Guess the FED doesn't like REAL money

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain
Of course made up currency is stable, my monopoly money is still worth the same it was when I first played the game. Keep raging against the machine.

You must not have seen the "People's Choice" edition of Monopoly. All the money is in million$ now.

 

[1prophet]

What about these here?

 

[Nebor]

Sounds to me like they got robbed by thugs with guns (and badges.) The best way to deal with such savage robbers is with lethal force. Absolutely nothing is yours unless you have the ability to secure it.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

The Liberty dollar is no more legal tender than the paper money being used now. The Constitution clearly states only gold and silver should be legal tender. You wanna enforce the law? Enforce THAT law why don't ya?


It is something big, these are trumped up charges. Made only to sway public opinion away from a *more* stable currency.

Originally posted by: Article 10 of the Constitution
Section 10: No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

Of course made up currency is stable, my monopoly money is still worth the same it was when I first played the game. Keep raging against the machine.

You missed something imprtant in your bolding quest.

Section 10. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

This law was never repealed. So you wanna go by the law but don't want to enforce it when it doesn't suit your agenda.

So does the word state completely escape you? No STATE. Not the federal government. Amazing you'd miss the word the state, since you seem to harp on it in other threads.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

The Liberty dollar is no more legal tender than the paper money being used now. The Constitution clearly states only gold and silver should be legal tender. You wanna enforce the law? Enforce THAT law why don't ya?


It is something big, these are trumped up charges. Made only to sway public opinion away from a *more* stable currency.

Originally posted by: Article 10 of the Constitution
Section 10: No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

Of course made up currency is stable, my monopoly money is still worth the same it was when I first played the game. Keep raging against the machine.

You missed something imprtant in your bolding quest.

Section 10. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

This law was never repealed. So you wanna go by the law but don't want to enforce it when it doesn't suit your agenda.

So does the word state completely escape you? No STATE. Not the federal government. Amazing you'd miss the word the state, since you seem to harp on it in other threads.

The founding fathers never envisioned a federal government like we have. It's the one thing they never wanted.

 

[papadage]

Considering that they value an oz. of silver at $20, prevent easy conversion back into US Dollars, and even then, only convert back at the commodity price of silver, aren't these Liberty Dollars any more than a Ponzi scheme?

Buy $20 coins worht only $15 in silver, get back $15 when converting back, but only $200 at a time. In reality, it's just overpriced silver, since they keep the exchange rate of the money at above the dollar denominated value of the silver content. The Liberty Dollar is ALWAYS a bad deal.

Oh, and when the Constitution mentions State, it means State. Only the Federal Government, as a governmental entity, is allowed to issue coinage. That has nothing to do with the current case, which is private "currency".

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

The Liberty dollar is no more legal tender than the paper money being used now. The Constitution clearly states only gold and silver should be legal tender. You wanna enforce the law? Enforce THAT law why don't ya?


It is something big, these are trumped up charges. Made only to sway public opinion away from a *more* stable currency.

Originally posted by: Article 10 of the Constitution
Section 10: No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

Of course made up currency is stable, my monopoly money is still worth the same it was when I first played the game. Keep raging against the machine.

You missed something imprtant in your bolding quest.

Section 10. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

This law was never repealed. So you wanna go by the law but don't want to enforce it when it doesn't suit your agenda.

So does the word state completely escape you? No STATE. Not the federal government. Amazing you'd miss the word the state, since you seem to harp on it in other threads.

Are you thtupid? The state didn't release them. :laugh:

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

The Liberty dollar is no more legal tender than the paper money being used now. The Constitution clearly states only gold and silver should be legal tender. You wanna enforce the law? Enforce THAT law why don't ya?


It is something big, these are trumped up charges. Made only to sway public opinion away from a *more* stable currency.

Originally posted by: Article 10 of the Constitution
Section 10: No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

Of course made up currency is stable, my monopoly money is still worth the same it was when I first played the game. Keep raging against the machine.

You missed something imprtant in your bolding quest.

Section 10. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

This law was never repealed. So you wanna go by the law but don't want to enforce it when it doesn't suit your agenda.

So does the word state completely escape you? No STATE. Not the federal government. Amazing you'd miss the word the state, since you seem to harp on it in other threads.

The founding fathers never envisioned a federal government like we have. It's the one thing they never wanted.

Really. They also didn't have a problem with slavery and forbidding women to vote, so not every idea they had was a good one.

