GTX 780 - Should I SLI?

[Termie]

OP - while there is a very vocal critic of SLI in this thread that has never used it (and instead upgraded his 780 to a 980), there are a lot of others here who would suggest that 780 SLI is a much better upgrade option - definitely more cost-effective.

Also, why consider the red herrings of UE4/Id? UE4 isn't even used in any mainstream games yet. It's basically a tech demo. SLI will surely be added when it's worth Nvidia's time. And idTech games? That's all of two games right now.

That being said, I need to caution you about going SLI for a 1080p/120Hz monitor. Having tested 780 Ti SLI extensively, I can tell you that most games don't hit anywhere near 80% scaling (which is the ideal for SLI) when running at 1080p. The graphics load just isn't high enough even maxed out, and you start to hit the CPU too hard to let it catch up. And this is with a 4770K@4.5.

Now it's when you start to scale up resolutions, rather than refresh rates, where SLI comes into its own. Current games just aren't strenuous enough at 1080p for SLI to work exactly how you'd want it to for a high refresh rate monitor.

 

[toyota]

OP - while there is a very vocal critic of SLI in this thread that has never used it (and instead upgraded his 780 to a 980), there are a lot of others here who would suggest that 780 SLI is a much better upgrade option - definitely more cost-effective.

Also, why consider the red herrings of UE4/Id? UE4 isn't even used in any mainstream games yet. It's basically a tech demo. SLI will surely be added when it's worth Nvidia's time. And idTech games? That's all of two games right now.

That being said, I need to caution you about going SLI for a 1080p/120Hz monitor. Having tested 780 Ti SLI extensively, I can tell you that most games don't hit anywhere near 80% scaling (which is the ideal for SLI) when running at 1080p. The graphics load just isn't high enough even maxed out, and you start to hit the CPU too hard to let it catch up. And this is with a 4770K@4.5.

Now it's when you start to scale up resolutions, rather than refresh rates, where SLI comes into its own. Current games just aren't strenuous enough at 1080p for SLI to work exactly how you'd want it to for a high refresh rate monitor.

having never used SLI has NOTHING to do with the FACT that it will have more problems than single card and some games will not even work with it all.

I am looking at BOTH sides here as I have already said 780 SLI will certainly be the faster overall setup. the OP seemed oblivious to any SLI shortcomings and those needed to be mentioned.

 

[RussianSensation]

Option #2, sell 780 instead of buying a used 780 and get dual 970s because:

1. Latest games seem to be more optimized for Maxwell, and shockingly even 970 > 780Ti in them.

2. 4GB of VRAM and MFAA.

3. If you sell 780 for $300 yourself, it's not going to be that much more to buy dual 970s with game bundles. You can sell the game coupons for both cards and that way your upgrade cost won't be much more than getting a 2nd 780.

4. 970's @ 1.5Ghz should be 10-15% faster than a 1.2Ghz overclocked 780. So it's also a performance upgrade.

Also, you can go dual MSI Gaming 970s or Gigabyte G1 Windforce as they have much nicer coolers than your 780. You'll get a quieter system to boot and brand new 3-year-warranty on both of those cards. I think the best option is to dump that 3GB 780 now.

 

[toyota]

Option #2, sell 780, get dual 970s because:

1. Latest games seem to be more optimized for Maxwell, and shockingly even 970 > 780Ti in them.

2. 4GB of VRAM and MFAA.

3. If you sell 780 for $300 yourself, it's not going to be that much more to buy dual 970s with game bundles. You can sell the game coupons for both cards and that way your upgrade cost won't be much more than getting a 2nd 780.

Also, you can go dual MSI Gaming 970s or Gigabyte G1 Windforce as they have much nicer coolers than your 780's. You'll get a quieter system to boot and brand new 3-year-warranty on both of those cards. I think the best option is to dump that 3GB 780 now.

yeah that is probably the best "overall" option. then if not happy with SLI grab the next big boy single card down the road and sale the 970 cards.

 

[KaRLiToS]

Considering the only idTech5 game out worth a damn is Wolfenstein New Order (which runs nicely even on my GTX770) I wouldn't worry too much about that. Doesn't seem to be anything particularly interesting in the pipeline for UE4 games so far either and even then your 780 should run them at least decently.

