Guess the FED doesn't like REAL money

[NoStateofMind]

Washington Post.com's story "In Ron Paul Coins, Federal Agents Don't Trust" has confirmed a couple things.

The FED and government fear a competing currency that actually will hold its value. The dollar seems to get weaker every day. NORFED then becomes a threat to the FED and government, as the dollar lost value more and more people would turn to gold & silver backed coins & dollars as standard currency. They fear it tremendously. These coins would serve not only hold the value of currency, but also as advertisement. The FED and government timed this raid on purpose in hopes of squelching the support for Ron Paul & to undermine any other currency able to keep people from going broke/superseding the current "air" backed dollar. IMO this has backfired (at least in favor of Ron Paul), their raid created media attention & also distrust in our quickly moving towards Amerifascism government.


Thoughts?

Fiat Currency versus The Liberty Dollar

This is the story on the Liberty Dollar website.

Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:

I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and
Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.

For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the
platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last
Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank
accounts.

We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was
ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and
overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as
defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake
government money.

But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper
certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also
been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been
taken.

This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint,
acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not
violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the
paper currency too.

The possibility of such action was the reason the Liberty Dollar was designed so
that the vast majority of the money was in specie form and in the people?s
hands. Of the $20 million Liberty Dollars, only about a million is in paper or
digital form.

I regret that if you are due an order. It may be some time until it will be
filled... if ever... it now all depends on our actions.

Everyone who has an unfulfilled order or has digital or paper currency should
band together for a class action suit and demand redemption. We cannot allow the
government to steal our money! Please don?t let this happen!!! Many of you read
the articles quoting the government and Federal Reserve officials that the
Liberty Dollar was legal. You did nothing wrong. You are legally entitled to
your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our
goal ? to return America to a value based currency.

Please forward this important Alert... so everyone who possess or use the
Liberty Dollar is aware of the situation.

Please click HERE to sign
up for the class action lawsuit and get your property back!

If the above link does not work you can access the page by copying the following
into your web browser. http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php

Thanks again for your support at this darkest time as the damn government and
their dollar sinks to a new low.

Bernard von NotHaus

Monetary Architect

Wow, just WOW! They trump up some BS charges for what? Nothing other than to maintain control. Amerifascism coming to a town near you.

 

[First]

You'd have to be pretty stupid to believe it's reasonable (or legal) to undermine the U.S. dollar with what has been proven to be far inferior; i.e. hard money gold.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
You'd have to be pretty stupid to believe it's reasonable (or legal) to undermine the U.S. dollar with what has been proven to be far inferior; i.e. hard money gold.

That wasn't the intent of the people producing the Liberty Dollar, but thats exactly what would happen if the dollar collapsed. The fear the FED and government has is very obvious.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Washington Post.com's story "In Ron Paul Coins, Federal Agents Don't Trust" has confirmed a couple things.

The FED and government fear a competing currency that actually will hold its value. The dollar seems to get weaker every day. NORFED then becomes a threat to the FED and government, as the dollar lost value more and more people would turn to gold & silver backed coins & dollars as standard currency. They fear it tremendously. These coins would serve not only hold the value of currency, but also as advertisement. The FED and government timed this raid on purpose in hopes of squelching the support for Ron Paul & to undermine any other currency able to keep people from going broke/superseding the current "air" backed dollar. IMO this has backfired (at least in favor of Ron Paul), their raid created media attention & also distrust in our quickly moving towards Amerifascism government.


Thoughts?

Fiat Currency versus The Liberty Dollar

I think this may be the last nail in the coffin for Paul's nomination as a Republican. It would get the libertarians excited but it would be a turn off for mainstream Republicans.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Heh, it seems that now (after years of printing, minting & trading) the Liberty dollars are illegal to use in commercial transactions. They didn't have a problem with it for years, now all of a sudden it is. Weakening dollar have a play? I think so.

http://www.digg.com/politics/U..._Are_Federal_Criminals

In a stunning development in the private currency movement, the US Mint today announced that the Justice Department has declared that the National Organization for Repeal of the FEDeral Reserve Act (NORFED), its widely known Liberty Dollars, and anyone who uses Liberty Dollars in commercial transactions, is in violation of federal law.