 

[Monotaur]

How come no one mentions the other currencies that have been issues in recent years in other parts of the US? I think recently there was a town in the North Eastern US that issues it's own currency for a while... I believe the exchange rate between it and the USD was 10:1. Why hasn't the Fed raided the people's mint? They even engaged in commerce using this currency. Anyone remember this? I couldn't find a link...

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

The Liberty dollar is no more legal tender than the paper money being used now. The Constitution clearly states only gold and silver should be legal tender. You wanna enforce the law? Enforce THAT law why don't ya?


It is something big, these are trumped up charges. Made only to sway public opinion away from a *more* stable currency.

Originally posted by: Article 10 of the Constitution
Section 10: No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

Of course made up currency is stable, my monopoly money is still worth the same it was when I first played the game. Keep raging against the machine.

You missed something imprtant in your bolding quest.

Section 10. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

This law was never repealed. So you wanna go by the law but don't want to enforce it when it doesn't suit your agenda.

So does the word state completely escape you? No STATE. Not the federal government. Amazing you'd miss the word the state, since you seem to harp on it in other threads.

The founding fathers never envisioned a federal government like we have. It's the one thing they never wanted.

Really. They also didn't have a problem with slavery and forbidding women to vote, so not every idea they had was a good one.

Well... Belittling one of their ideas because their other ones were bad is just dumb. The IDEA of REAL MONEY is good. Who cares where the idea came from?

 

[papadage]

Still not real money if they denominate and issue their currency to ALWAYS be worth more thna the silver that's in it. They sell you $15 of silver for $20, then when you cash out, will only do it at the silver value.

 

[BoberFett]

Sorry, but I don't feel any sympathy for those that bought into the Liberty Dollar. It's no legal US tender, so they shouldn't have been trying to pass it off as such. You can make all the fake money you want and use it as a pure barter system. People do it all the time. But as soon as you try to pass off your funny money as real money, to quote from the website:

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/about/index.htm">IT'S REAL MONEY!
The Liberty Dollar is real, private currency that you can use instead of your familiar US dollars. You can spend Liberty Dollars just like U.S. dollars.</a>

then you're just a counterfeiter. It's unfortunate that Ron Paul's name got dragged into this at all.

 

[Fern]

I think this whole theoretical discussion about the Fed and the US gov being against Ron Paul etc all misses the real point so completely.

Look, especially you R Paul people - these guys are scammers just trying to take advantage of you and your candidate. They are apparently using Paul's image without permission to seel their "product".

His anti-fed ideas, and you zeal for his candidacy make you easy marks for their con.

FBI remarks: (link )

It also calls the organization a ?multi-level marketing scheme,? saying that distributors make an average profit of $4.66 off every coin, as the amount of silver contained within a $20 Liberty Dollar is valued at $15.34. The affidavit notes this as part of the grounds for its charges of mail and wire fraud, as the Liberty Dollar?s distributors claim that it is ?100 percent backed? by gold and silver.

?The only parties in the process who deal with the ALD [Liberty Dollar] at face value

You do know that they were busted the very day they started shipping their unathorized Ron Paul $20 coins.


These people are not ideological compatriots, they are scammers targeting RP supporters.

Fern

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Fern
I think this whole theoretical discussion about the Fed and the US gov being against Ron Paul etc all misses the real point so completely.

Look, especially you R Paul people - these guys are scammers just trying to take advantage of you and your candidate. They are apparently using Paul's image without permission to seel their "product".

His anti-fed ideas, and you zeal for his candidacy make you easy marks for their con.

FBI remarks: (link )

It also calls the organization a ?multi-level marketing scheme,? saying that distributors make an average profit of $4.66 off every coin, as the amount of silver contained within a $20 Liberty Dollar is valued at $15.34. The affidavit notes this as part of the grounds for its charges of mail and wire fraud, as the Liberty Dollar?s distributors claim that it is ?100 percent backed? by gold and silver.

?The only parties in the process who deal with the ALD [Liberty Dollar] at face value

You do know that they were busted the very day they started shipping their unathorized Ron Paul $20 coins.


These people are not ideological compatriots, they are scammers targeting RP supporters.

