply (which you have expressed reluctance to do) I would not recommend either SLI or Crossfire.

The only exception I would make is 6850 Crossfire, as they each only take 1 6 pin connector. If you do not want to Crossfire 6850s get either a GTX 570 or an HD 6970 and overclock. I wouldn't waste money on a 580 over a 570 or 6970.

If you've changed your mind about the PSU, ignore me.

I said grab a new power supply and a 6970 and I was told I was wrong.
Taking a chance like that with 1200$ in hardware is a big chance.
Some will let a member take the chance because its not there money just to be right.
Thats a shame

 

[Smartazz]

I said grab a new power supply and a 6970 and I was told I was wrong.
Taking a chance like that with 1200$ in hardware is a big chance.
Some will let a member take the chance because its not there money just to be right.
Thats a shame

I don't understand what the problem is with his power supply. Sure it isn't the best in the world, but assuming 300W for the GPUs and 100W for the CPU, power consumption shouldn't top 400W including other devices. I personally would feel comfortable doing this on a 600W OCZ power supply, especially since it's new. If he really wants to make sure he isn't pushing it, then the OP should set the Powertune down to 150W or so just to be safe, then raise it once he gets a better power supply.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Some will let a member take the chance because its not there money just to be right.
Thats a shame

If you're going to do a call out don't be passive aggressive. Also it's not the OP's money either; it's his parents' money

There is no chance with the 6950s. They are efficient video cards and that power supply is good enough, especially with a pretty efficient processor.

http://techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6950/27.html
Single 6950: 130W

Dual 6950s: 260W

http://www.lostcircuits.com/mambo//...ask=view&id=79&Itemid=42&limit=1&limitstart=6
Core i7 870: 84W

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/64
System (Anandtech minus Lost Circuit): 138W - 84W = 54W

Worst case scenario total: 398W, ~33A for +12V.

Review of the 600W ModXStream Pro:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/OCZ-ModXStream-Pro-600-W-Power-Supply-Review/936/7

398W is well within my recommended operating procedure for a power supply. In my opinion, the components of your system should not exceed 80% of the power supplies capacity under a typical full load situation. 398W of the OCZ's 504W for the +12V rails alone meets this criteria, so I deem it to be safe.

As long as he doesn't overclock he will be alright. For extra measure he can utilize AMD's Powertune to further lower power consumption of the 6950s. In fact with -20% on Xfire 6950s their power consumption would be about equal to a 6970 and less than an overclocked 6970***.

Now if we were talking about dual 570s, 470s, 6970s, or any other card, then I would argue against it with this power supply, even though it could probably handle it. But we're talking about the 6950.

YOU were also the one who recommended two GTX 460s earlier in this thread, too, yet the 6950 uses about the same power as a GTX 460...: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4061/amds-radeon-hd-6970-radeon-hd-6950/24

And then you also suggest overclocking both his processor and the 6970. An overclocked i7 870 and an overclocked HD 6970 is going to use more power than a stock i7 870 with dual 6950s Powertuned to -10% to -20%

 

[happy medium]

Worst case scenario total: 398W, ~33A for +12V.

So 400 watts load on a 500 watt line is good for a 2 year old mediocre power supply.
I would not take the chance with a very exspensive system over a long period of time.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

So 400 watts load on a 500 watt line is good for a 2 year old mediocre power supply.
I would not take the chance with a very exspensive system over a long period of time.

Wow you would spin anything to make sure you are right and that he should do exactly what you say. It's like you didn't even READ what I WROTE, because I wrote EVERYTHING* I needed to counter this argument but you just IGNORED the data. Bravo.

*So I wasn't explicit about everything. You would have to infer some things from all of the data I presented, yet you, happy, seem to have inferred NOTHING. 400W is the worst case scenario. He will not see 400W under typical gaming situations, because games don't fully load the processor. Also due to scaling issues his GPUs won't be fully loaded either. So his system isn't going to draw 400W when he's gaming. And his system most definitely won't draw anywhere near 400W if he uses Powertune.

Also the the ModXStream is better than mediocre. It's laughable that you call it mediocre. In fact it's just plain absurd. It's a good, solid power supply. Great? Excellent? No, but definitely good. The fact you call it mediocre just means you either didn't read that review, you didn't understand it, or you're just spreading FUD to make yourself look RIGHT (funny, as that's what you're accusing others of doing).

What's also laughable is that you bring age into the equation. There are a lot of 2+ year old power supplies that are very, very good. Corsair HX series comes to mind.