So in other words, they are binding all businesses to the same currency as banks. Take a $10 Liberty silver coin to buy something in a store and be turned away or you both could be held on federal charges. Monetary fascism at work.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

The FED and government timed this raid on purpose in hopes of squelching the support for Ron Paul

:tinfoil;

:roll: You RP people make me want to take him off the list of possible people to support. No, he's not the top in my book but he's better than some. It's too bad you guys might actually be pushing AWAY support.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Heh, it seems that now (after years of printing, minting & trading) the Liberty dollars are illegal to use in commercial transactions. They didn't have a problem with it for years, now all of a sudden it is. Weakening dollar have a play? I think so.

http://www.digg.com/politics/U..._Are_Federal_Criminals

In a stunning development in the private currency movement, the US Mint today announced that the Justice Department has declared that the National Organization for Repeal of the FEDeral Reserve Act (NORFED), its widely known Liberty Dollars, and anyone who uses Liberty Dollars in commercial transactions, is in violation of federal law.

So in other words, they are binding all businesses to the same currency as banks. Take a $10 Liberty silver coin to buy something in a store and be turned away or you both could be held on federal charges. Monetary fascism at work.

Their Liberty dollars are not valid legal tender.

To attempt to use them as such is a violation of Federal law.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Their Liberty dollars are not valid legal tender.

To attempt to use them as such is a violation of Federal law.

Rare, but have to agree with CC on this one.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Heh, it seems that now (after years of printing, minting & trading) the Liberty dollars are illegal to use in commercial transactions. They didn't have a problem with it for years, now all of a sudden it is. Weakening dollar have a play? I think so.

http://www.digg.com/politics/U..._Are_Federal_Criminals

In a stunning development in the private currency movement, the US Mint today announced that the Justice Department has declared that the National Organization for Repeal of the FEDeral Reserve Act (NORFED), its widely known Liberty Dollars, and anyone who uses Liberty Dollars in commercial transactions, is in violation of federal law.

So in other words, they are binding all businesses to the same currency as banks. Take a $10 Liberty silver coin to buy something in a store and be turned away or you both could be held on federal charges. Monetary fascism at work.

Their Liberty dollars are not valid legal tender.

To attempt to use them as such is a violation of Federal law.

Yep.

Question for the audience. I don't know if Paul has a hand in this organization or not, so this isn't an accusation. IF (note IF) Paul materially supported this organization, would he be an accessory to a felony? I'm not sure how this could play out if the Feds wanted to get nasty.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Heh, it seems that now (after years of printing, minting & trading) the Liberty dollars are illegal to use in commercial transactions. They didn't have a problem with it for years, now all of a sudden it is. Weakening dollar have a play? I think so.

http://www.digg.com/politics/U..._Are_Federal_Criminals

In a stunning development in the private currency movement, the US Mint today announced that the Justice Department has declared that the National Organization for Repeal of the FEDeral Reserve Act (NORFED), its widely known Liberty Dollars, and anyone who uses Liberty Dollars in commercial transactions, is in violation of federal law.

So in other words, they are binding all businesses to the same currency as banks. Take a $10 Liberty silver coin to buy something in a store and be turned away or you both could be held on federal charges. Monetary fascism at work.

Their Liberty dollars are not valid legal tender.

To attempt to use them as such is a violation of Federal law.

Yep.

Question for the audience. I don't know if Paul has a hand in this organization or not, so this isn't an accusation. IF (note IF) Paul materially supported this organization, would he be an accessory to a felony? I'm not sure how this could play out if the Feds wanted to get nasty.

His camp has said they had nothing to do with it.

This is actually a repost, since in the Fed thread, I posted something about this there.

What's funny is that these guys think that currency shouldn't appreciate or depreciate in relativity to other currency. Ok, welcome to 1850, dipsh!ts.

The "Liberty Dollar" was never legal currency. It was never used in commercial transactions to any extent. It was never accepted by any major corporations. To attempt to categorize it as anything but a fools currency is laughable. It doesn't surprise me that looney RP "supporters" are attempting to make it into something big.

As somebody above mentioned, all you guys are doing is making people more wary of RP. Stop being freaks and he might just get enough votes to make people notice that others are fed up. Don't and he will be just another Perot.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

What's funny is that these guys think that currency shouldn't appreciate or depreciate in relativity to other currency. Ok, welcome to 1850, dipsh!ts.