Fern

If what they were doing is against the law then they should be brought to justice. I just don't see that happening. Why not enforce the law all the way around then? Shouldn't the FED be getting raided as well? Seeing as how "Gold & Silver is to be used to pay all debts" is not being done by the FED. It's clearly biased, enforce only the laws that support the agenda of the few, the powerful, the FED.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Fern
I think this whole theoretical discussion about the Fed and the US gov being against Ron Paul etc all misses the real point so completely.

Look, especially you R Paul people - these guys are scammers just trying to take advantage of you and your candidate. They are apparently using Paul's image without permission to seel their "product".

His anti-fed ideas, and you zeal for his candidacy make you easy marks for their con.

FBI remarks: (link )

It also calls the organization a ?multi-level marketing scheme,? saying that distributors make an average profit of $4.66 off every coin, as the amount of silver contained within a $20 Liberty Dollar is valued at $15.34. The affidavit notes this as part of the grounds for its charges of mail and wire fraud, as the Liberty Dollar?s distributors claim that it is ?100 percent backed? by gold and silver.

?The only parties in the process who deal with the ALD [Liberty Dollar] at face value

You do know that they were busted the very day they started shipping their unathorized Ron Paul $20 coins.


These people are not ideological compatriots, they are scammers targeting RP supporters.

Fern

If what they were doing is against the law then they should be brought to justice. I just don't see that happening. Why not enforce the law all the way around then? Shouldn't the FED be getting raided as well? Seeing as how "Gold & Silver is to be used to pay all debts" is not being done by the FED. It's clearly biased, enforce only the laws that support the agenda of the few, the powerful, the FED.

The bills are printed up by the government, so uhh...no. States can't make their own money though unless its coins.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Fern
I think this whole theoretical discussion about the Fed and the US gov being against Ron Paul etc all misses the real point so completely.

Look, especially you R Paul people - these guys are scammers just trying to take advantage of you and your candidate. They are apparently using Paul's image without permission to seel their "product".

His anti-fed ideas, and you zeal for his candidacy make you easy marks for their con.

FBI remarks: (link )

It also calls the organization a ?multi-level marketing scheme,? saying that distributors make an average profit of $4.66 off every coin, as the amount of silver contained within a $20 Liberty Dollar is valued at $15.34. The affidavit notes this as part of the grounds for its charges of mail and wire fraud, as the Liberty Dollar?s distributors claim that it is ?100 percent backed? by gold and silver.

?The only parties in the process who deal with the ALD [Liberty Dollar] at face value

You do know that they were busted the very day they started shipping their unathorized Ron Paul $20 coins.


These people are not ideological compatriots, they are scammers targeting RP supporters.

Fern

If what they were doing is against the law then they should be brought to justice. I just don't see that happening. Why not enforce the law all the way around then? Shouldn't the FED be getting raided as well? Seeing as how "Gold & Silver is to be used to pay all debts" is not being done by the FED. It's clearly biased, enforce only the laws that support the agenda of the few, the powerful, the FED.

The bills are printed up by the government, so uhh...no. States can't make their own money though unless its coins.

Why do you keep saying "states" when no one besides you has even mentioned it? Has nothing to do with the topic, paying debts in gold and silver does, however.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Fern
I think this whole theoretical discussion about the Fed and the US gov being against Ron Paul etc all misses the real point so completely.

Look, especially you R Paul people - these guys are scammers just trying to take advantage of you and your candidate. They are apparently using Paul's image without permission to seel their "product".

His anti-fed ideas, and you zeal for his candidacy make you easy marks for their con.

FBI remarks: (link )

It also calls the organization a ?multi-level marketing scheme,? saying that distributors make an average profit of $4.66 off every coin, as the amount of silver contained within a $20 Liberty Dollar is valued at $15.34. The affidavit notes this as part of the grounds for its charges of mail and wire fraud, as the Liberty Dollar?s distributors claim that it is ?100 percent backed? by gold and silver.

?The only parties in the process who deal with the ALD [Liberty Dollar] at face value

You do know that they were busted the very day they started shipping their unathorized Ron Paul $20 coins.


These people are not ideological compatriots, they are scammers targeting RP supporters.

