Guess the FED doesn't like REAL money

[Train]

Originally posted by: her209
Are checks, debit cards, and credit cards considered legal tender?

No, in the case of credit cards, they are PROMISES to pay with legal tender.

In the case of debit/checks, your bank is promising to back your transactions.

but in the end its dollars that change hands, wether via armored trucks moving bags of money between banks/reserves most likely, digitally.

 

[3chordcharlie]

It kills me that there are still clowns wandering the streets mumbling about REAL MONEY.

No one with the foggiest idea of what money is or how it works would want economies going to a real money system.

Hint: it's called 'deflation' and it cannot be planned for or mitigated in a world of debts.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Fern
I think this whole theoretical discussion about the Fed and the US gov being against Ron Paul etc all misses the real point so completely.

Look, especially you R Paul people - these guys are scammers just trying to take advantage of you and your candidate. They are apparently using Paul's image without permission to seel their "product".

His anti-fed ideas, and you zeal for his candidacy make you easy marks for their con.

FBI remarks: (link )

It also calls the organization a ?multi-level marketing scheme,? saying that distributors make an average profit of $4.66 off every coin, as the amount of silver contained within a $20 Liberty Dollar is valued at $15.34. The affidavit notes this as part of the grounds for its charges of mail and wire fraud, as the Liberty Dollar?s distributors claim that it is ?100 percent backed? by gold and silver.

?The only parties in the process who deal with the ALD [Liberty Dollar] at face value

You do know that they were busted the very day they started shipping their unathorized Ron Paul $20 coins.


These people are not ideological compatriots, they are scammers targeting RP supporters.

Fern

If what they were doing is against the law then they should be brought to justice. I just don't see that happening. Why not enforce the law all the way around then? Shouldn't the FED be getting raided as well? Seeing as how "Gold & Silver is to be used to pay all debts" is not being done by the FED. It's clearly biased, enforce only the laws that support the agenda of the few, the powerful, the FED.

The bills are printed up by the government, so uhh...no. States can't make their own money though unless its coins.

Govt doesnt print bills. The Federal reserve prints bills. The federal reserve is NOT part of the government?? Yes, no , maybe?
What about gift certificates.

 

[piasabird]

You can not mint coins and put the term One Dollar on the coin unless you are the US Mint. This could be considered counterfeit money. Lady Liberty may also be a license issue. Her image on a coin may be illegal to produce. I still do not think that what the Feds did was a very good idea. They could have handled this in a better way. There are probably lots of outfits in the USA who buy and sell gold and silver bullion and coins.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Exactly the reason why they wrote gold & silver into the Constitution. To keep governments from overspending. But again you ignore the law to support your agenda. The economy is overspent, over taxed, over inflated far beyond what it was meant to be. Gold & Silver to pay dents was there to curb spending, preserve a solid backing and to have a more stable currency.

Oh yeah, so while the rest of the world moved on, you want this country, this economy tied to laws written over 200 years ago? I don't have a agenda, I simply want a proven system that has pushed this economy to #1 spot in the world. My children will continue to live in this economy and I don't want some lunatic messed up the system for them.

I guess we should just get rid of free speech too, you know, since that was a 200 year old law as well.

The lunatics are the ones saying "This dollar right here is worth a dollar", when in fact its just a fvcking piece of damned paper. Nothing but tax and debt backing that dollar, the sweat of the American people and foreign investors looking to score off of you rchiu. Why is it such a big deal when someone breaks the law but when the FED does it, its ok?

EDIT: it seems it is legal to use coins and paper money not backed by gold & silver:

Text

The U.S. Constitution, Art. I Sec. 10 Cl. 1, states, in part:
? No State shall ... coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; ... ?

There is no provision in the Constitution delegating authority to Congress to make anything legal tender, other perhaps than the broad authority over federal enclaves in Art. I Sec. 8 Cl. 17, or federal territories and possessions in Art. IV Sec. 3 Cl. 2.

In 1798, Vice President Thomas Jefferson wrote that the federal government has no power ?of making paper money or anything else a legal tender,? and he advocated a constitutional amendment to enforce this principle by denying the federal government the power to borrow.[5]

During the American Civil War, the federal government was unable to pay its debts with gold or silver coin, so began to issue paper notes to pay its debts, and when people refused to accept them in payment, Congress adopted the Legal Tender Act of 1862, compelling them to do so. Thus forced to accept federal notes, the recipients wanted to be able to use them to pay their own debts, and this led to litigation. The United States Supreme Court, with the support of judges recently appointed by President Ulysses S Grant, held that paper money can be legal tender, in the Legal Tender Cases, ranging from 1871 to 1884.

The United States Coinage Act of 1965 states (in part):
? United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts. ?

31 U.S.C. § 5103.

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

1. Great of you to ignore my post about your precious gold backed dollars. It really shows you have no idea what you are talking abotu.

2. It's not a "tax and debt" backed dollar. The dollar is backed by the US economy.

3. The refusal of certain legal tender doesn't mean that they can create their own legal tender, or that they will not accept the normal legal tender.

4. The Fed doesn't break "the law", Congress gives them the power to print bills. Sure, Thomas Jefferson was thinking of limiting Congress' power, but who then would print money? How would transactions be lubricated by a medium in which all goods are denominated?

Face it, the Founding Fathers had a great idea to limit the government to Gold. However, they were thinking in terms of a few ten million people, not 300MM and growing. They were thinking of en economy that might have produced a GDP of a few hundred million, if that, not trillions. They were thinking of a world population probably under a billion, not 6 billion. Furthermore, they were thinking of a world economy far smaller than it is now. It is simply *IMPOSSIBLE* to have all economies encapsulated by gold.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: beyoku
Govt doesnt print bills. The Federal reserve prints bills. The federal reserve is NOT part of the government?? Yes, no , maybe?
What about gift certificates.

Gift certificates are the equivalent to promissary notes

 

[piasabird]

Money is a concept nothing more. It is of course a legal document for trading backed by the US Government. It is only worth something because everyone considers it to be legal tender. This would include the fact that it has market value. Some market gives it value as compared to other currency issued by other governments. It could easily go down so much in value that all your money could be worth nothing. This is a possibility that could definitely occur and has happened in the past.

The Federal reserve manages monetary matters but only with permission of the US Government. You might say they are currently mismanaging our monetary policy. The appointment of the chairman of the Federal Reserve is approved by Congress. You could say that the federal reserve both is and is not part of the government. However, it is federal law that governs the use of currency. Print your own money and you will go to jail and the FBI will be at your door. Even the CIA gets involved in counterfeiting when it involves foreign sources.

It appears this problem with monetary devaluation is becoming a serious problem. The thing is to fix the problem we probably are facing some tough times and the tightening down of monetary policy which could mean higher interest rates and the unavailability of easy credit. This is what happens when you lower the interest rate for banks to zero. It becomes too low to make a real profit. How can you make money on treasury notes when the prime lending rate is so low?