Just face it happy, you are WRONG! With Powertune he can have his cake and eat it too. He can the fastest cards for his (parents') money and still be in the safe limits of his power supply. And when he upgrades his power supply he can gain extra performance, by upping Powertune back to normal or by overclocking, and still be within the safe limits of whatever power supply he gets.

 

[happy medium]

Wow you would spin anything to make sure you are right and that he should do exactly what you say. It's like you didn't even READ what I WROTE, because I wrote EVERYTHING* I needed to counter this argument but you just IGNORED the data. Bravo.

*So I wasn't explicit about everything. You would have to infer some things from all of the data I presented, yet you, happy, seem to have inferred NOTHING. 400W is the worst case scenario. He will not see 400W under typical gaming situations, because games don't fully load the processor. Also due to scaling issues his GPUs won't be fully loaded either. So his system isn't going to draw 400W when he's gaming. And his system most definitely won't draw anywhere near 400W if he uses Powertune.

Also the the ModXStream is better than mediocre. It's laughable that you call it mediocre. In fact it's just plain absurd. It's a good, solid power supply. Great? Excellent? No, but definitely good. The fact you call it mediocre just means you either didn't read that review, you didn't understand it, or you're just spreading FUD to make yourself look RIGHT (funny, as that's what you're accusing others of doing).

What's also laughable is that you bring age into the equation. There are a lot of 2+ year old power supplies that are very, very good. Corsair HX series comes to mind.

Just face it happy, you are WRONG! With Powertune he can have his cake and eat it too. He can the fastest cards for his (parents') money and still be in the safe limits of his power supply. And when he upgrades his power supply he can gain extra performance, by upping Powertune back to normal or by overclocking, and still be within the safe limits of whatever power supply he gets.

Face it man, if he lowers his cards both 20% with powertune (loss of performance) like you said, keeps his cpu stock, he will come close to what a new power supply , a overclocked cpu ,and a overclocked 6970 will do especially @1900x1080. Then he can upgrade to another 6970 when he buys his 30 inch monitor like he said he was, and be better off.

A system with a much higher overclocked cpu and a overclocked 6970 at only 1900x1080 will be dam close to a stock clocked cpu, and 2 underclocked 6950's on average.

I much rather have a system with the cpu at 3.9 rather then 2.9 @ 1900x1080 with a highend card, then a system with 2 underclocked cards, a psu thats at its limi,t and a stock cpu.
I would also bet on higher minimums also, because of the extra cpu overclock.

another plus is no worries about his system frying.

If he had his 30 inch monitor now I'd might agree with you,but in this case,you are wrong.

 

[amenx]

I would go for the single card solution over CF or SLI. Less issues. Have seen many 5870CF and 5970 owners go for the 580 and are quite pleased with their move.

 

[Labze]

I would go for the single card solution over CF or SLI. Less issues. Have seen many 5870CF and 5970 owners go for the 580 and are quite pleased with their move.

What are these issues your talking about?

 

[amenx]

What are these issues your talking about?

Stutter, scaling issues, inconsistent frame rates, game compatibility. Thought it was a well know fact that multi-GPU setups have more issues than single cards. Sure they're faster when working right, but for some the inconsistent performance is not worth the trouble or cost. Of course for others, usually (those with lesser issues) or dont mind the constant tweaking to get the best out of their cards, will stick to their Xfires or SLI.

 

[Hard Ball]

Stutter, scaling issues, inconsistent frame rates, game compatibility. Thought it was a well know fact that multi-GPU setups have more issues than single cards. Sure they're faster when working right, but for some the inconsistent performance is not worth the trouble or cost. Of course for others, usually (those with lesser issues) or dont mind the constant tweaking to get the best out of their cards, will stick to their Xfires or SLI.

Most of these issues you mention are historical in nature by these days; things have improved a lot over time. I have a recently put together a CF 5850 system that exhibits very little of the issues that I saw with the earlier CF systems (such as in the X1900 days). The same can be said of SLI solutions (the earliest one where I built one on NF4 SLI for someone, and then 7900GT, and more recently GTX275 things improved considerably).

The only remaining problem is sometimes there are large frame rate delta between min and max during the course of a game. However these are usually short durations during a few scenes with high particle counts and the like. The rest are no longer legitimate issues.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Face it man, if he lowers his cards both 20% with powertune (loss of performance) like you said, keeps his cpu stock, he will come close to what a new power supply , a overclocked cpu ,and a overclocked 6970 will do especially @1900x1080. Then he can upgrade to another 6970 when he buys his 30 inch monitor like he said he was, and be better off.