Fern

If what they were doing is against the law then they should be brought to justice. I just don't see that happening. Why not enforce the law all the way around then? Shouldn't the FED be getting raided as well? Seeing as how "Gold & Silver is to be used to pay all debts" is not being done by the FED. It's clearly biased, enforce only the laws that support the agenda of the few, the powerful, the FED.

what part of multi-level marketing scheme and profit of $4.66 off $20 coin don't you understand? Please educate us based on your infinite wisdom on how the Fed is profiting from issuing the dollar and to whom those profit goes to? If you love 1800 so much and wanna live by the rule made up that time, there are plenty of third world countries you can go to. Here we just moved into 21st century and prefer to live by rules fit to the economy reality today.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Fern
I think this whole theoretical discussion about the Fed and the US gov being against Ron Paul etc all misses the real point so completely.

Look, especially you R Paul people - these guys are scammers just trying to take advantage of you and your candidate. They are apparently using Paul's image without permission to seel their "product".

His anti-fed ideas, and you zeal for his candidacy make you easy marks for their con.

FBI remarks: (link )

It also calls the organization a ?multi-level marketing scheme,? saying that distributors make an average profit of $4.66 off every coin, as the amount of silver contained within a $20 Liberty Dollar is valued at $15.34. The affidavit notes this as part of the grounds for its charges of mail and wire fraud, as the Liberty Dollar?s distributors claim that it is ?100 percent backed? by gold and silver.

?The only parties in the process who deal with the ALD [Liberty Dollar] at face value

You do know that they were busted the very day they started shipping their unathorized Ron Paul $20 coins.


These people are not ideological compatriots, they are scammers targeting RP supporters.

Fern

If what they were doing is against the law then they should be brought to justice. I just don't see that happening. Why not enforce the law all the way around then? Shouldn't the FED be getting raided as well? Seeing as how "Gold & Silver is to be used to pay all debts" is not being done by the FED. It's clearly biased, enforce only the laws that support the agenda of the few, the powerful, the FED.

what part of multi-level marketing scheme and profit of $4.66 off $20 coin don't you understand? Please educate us based on your infinite wisdom on how the Fed is profiting from issuing the dollar and to whom those profit goes to? If you love 1800 so much and wanna live by the rule made up that time, there are plenty of third world countries you can go to. Here we just moved into 21st century and prefer to live by rules fit to the economy reality today.

If you don't like the laws of this land MOVE. This country believe it or not was founded and politicians are sworn to uphold the Constitution the moment they take office. Yet when this is pointed out, you and others disregard it because it doesn't suit your agenda. Get with the law. Agenda based law is fascist. You would be better served in that third world country you speak of. by all means, if you don't like the law either 1) leave 2) change it.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Fern
I think this whole theoretical discussion about the Fed and the US gov being against Ron Paul etc all misses the real point so completely.

Look, especially you R Paul people - these guys are scammers just trying to take advantage of you and your candidate. They are apparently using Paul's image without permission to seel their "product".

His anti-fed ideas, and you zeal for his candidacy make you easy marks for their con.

FBI remarks: (link )

It also calls the organization a ?multi-level marketing scheme,? saying that distributors make an average profit of $4.66 off every coin, as the amount of silver contained within a $20 Liberty Dollar is valued at $15.34. The affidavit notes this as part of the grounds for its charges of mail and wire fraud, as the Liberty Dollar?s distributors claim that it is ?100 percent backed? by gold and silver.

?The only parties in the process who deal with the ALD [Liberty Dollar] at face value

You do know that they were busted the very day they started shipping their unathorized Ron Paul $20 coins.


These people are not ideological compatriots, they are scammers targeting RP supporters.

Fern

If what they were doing is against the law then they should be brought to justice. I just don't see that happening. Why not enforce the law all the way around then? Shouldn't the FED be getting raided as well? Seeing as how "Gold & Silver is to be used to pay all debts" is not being done by the FED. It's clearly biased, enforce only the laws that support the agenda of the few, the powerful, the FED.

what part of multi-level marketing scheme and profit of $4.66 off $20 coin don't you understand? Please educate us based on your infinite wisdom on how the Fed is profiting from issuing the dollar and to whom those profit goes to? If you love 1800 so much and wanna live by the rule made up that time, there are plenty of third world countries you can go to. Here we just moved into 21st century and prefer to live by rules fit to the economy reality today.

If you don't like the laws of this land MOVE. This country believe it or not was founded and politicians are sworn to uphold the Constitution the moment they take office. Yet when this is pointed out, you and others disregard it because it doesn't suit your agenda. Get with the law. Agenda based law is fascist. You would be better served in that third world country you speak of. by all means, if you don't like the law either 1) leave 2) change it.