You won't be getting 120 fps anyway in the latest games without dropping graphics settings even with SLI unless you run only at 1080p.

And I was able to finish Wolfenstein: The new order with a single card (R9 290x) at a freakin huge resolution of 8040x1440 ( Triple 1440p monitor) without an issue. The other cards I have serve in ALL the other games I play.

I agree with you Toyota that some people "may" encounter issues with SLI but it is not everyone and SLI with single monitor is easy as hell. There is always a workaround in case of issues. GTX 980 is not worth it at the moment especially if he already has a very good GTX 780.

 

[quest4glory]

Don't sell a 780 to get a 980, that's ludicrous. Staying single GPU is my preferred method too, but if you're going to go that route wait until Big Maxwell. Shifting GPUs for 15% is a waste of time and money

Agree 100%. I'm running EVGA GTX 780 Classified in SLI and I can't think of a single problem I've had...other than having to turn it back on after updating the GeForce drivers. Overclocks like a mother, as well.

When the 980's and 970's first released, you couldn't get them anywhere if you missed the first weekend window. They were gone by late Sunday evening on Amazon. Anyway, I was building a new rig at the time, my first "real" PC for both business and pleasure since 2008. Long story, but I'm coming back to Windows after a few years on MacBook Air and MacBook Pro Retina.

I price matched the last 780 Classy Fry's had on the shelf after seriously considering what would have been a huge mistake of a 760 4GB Windforce card from Gigabyte. Reason why it would have been a mistake is I had a Dell 27" 1440p monitor shipping from Amazon. I tested this and if you step up from 1080p to 1440p, you will notice a big difference in performance, dropping that is, with a single 780 GTX 3GB, even overclocked. I bought the second Classy on eBay for $290 USD and it made the experience almost seamless.

I "overclocked" the monitor to 85 Hz and am very satisified. Some games even support vSync at 85 Hz, not that I would do that in most cases, but it's a nice bump up from 60, and it's noticeable. I wouldn't be able to do that with a single 780 and like I said, the 980's were hard to find and are still very expensive.

In most cases, two 780 GTX's > one 980, and also > one 970. 2x 970's would be great for the price to performance ratio, but I am not going to replace the 780's at this point. What would be the point for so little performance increase? An extra 1GB of VRAM? Maybe in a year or two.

So after all of that I now have an almost shiny new Core i7 4790K running OC'd at 4.7 GHz on a Gigabyte Z97X-UD3H-BK, 16 GB of Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR3 RAM 1600 MHz overclocked to 2166 MHz, a 256 GB Plextor PCIe M.2 boot drive, an 850W 80+ Gold PSU and a whole bunch of odds and ends I spent way too much money on. Selling the MacBook Pro Retina helped stock my gaming library, I must say.

I used to have a single 8800 GT and it was ok; prior to that I had 7800 GTX 256 MB in SLI (over a grand in GPU's circa late 2005!), 6800 GT SLI and way back when: 3DFX Voodoo2 SLI.

That's back when SLI meant "Scan-Line Interleave" and you had to have a VGA cable bridging the 2D graphics card with the 3D. Those were some interesting times, but it comes down to this, if you want a super smooth problem free experience, consider console gaming.

But if you want an ultra high resolution moving target gaming beast and don't mind getting your hands dirty every now and then, PC gaming can't be beat. SLI is just another tool in the tool belt. Not the be all end all, and not to be discounted for what it is. With the right GPU's, enabling high resolution game play for 2.5K and 4K and beyond.

TL;DR:780 SLI is just fine.

 

[BFG10K]

How can a GTX 980, that is only faster by 10% - 15% than a single GTX 780, be faster than GTX 780 Sli?

There's a lot more to it then that. A single card is far more robust and will run faster if the scaling doesn't work. Not to mention that a second card is old tech and doesn't have the benefits of the Maxwell architecture.

One just needs to browse any recent reviews to see even the usual cherry-picked games having multi-GPU issues with both vendors. If reviewers can spot issues, somebody gaming for hours across a broad range of different games will almost certainly have issues too.

Also with SLI settings VRAM can make a difference, and the 980 comes out ahead over 3GB cards.

And even if the scaling is perfect, the input lag will always be there unless they stop using AFR.