Good summation /thread.

 

[bamacre]

What's the difference in using these to buy something at a store, and me trading my neighbor a loaf of bread for a jar of jelly? I don't think bread is legal tender, either.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Washington Post.com's story "In Ron Paul Coins, Federal Agents Don't Trust" has confirmed a couple things.

The FED and government fear a competing currency that actually will hold its value. The dollar seems to get weaker every day. NORFED then becomes a threat to the FED and government, as the dollar lost value more and more people would turn to gold & silver backed coins & dollars as standard currency. They fear it tremendously. These coins would serve not only hold the value of currency, but also as advertisement. The FED and government timed this raid on purpose in hopes of squelching the support for Ron Paul & to undermine any other currency able to keep people from going broke/superseding the current "air" backed dollar. IMO this has backfired (at least in favor of Ron Paul), their raid created media attention & also distrust in our quickly moving towards Amerifascism government.


Thoughts?

Fiat Currency versus The Liberty Dollar

This is the story on the Liberty Dollar website.


Wow, just WOW! They trump up some BS charges for what? Nothing other than to maintain control. Amerifascism coming to a town near you.

Wow, you are clueless.
Making fake money is not a problem. Making fake money but making it look like real money is a problem. Too bad the tinfoilers can't see that.
I should contribute to their defense fund though, I think I'll send this: REAL MONEY

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: bamacre
What's the difference in using these to buy something at a store, and me trading my neighbor a loaf of bread for a jar of jelly? I don't think bread is legal tender, either.

Because a currency is a medium in which all goods are benchmarked. Disaggregation of that medium leads to bartering, as you mentioned, or complicated and super inefficient note systems.

It has never been illegal to barter, but creating your own note system and then trying to benchmark it against others is.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

The FED and government timed this raid on purpose in hopes of squelching the support for Ron Paul

:tinfoil;

:roll: You RP people make me want to take him off the list of possible people to support. No, he's not the top in my book but he's better than some. It's too bad you guys might actually be pushing AWAY support.

If you base your vote on someone who supports a candidate and not the candidate themselves, you are simply an idiot and we wouldn't want your vote anyways. ta ta

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Heh, it seems that now (after years of printing, minting & trading) the Liberty dollars are illegal to use in commercial transactions. They didn't have a problem with it for years, now all of a sudden it is. Weakening dollar have a play? I think so.

http://www.digg.com/politics/U..._Are_Federal_Criminals

In a stunning development in the private currency movement, the US Mint today announced that the Justice Department has declared that the National Organization for Repeal of the FEDeral Reserve Act (NORFED), its widely known Liberty Dollars, and anyone who uses Liberty Dollars in commercial transactions, is in violation of federal law.

So in other words, they are binding all businesses to the same currency as banks. Take a $10 Liberty silver coin to buy something in a store and be turned away or you both could be held on federal charges. Monetary fascism at work.

Their Liberty dollars are not valid legal tender.

To attempt to use them as such is a violation of Federal law.

Thats odd, was nevera problem for years, now all of a sudden it is? Why? Oh yeah, you wanna talk about legal tender? According to the Constitution only GOLD AND SILVER should be legal tender. Quick raid all FED branches. :roll:

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Heh, it seems that now (after years of printing, minting & trading) the Liberty dollars are illegal to use in commercial transactions. They didn't have a problem with it for years, now all of a sudden it is. Weakening dollar have a play? I think so.

http://www.digg.com/politics/U..._Are_Federal_Criminals

In a stunning development in the private currency movement, the US Mint today announced that the Justice Department has declared that the National Organization for Repeal of the FEDeral Reserve Act (NORFED), its widely known Liberty Dollars, and anyone who uses Liberty Dollars in commercial transactions, is in violation of federal law.

So in other words, they are binding all businesses to the same currency as banks. Take a $10 Liberty silver coin to buy something in a store and be turned away or you both could be held on federal charges. Monetary fascism at work.

Their Liberty dollars are not valid legal tender.

To attempt to use them as such is a violation of Federal law.

Yep.

Question for the audience. I don't know if Paul has a hand in this organization or not, so this isn't an accusation. IF (note IF) Paul materially supported this organization, would he be an accessory to a felony? I'm not sure how this could play out if the Feds wanted to get nasty.