Simple question. How big is the US economy today? How much gold/silver does it take to backup a currency to support the US economy today? What is the total supply of gold/silver in the world today? When you figure out these question, you'd see the idea you support is just a fantasy.

 

[Train]

A little dated, as the dollar amounts per ounce show (kicking myself for not buying gold a couple years ago) But this does have some interesting tidbits on how much gold there is in the world.

It is amazing, but the total amount of gold in the world is a surprisingly small quantity. Here's how you can calculate the total amount that is available.

If you look at a page like this one, or if you look it up in an encyclopedia, you will find that the annual worldwide production of gold is something like 50 million troy ounces per year. Gold has a specific gravity of 19.3, meaning that it is 19.3 times heavier than water. So gold weighs 19.3 kilograms per liter. A liter is a cube that measures 10 centimeters (about 4 inches) on a side. There are 32.15 troy ounces in a kilogram. Therefore, the world produces a cube of gold that is about 4.3 meters (about 14 feet) on each side every year. In other words, all of the gold produced worldwide in one year could just about fit in the average person's living room!

This cube weighs 1,555,210 kilograms (3,110,420 pounds). A recent spot price for gold was $256.10 U.S. -- using that number, all of the gold produced in a year is worth $12,805,000,000. That's a lot of money, but not an unimaginable amount. For example, that's about how much the Pentagon spent launching the GPS satellite system. NASA's budget in 1998 was $13.6 billion.

Figuring out the total amount of gold that has been produced by man is a little harder. To get at some kind of estimate, let's figure that the world has been producing gold at 50 million ounces a year for 200 years. That number is probably a little high, but when you figure that the Aztecs and the Egyptians produced a fair amount of gold for a long time, it's probably not too far off. Fifty million ounces * 200 years = 10 billion ounces. Ten billion ounces of gold would fit into a cube roughly 25 meters (about 82 feet) on a side. Consider that the Washington Monument measures 55 feet by 55 feet at its base and is 555 feet tall (17 x 17 x 170 m). That means that if you could somehow gather every scrap of gold that man has ever mined into one place, you could only build about one-third of the Washington Monument.

EDIT:
So at todays value ($700/oz last I saw?) thats 7 Trillion dollars worth of gold in the whole world. The U.S. govt OWES more than that, and the govt debt is what? a single digit % of GDP?

And if you factor in all the other currencies in the world, the actual amount of money in circulation per ounce of gold would be pretty ridiculous.

2nd EDIT:
An interesting fact.. even though all the gold in the world would be worth $7 trillion at todays rate, theres only $6 trillion in total value of all actual US dollars and coins in existence.

3rd EDIT:
frikkin a, gold is over $800 an ounce now. thats frikkin nuts.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Fern
I think this whole theoretical discussion about the Fed and the US gov being against Ron Paul etc all misses the real point so completely.

Look, especially you R Paul people - these guys are scammers just trying to take advantage of you and your candidate. They are apparently using Paul's image without permission to seel their "product".

His anti-fed ideas, and you zeal for his candidacy make you easy marks for their con.

FBI remarks: (link )

It also calls the organization a ?multi-level marketing scheme,? saying that distributors make an average profit of $4.66 off every coin, as the amount of silver contained within a $20 Liberty Dollar is valued at $15.34. The affidavit notes this as part of the grounds for its charges of mail and wire fraud, as the Liberty Dollar?s distributors claim that it is ?100 percent backed? by gold and silver.

?The only parties in the process who deal with the ALD [Liberty Dollar] at face value

You do know that they were busted the very day they started shipping their unathorized Ron Paul $20 coins.


These people are not ideological compatriots, they are scammers targeting RP supporters.

Fern

If what they were doing is against the law then they should be brought to justice. I just don't see that happening. Why not enforce the law all the way around then? Shouldn't the FED be getting raided as well? Seeing as how "Gold & Silver is to be used to pay all debts" is not being done by the FED. It's clearly biased, enforce only the laws that support the agenda of the few, the powerful, the FED.

what part of multi-level marketing scheme and profit of $4.66 off $20 coin don't you understand? Please educate us based on your infinite wisdom on how the Fed is profiting from issuing the dollar and to whom those profit goes to? If you love 1800 so much and wanna live by the rule made up that time, there are plenty of third world countries you can go to. Here we just moved into 21st century and prefer to live by rules fit to the economy reality today.