 

[Ryanrenesis]

Update on this:

Option 1: Acquire another GTX 780 for $300

Option 2: Sell GTX 780 for $300, spend $520 on ($220 net) R9 290 CrossFire.

I save $80 with Option 2. Is it worth it?

 

[quest4glory]

Update on this:

Option 1: Acquire another GTX 780 for $300

Option 2: Sell GTX 780 for $300, spend $520 on ($220 net) R9 290 CrossFire.

I save $80 with Option 2. Is it worth it?

It might be worth it if you plan to game at higher resolutions or would like to dabble in 4K. There are always going to be tradeoffs. For instance the Nvidia "solution" has hardware encoded H.264 and you can use that to implement Steam streaming in home to another PC (even a Mac) or Nvidia Shield tablet. That's just one thing.

AMD has Eyefinity which is reportedly much better than "Surround" by Nvidia.

Saving $80 on the R9 290 Crossfire is not bad compared to the 780, especially if you plan to overclock, if you don't care about the special features each one has to offer and just game on a single monitor. The performance should be better in some cases, especially higher resolutions.

Drawback to the R9 290's could be noise. The GTX 780's run fairly quiet. I have two of them in a Corsair Carbide 330R and you can barely hear until you play a very demanding game with all of the bells and whistles turned on. Even then, the fans on my Kraken X61 make more noise and drown them out. My case is probably not yours, so you have to take it all into account and figure out what you value most.

Me - I value low to no noise during the day when I'm working and at night when the kids are in bed I can throw on some headphones and play some games and use the rad exhaust as a foot warmer.

 

[quest4glory]

Update on this:

Option 1: Acquire another GTX 780 for $300

Option 2: Sell GTX 780 for $300, spend $520 on ($220 net) R9 290 CrossFire.

I save $80 with Option 2. Is it worth it?

You might have to look into a PSU with more wattage as well. Even 780 SLI has an 850W recommendation. Crossfire should be a bit more. If you consider a new PSU into the equation, dual 970's might seem a bit more appealing at that point.

 

[Headfoot]

I vote wait for big maxwell. If you really don't want to wait, I vote 780 sli. 290 CF would probably require you to up your power supply, where I think you could squeak by on your high quality 750 with 780 more safely. You probably could do 290 CF on it but I personally wouldn't push my PSU that much, even if it is a quality one.

If you still can't make a decision, just google it. That's what we all do...

 

[Ryanrenesis]

Second Update: I found 2x Sapphire or XFX R9 290x Reference from a local computer store wanting to sell a whole bulk of them. Two would cost $600.

There's also an owner who is willing to sell 2x R9 290 w/ Tri-X coolers for $550.

Which is the better deal?
1) Two R9 290X w/ Reference Coolers for $600
or
2) Two R9 290 w/ Tri-X Coolers for $550

I'm leaning towards the flag-ship 290X as they are more of an improvement vs. my 780 than a 290.

 

[wand3r3r]

#2 100% since the reference cards are loud and hot (I have reference 290x's and don't recommend them, definitely go aftermarket like tri-x to avoid throttling).

If you are willing to go AMD. Just understand that both SLI AND CrossfireX do have issues to some extent. Neither will give you a perfect experience in everything. The games I care about tend to work fine but you can read up about specific games if you care about something in particular. AMD is very competitive nowadays so either are viable options.

 

[Ryanrenesis]

#2 100% since the reference cards are loud and hot (I have reference 290x's and don't recommend them, definitely go aftermarket like tri-x to avoid throttling).

If you are willing to go AMD. Just understand that both SLI AND CrossfireX do have issues to some extent. Neither will give you a perfect experience in everything. The games I care about tend to work fine but you can read up about specific games if you care about something in particular. AMD is very competitive nowadays so either are viable options.

Does your reference 290x thermal throttle even at stock clocks?

But it is 290X CF vs 290 CF... I'm surprised you recommend #2. I would think the flagship 290X would be much better. It's frustrating that most reviews on the 290X uses crazy resolutions instead of 1920x1080p @ 120Hz that I run at.

 

[RussianSensation]

Does your reference 290x thermal throttle even at stock clocks?

But it is 290X CF vs 290 CF... I'm surprised you recommend #2. I would think the flagship 290X would be much better. It's frustrating that most reviews on the 290X uses crazy resolutions instead of 1920x1080p @ 120Hz that I run at.