His camp has said they had nothing to do with it.

This is actually a repost, since in the Fed thread, I posted something about this there.

What's funny is that these guys think that currency shouldn't appreciate or depreciate in relativity to other currency. Ok, welcome to 1850, dipsh!ts.

No one said that, only you. We want a more stable currency, something not so easily influenced by foreign involvement. The only dipshit here would be someone who thinks that paper is worth more than gold or silver.

The "Liberty Dollar" was never legal currency. It was never used in commercial transactions to any extent. It was never accepted by any major corporations. To attempt to categorize it as anything but a fools currency is laughable. It doesn't surprise me that looney RP "supporters" are attempting to make it into something big.

The Liberty dollar is no more legal tender than the paper money being used now. The Constitution clearly states only gold and silver should be legal tender. You wanna enforce the law? Enforce THAT law why don't ya?


It is something big, these are trumped up charges. Made only to sway public opinion away from a *more* stable currency.

As somebody above mentioned, all you guys are doing is making people more wary of RP. Stop being freaks and he might just get enough votes to make people notice that others are fed up. Don't and he will be just another Perot.

If they are idiots enough to base their vote on what I say, or what another supporter of Ron Paul says, then I don't want their vote.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The government issued the law coming off of the gold standard.

The Liberty dollar is not Federal currency and should not be used as equivalent tender.

To attempt to do so, is a violation of the current law.

Most people do not care or know of this incident. It is the paranoid consipirists taht are concerned.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

The Liberty dollar is no more legal tender than the paper money being used now. The Constitution clearly states only gold and silver should be legal tender. You wanna enforce the law? Enforce THAT law why don't ya?


It is something big, these are trumped up charges. Made only to sway public opinion away from a *more* stable currency.

Originally posted by: Article 10 of the Constitution
Section 10: No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

Of course made up currency is stable, my monopoly money is still worth the same it was when I first played the game. Keep raging against the machine.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
The government issued the law coming off of the gold standard.

The Liberty dollar is not Federal currency and should not be used as equivalent tender.

To attempt to do so, is a violation of the current law.

Most people do not care or know of this incident. It is the paranoid consipirists taht are concerned.

This is interesting:

Andrew Williams, a spokesman for the Federal Reserve in Washington, D.C.:

"There is no law that says goods and services must be paid for with Federal Reserve notes. Parties entering into a transaction can establish any medium of exchange that is agreed upon."

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

The Liberty dollar is no more legal tender than the paper money being used now. The Constitution clearly states only gold and silver should be legal tender. You wanna enforce the law? Enforce THAT law why don't ya?


It is something big, these are trumped up charges. Made only to sway public opinion away from a *more* stable currency.

Originally posted by: Article 10 of the Constitution
Section 10: No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

Of course made up currency is stable, my monopoly money is still worth the same it was when I first played the game. Keep raging against the machine.

You missed something imprtant in your bolding quest.

Section 10. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

This law was never repealed. So you wanna go by the law but don't want to enforce it when it doesn't suit your agenda.

 

[Trell]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
The government issued the law coming off of the gold standard.

The Liberty dollar is not Federal currency and should not be used as equivalent tender.

To attempt to do so, is a violation of the current law.

Most people do not care or know of this incident. It is the paranoid consipirists taht are concerned.

So if someone from Canada wanted to pay for something in the US using Canadian dollars on a 1 to 1 basis that would be illegal since it is not federal currency?

 

[OokiiNeko]

What about casino chips?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Trell

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
The government issued the law coming off of the gold standard.

The Liberty dollar is not Federal currency and should not be used as equivalent tender.

To attempt to do so, is a violation of the current law.

Most people do not care or know of this incident. It is the paranoid conspiratists that are concerned.

So if someone from Canada wanted to pay for something in the US using Canadian dollars on a 1 to 1 basis that would be illegal since it is not federal currency?

Canadian currency is backed by the Canadian government.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: OokiiNeko
What about casino chips?

Casino chips are not legal tender. If you look at any casino, they state that the chips can not be used for purchase of goods or services.


If one wishes to accept a chip in exchange for something, that is your choice; however, no casino, business or person has to accepts them as a monetary equivalent.

The casino chip is only a voucher backed by the good faith of the issuing casino.