If you don't like the laws of this land MOVE. This country believe it or not was founded and politicians are sworn to uphold the Constitution the moment they take office. Yet when this is pointed out, you and others disregard it because it doesn't suit your agenda. Get with the law. Agenda based law is fascist. You would be better served in that third world country you speak of. by all means, if you don't like the law either 1) leave 2) change it.

Simple question. How big is the US economy today? How much gold/silver does it take to backup a currency to support the US economy today? What is the total supply of gold/silver in the world today? When you figure out these question, you'd see the idea you support is just a fantasy.

Exactly the reason why they wrote gold & silver into the Constitution. To keep governments from overspending. But again you ignore the law to support your agenda. The economy is overspent, over taxed, over inflated far beyond what it was meant to be. Gold & Silver to pay dents was there to curb spending, preserve a solid backing and to have a more stable currency.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Fern
I think this whole theoretical discussion about the Fed and the US gov being against Ron Paul etc all misses the real point so completely.

Look, especially you R Paul people - these guys are scammers just trying to take advantage of you and your candidate. They are apparently using Paul's image without permission to seel their "product".

His anti-fed ideas, and you zeal for his candidacy make you easy marks for their con.

FBI remarks: (link )

It also calls the organization a ?multi-level marketing scheme,? saying that distributors make an average profit of $4.66 off every coin, as the amount of silver contained within a $20 Liberty Dollar is valued at $15.34. The affidavit notes this as part of the grounds for its charges of mail and wire fraud, as the Liberty Dollar?s distributors claim that it is ?100 percent backed? by gold and silver.

?The only parties in the process who deal with the ALD [Liberty Dollar] at face value

You do know that they were busted the very day they started shipping their unathorized Ron Paul $20 coins.


These people are not ideological compatriots, they are scammers targeting RP supporters.

Fern

If what they were doing is against the law then they should be brought to justice. I just don't see that happening. Why not enforce the law all the way around then? Shouldn't the FED be getting raided as well? Seeing as how "Gold & Silver is to be used to pay all debts" is not being done by the FED. It's clearly biased, enforce only the laws that support the agenda of the few, the powerful, the FED.

what part of multi-level marketing scheme and profit of $4.66 off $20 coin don't you understand? Please educate us based on your infinite wisdom on how the Fed is profiting from issuing the dollar and to whom those profit goes to? If you love 1800 so much and wanna live by the rule made up that time, there are plenty of third world countries you can go to. Here we just moved into 21st century and prefer to live by rules fit to the economy reality today.

If you don't like the laws of this land MOVE. This country believe it or not was founded and politicians are sworn to uphold the Constitution the moment they take office. Yet when this is pointed out, you and others disregard it because it doesn't suit your agenda. Get with the law. Agenda based law is fascist. You would be better served in that third world country you speak of. by all means, if you don't like the law either 1) leave 2) change it.

Simple question. How big is the US economy today? How much gold/silver does it take to backup a currency to support the US economy today? What is the total supply of gold/silver in the world today? When you figure out these question, you'd see the idea you support is just a fantasy.

Exactly the reason why they wrote gold & silver into the Constitution. To keep governments from overspending. But again you ignore the law to support your agenda. The economy is overspent, over taxed, over inflated far beyond what it was meant to be. Gold & Silver to pay dents was there to curb spending, preserve a solid backing and to have a more stable currency.

Do you know that it was to prevent overspending? Overspending on what? Do you realize that one of the reasons why they added it was to prevent governments from preventing the free flow of goods and commerce?

However, the problem with denominating and transacting pegged to a commodity is that your currency is forever tied to that currency. THus, if gold goes up in price your currency has to devalue to maintain the same value relative to other currencies. If it does not, that means your currency also becomes worth more (when it really isn't) which deflates the value of your currency. You see, because you are tied to an inflating currency your currency must deflate in relative terms to keep on parity with all other qorld currencies tied to the commodity. What would happen if the commodity declines in price? Then your currency is worth less while goods are not, thus your currency inflates in price.

So essentially, you are tied to the whims of a commodity. As we see from oil, commodities go up and down in price, prone to speculation, new discoveries, strangleholds on supply, cartels, manufacturing problems...etc. When economies were small and not that many large groups of people were mobile and modernizing it wasn't a problem. Furthermore, when industrial uses and civilian uses were small, it wasn't a problem.