Yes, even reference 980 in SLI thermal throttle.

"We found that with the default settings on GeForce GTX 980 SLI the lowest clock rate it hit while in-game was 1126MHz. That clock speed is actually below the boost clock of 1216MHz for GTX 980. This is the first time we've seen the real-time in-game clock speed clock throttle below the boost clock in SLI in games. It seems GTX 980 SLI is clock throttling in SLI on reference video cards. This is something we did NOT expect, but it is happening with reference cards. This begs the question which we will have to answer another day, "Will this happen with custom cooled video cards?"

We noticed that when the GPUs would hit 80c the thermal throttling in SLI would occur and drop the clock speed from the boost clock. We know that it is strictly temperature that is causing this clock throttling in SLI because we also tried a test by just raising the fans to 100% fan speed. When we did this the in-game clock frequency jumped to 1266MHz consistently without dropping."
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014...980_sli_overclocked_gpu_review/2#.VG5CCPmUfsc

The few times you should buy reference NV cards is if you have a miniITX case/case with horrible airflow (Antec 182 series, or a case with 0-1 fans), if you have almost no space between 1st and 2nd PCIe slots like in a MicroATX ROG board or if you are going 3-4 cards in SLI/CF or if you are considering water blocks. Otherwise, after-market open air coolers >>>> reference blowers for both brands for CF/SLI. The ONLY time you should ever buy any reference AMD card is you are going to be water-cooling.

Since you are gaming at 1920x1080, just get 970 SLI. Your first step is to sell that 780. What if you can't get a good price for it? Well that will determine your next steps. The reason 290 is generally a better value is because max overclocked 290X is barely 5-7% faster.

 

[KaRLiToS]

If the reference cards have a vapor chamber it is fine. But Maxwell doesn't.

 

[wand3r3r]

Does your reference 290x thermal throttle even at stock clocks?

But it is 290X CF vs 290 CF... I'm surprised you recommend #2. I would think the flagship 290X would be much better. It's frustrating that most reviews on the 290X uses crazy resolutions instead of 1920x1080p @ 120Hz that I run at.

Yes, the warmer card requires raising the fan and it's loud enough as it is on uber mode. Single card is probably fine at stock. The difference between 290/x isn't that great.

Anyways, I agree with RS and would suggest 970 SLI since based on your short posting history I don't think you'd be satisfied with crossfire since you'd likely assume sli is better. You still seem to be able to get a lot from the 780 but I guess it's resale will start dropping.

 

[Ryanrenesis]

After some calculations, I can't go the GTX 970 SLI route as it's over my budget, especially after 13% tax.

I think I'll be taking the R9 290 Tri-X's based on you guys' second recommendation.

 

[quest4glory]

Does your reference 290x thermal throttle even at stock clocks?

But it is 290X CF vs 290 CF... I'm surprised you recommend #2. I would think the flagship 290X would be much better. It's frustrating that most reviews on the 290X uses crazy resolutions instead of 1920x1080p @ 120Hz that I run at.

It's not crazy at all. The 290 / 290X are geared more towards 4K resolution than they are 1080p. That's why you see lower performance at 1080p on those cards than you do with the Nvidia competitors at their *previous* price points.

 

[Larnz]

I have been crossfire then SLI for a while now (6950s then 680s) and I would drop SLI in a heartbeat if a single card could give me a decent fps raise and 1440p gaming experience.

I have never had any "Issues" with either Xfire or SLI technically. However the biggest frustration is the fact that almost every single game that releases will only use 1 card or require some tweaking with inspector or the like faking other game profiles to make SLI work upon said games release. It's annoying to not have a official Xfire/SLI profile come out until you are done with the game, kinda makes the 2nd card pointless.

Dragon Age is the first AAA game in AGES that seemed to work properly with SLI right out of the gate which was an awesome surprise. As someone who looks forward to a lot of games and wants to play them day 1 missing SLI profiles can be super annoying. If you take a few weeks after release of games to get around to playing them then it's not such a big deal.

I am looking forward to the 980 successor to hopefully give me a reason to jump from SLI 680's to a single GPU to game at 1440p maxed.

 

[KaRLiToS]

Just get a second GTX 780 and be done with it.