HOLY CRAP. Happy... this post is just pathetic and ignores everything we've already discussed. How can you still stand by. Just give it up, man, give it up.

The issue with keeping things at stock now is not about performance. Duh. It's about keeping power under control until he gets a new power supply. This is what the OP has said that makes everything you're suggesting just idiotic:

This is my "christmast gift", meaning with some agreeing with my parents, if i only get a single 6950 card that will be it, probrably wont see the money to upgrade again in near future either.

PSU will be a easy upgrade for me next year, so if my current can last two months with the cards ill be getting a 850 or something in january-february.

Like many peoples says, the premium of the 6970 doesnt seem to be justified

Notice the bolded parts; I shouldn't have to explain why they are important. If you can't figure it out on your own, then I am done with you. You are just WRONG. You completely ignore these things and YOU AREN'T THINKING ABOUT HIS SITUATION AT ALL. Instead you are thinking about what YOU would do as him.

A system with a much higher overclocked cpu and a overclocked 6970 at only 1900x1080 will be dam close to a stock clocked cpu, and 2 underclocked 6950's on average.

I much rather have a system with the cpu at 3.9 rather then 2.9 @ 1900x1080 with a highend card, then a system with 2 underclocked cards, a psu thats at its limi,t and a stock cpu.
I would also bet on higher minimums also, because of the extra cpu overclock.

As I already stated performance isn't entirely the issue. He has the means to get a potentially faster setup now, and the potential will unlock once he upgrades the power supply, which he said he would do. HOWEVER HE SAID HE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO UPGRADE TO ANOTHER VIDEO CARD. So the choice is very obvious at this point in time. Two 6950s >>>>>> A single 6970, overclocked or not.

The processor argument is ridiculously overblown, and only matters in a handful of specific games. Regardless, he can overclock whatever he wants when he gets a new power supply. Oh yeah, you are forgetting the i7 HAS A TURBO MODE. I mean, how could you forget that? It will be running faster than 2.9 GHz; it will turbo up to 3.6 GHz. For dual threaded games - typically the games that need faster processor - it will turbo up to 3.46 GHz. For triple and quad threaded games, it will turbo up to 3.2 GHz.

You also have no data supporting your claim, either, about how an overclocked-single-gpu vs. stock-multi-gpu. Considering the OP is worried about longevity in terms of performance. Considering he can easily upgrade the power supply soon. Considering his current power supply is good and much better than you make it out to be; it can handle dual 6950s. Considering he could lower the TDP if he wanted, to ensure his current PSU makes it another two months. Considering he won't be able to "add" another 6970 later, or if he does it will be under his own expense rather than a gift. Considering he can get two 6950s now as a gift. Considering dual 6950s are much, much, much, faster than even an overclocked 6970. Considering... everything. Why aren't you considering all of this? Instead, like I mentioned, you are NOT THINKING ABOUT HIS SITUATION. You are entirely thinking about what YOU would do, not what he should do.

another plus is no worries about his system frying.

You have to be joking, right? An overclocked Core i7 and overclocked HD 6970 is going to use more power. It would put similar or possibly more strain on his power supply and his system. What's just hilarious is that you earlier said this:

"a psu thats at its limi,t"

What a joke. What a big ****ing joke. Statements like these suggest you don't really have a clue about the things you're saying; it's like you're completely ignoring the data put right in front of your face. I already provided hard evidence that even at worst case scenario stock settings his power supply has more than enough power.

 

[Labze]

Thanks for the responses

Well, my mind have been set so allready pulled the trigger on 2x 6950, hopefully it wont let me down

 

[happy medium]

HOLY CRAP. Happy... this post is just pathetic and ignores everything we've already discussed. How can you still stand by. Just give it up, man, give it up.

The issue with keeping things at stock now is not about performance. Duh. It's about keeping power under control until he gets a new power supply. This is what the OP has said that makes everything you're suggesting just idiotic:



Notice the bolded parts; I shouldn't have to explain why they are important. If you can't figure it out on your own, then I am done with you. You are just WRONG. You completely ignore these things and YOU AREN'T THINKING ABOUT HIS SITUATION AT ALL. Instead you are thinking about what YOU would do as him.