However, eventually that will go away. Supply problems with begin to cause problems. Addtionally, since there is a finite supply of gold but an infinite supply of economic growth and economic value (wealth accumulated) then you will eventually have to deflate your currency. In addition, since economies fluctuate, the demand of gold does also, this could lead to sharp volatility.

As shown above, the total amount of gold in circulation equates roughly to the amount of US currency in circulation. That means, in order to put all currencies to gold at the current price, you'd need ~5x the amount of gold currently in circulation. That doesn't even include the amount of gold in private hands. Every government in the world would need to confiscate all gold.

if not, then you would see gold purchased, en masse, by governments, driving up prices and driving out manufacturing, consumers, and goods and services. Essentially, moving to the gold standard would destroy the market for gold.

Sure, one could limit the amount of currency in circulation. However, what then about the fact that the wealth created in a growing economy and population, needs to be backed by something? It *HAS* to have money to transact and gold to keep. Otherwise it will become more rare, appreciate with gold, and cause rampant deflation (or inflation in the case of different effects).

It's laughable that *anybody* thinks that the amount of currency in circulation is strictly dictated by the amount of debt. Consider that the amount of debt is 9tr and the amount of currency is 7tr, how does that work? No, the amount of currency in circulation is dictated not just by debt, but also by wealth and accumulation of such, along with population growth.

If a currency is not allowed to float, it will eventually move to monopolize *all* gold, causing massive price appreciation and eventual economic collapse. It's simple economics and truth, ignorance of such is plethoric among some people here.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Exactly the reason why they wrote gold & silver into the Constitution. To keep governments from overspending. But again you ignore the law to support your agenda. The economy is overspent, over taxed, over inflated far beyond what it was meant to be. Gold & Silver to pay dents was there to curb spending, preserve a solid backing and to have a more stable currency.

Oh yeah, so while the rest of the world moved on, you want this country, this economy tied to laws written over 200 years ago? I don't have a agenda, I simply want a proven system that has pushed this economy to #1 spot in the world. My children will continue to live in this economy and I don't want some lunatic messed up the system for them.

 

[her209]

Are checks, debit cards, and credit cards considered legal tender?

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Exactly the reason why they wrote gold & silver into the Constitution. To keep governments from overspending. But again you ignore the law to support your agenda. The economy is overspent, over taxed, over inflated far beyond what it was meant to be. Gold & Silver to pay dents was there to curb spending, preserve a solid backing and to have a more stable currency.

Oh yeah, so while the rest of the world moved on, you want this country, this economy tied to laws written over 200 years ago? I don't have a agenda, I simply want a proven system that has pushed this economy to #1 spot in the world. My children will continue to live in this economy and I don't want some lunatic messed up the system for them.

I guess we should just get rid of free speech too, you know, since that was a 200 year old law as well.

The lunatics are the ones saying "This dollar right here is worth a dollar", when in fact its just a fvcking piece of damned paper. Nothing but tax and debt backing that dollar, the sweat of the American people and foreign investors looking to score off of you rchiu. Why is it such a big deal when someone breaks the law but when the FED does it, its ok?

EDIT: it seems it is legal to use coins and paper money not backed by gold & silver:

Text

The U.S. Constitution, Art. I Sec. 10 Cl. 1, states, in part:
? No State shall ... coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; ... ?

There is no provision in the Constitution delegating authority to Congress to make anything legal tender, other perhaps than the broad authority over federal enclaves in Art. I Sec. 8 Cl. 17, or federal territories and possessions in Art. IV Sec. 3 Cl. 2.

In 1798, Vice President Thomas Jefferson wrote that the federal government has no power ?of making paper money or anything else a legal tender,? and he advocated a constitutional amendment to enforce this principle by denying the federal government the power to borrow.[5]

During the American Civil War, the federal government was unable to pay its debts with gold or silver coin, so began to issue paper notes to pay its debts, and when people refused to accept them in payment, Congress adopted the Legal Tender Act of 1862, compelling them to do so. Thus forced to accept federal notes, the recipients wanted to be able to use them to pay their own debts, and this led to litigation. The United States Supreme Court, with the support of judges recently appointed by President Ulysses S Grant, held that paper money can be legal tender, in the Legal Tender Cases, ranging from 1871 to 1884.

The United States Coinage Act of 1965 states (in part):
? United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts. ?

31 U.S.C. § 5103.

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.