As I already stated performance isn't entirely the issue. He has the means to get a potentially faster setup now, and the potential will unlock once he upgrades the power supply, which he said he would do. HOWEVER HE SAID HE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO UPGRADE TO ANOTHER VIDEO CARD. So the choice is very obvious at this point in time. Two 6950s >>>>>> A single 6970, overclocked or not.

The processor argument is ridiculously overblown, and only matters in a handful of specific games. Regardless, he can overclock whatever he wants when he gets a new power supply. Oh yeah, you are forgetting the i7 HAS A TURBO MODE. I mean, how could you forget that? It will be running faster than 2.9 GHz; it will turbo up to 3.6 GHz. For dual threaded games - typically the games that need faster processor - it will turbo up to 3.46 GHz. For triple and quad threaded games, it will turbo up to 3.2 GHz.

You also have no data supporting your claim, either, about how an overclocked-single-gpu vs. stock-multi-gpu. Considering the OP is worried about longevity in terms of performance. Considering he can easily upgrade the power supply soon. Considering his current power supply is good and much better than you make it out to be; it can handle dual 6950s. Considering he could lower the TDP if he wanted, to ensure his current PSU makes it another two months. Considering he won't be able to "add" another 6970 later, or if he does it will be under his own expense rather than a gift. Considering he can get two 6950s now as a gift. Considering dual 6950s are much, much, much, faster than even an overclocked 6970. Considering... everything. Why aren't you considering all of this? Instead, like I mentioned, you are NOT THINKING ABOUT HIS SITUATION. You are entirely thinking about what YOU would do, not what he should do.



You have to be joking, right? An overclocked Core i7 and overclocked HD 6970 is going to use more power. It would put similar or possibly more strain on his power supply and his system. What's just hilarious is that you earlier said this:

"a psu thats at its limi,t"

What a joke. What a big ****ing joke. Statements like these suggest you don't really have a clue about the things you're saying; it's like you're completely ignoring the data put right in front of your face. I already provided hard evidence that even at worst case scenario stock settings his power supply has more than enough power.

Wait so the guy says he can't upgrade his card later but he might move up to a 2500x1600 monitor?
I think we both just wasted our time and effort.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The problem with crossfire, like any multi-gpu setup is that a game might not support it and the possibility for micro stutter. Personally, I'd get the crossfired 6950s over the 580 without question. Your powersupply will probably be fine seeing as the 6950 tends to draw around 140 watts while gaming.

I wouldn't. I don't like multi GPU setups for a couple reasons reasons.

1) the power consumption is more
2) more heat output
3) more noise
4) scaling in games is not great sometimes (dependent on game and drivers)
5) micro stutter is super duper annoying when it happens

I don't think the GTX 580 is worth $500 myself, but I'd get one because it's a single GPU card and offers CUDA. Many people don't use CUDA, but when it is used it's very nice to have. If you do any video transcoding then CUDA will be a nice thing to have available, not many apps use AMD's GPU acceleration. If not, then it doesn't matter if you go AMD or Nvidia. It's just my opinion that a single GPU solution is always better off.

Most of the issues have been fixed with most games. They are always being addressed with future drivers as well. Really, it's up to you. Crossfire and SLI are good ways to go if you buy a mid range card because they can outperform one high end card easily.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Wait so the guy says he can't upgrade his card later but he might move up to a 2500x1600 monitor?
I think we both just wasted our time and effort.

No you "wasted" my time. The monitor argument... is meaningless in this case. 2560x1600 vs 1080p doesn't matter; video card performance rankings don't change. He never said he was going to get a new monitor; in fact he said it is not in his plans. He merely suggested at some point he might have the urge to upgrade it. Which is understandable. The monitor is the mainstay of a PC and can be used for several different builds. If that happens Crossfire 6950s is still the best option and you are... "wrong" on this account too. He has made it pretty clear that this GPU upgrade is going to last him as long as possible, so he might as well get the best performance under his budget. That would be dual 6950s. If he was going to get a single card, he might as well go all out for the GTX 580.

 

[Triggaaar]

No you "wasted" my time.

Lads, lads, we've all had a drink, let's not ruin the evening.

Well, my mind have been set so allready pulled the trigger on 2x 6950, hopefully it wont let me down

Excellent chioce of cards, they should give you some great performance.

I didn't make it through the whole thread, but as you'll know, your PSU is an issue. Can you get hold of any equipment to test the load on your system as you start to put it through its paces (even a wall monitor to test total system use)? If your power supply were to fail you could damage things like your CPU etc, so you want to tread carefully.