Gun Control is not about guns. It's about control.

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

berzerker60

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2012
1,233
1
0
That's an interpretation that is left to the Supreme Court. You can express your opinion, but I can hardly imagine that you yourself are the final authority on Constitutional intent.

Not for home defense against your neighbor? There was no Constitutional provison for a police force. Does that mean the correct interpretation was that the founding fathers desired us to not defend ourselves? No, I think it would be common sense to think that a firearm is the perfect tool for self defense. Perhaps they didn't envision a society that has lost common sense.
Who cares what the Founders' intent was? If the second amendment no longer protects more than it allows harm, then it needs to go. Just like the parts about slaves being worth 3/5 of a vote and the amendment institution prohibition.

There are several artifacts in your house that can be relatively easy modified to become "mass killing machines". If someone has will and intent, the will find a way.

No there aren't, not with the efficiency and potential deadliness of a gun. Even things like mass fertilizer purchases are watched after Oklahoma City, because we recognize that every other type of weapon is dangerous to just let out there.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,686
6,195
126
Gun Control is not about guns. It's about control.

Yes, it is about mind control, a hypnotic stimulus that when fondled and manipulated by the hypnotic subject autonomically produces a trained reaction, a set of mental beliefs that cause the brainwashed subject to vomit up a bunch of pre-digested beliefs that act to prevent the subjects mind from any sort of rational thinking. Whisper gun control in the ear of the subject and he instantly manifests a pre-programmed paranoid insanity. This technique, the control of the masses by the indoctrination of the fear of being controlled is profoundly effective. The lunatic eats his own tail, feeds as it were, off the vaporous fictions of his own now self induced hallucinations. There is no escape for the fools who are controlled by this means. They have painted the bars of their prison with the words freedom. This is the fate of low grade inferior, but egotistical minds. Their emptiness has been filled with a raison d'être.
 

Farmer

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2003
3,345
2
81
Who cares what the Founders' intent was? If the second amendment no longer protects more than it allows harm, then it needs to go. Just like the parts about slaves being worth 3/5 of a vote and the amendment institution prohibition.

Do you know what American society would be like if all 2nd amendment rights were abolished? Because I sure don't.

But please, if you're smart enough to know, inform us.
 

berzerker60

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2012
1,233
1
0
Do you know what American society would be like if all 2nd amendment rights were abolished? Because I sure don't.

But please, if you're smart enough to know, inform us.

Of course I don't 'know,' because no one can predict the future. No one 'knew' what America would be like without slavery or after abolishing the 18th amendment, either, but they decided that the costs of keeping them were too high and the expected cost of abolishing them were lower.

I'd suspect that without the 2nd amendment, you'd continue to have handguns in homes and hunting rifles with some licensing process remain legal, and over a decade or two's worth of mass shootings, you might see more restrictions on assault rifles, extended clips, etc. The gun lobby has too much money and influence for anything drastic to happen in the medium-term.
 

Farmer

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2003
3,345
2
81
Of course I don't 'know,' because no one can predict the future. No one 'knew' what America would be like without slavery or after abolishing the 18th amendment, either, but they decided that the costs of keeping them were too high and the expected cost of abolishing them were lower.

I'd suspect that without the 2nd amendment, you'd continue to have handguns in homes and hunting rifles with some licensing process remain legal, and over a decade or two's worth of mass shootings, you might see more restrictions on assault rifles, extended clips, etc. The gun lobby has too much money and influence for anything drastic to happen in the medium-term.

And what benefit would this have? Other than to destroy the gun industry, an industry which employs millions?

In most areas in the United States where such legislation has passed, strict gun control has no correlation with gun crime rate. What makes you think it will effect the rate at which mass shootings occur? Why should gun control policy be solely based upon the goal of reducing the number of mass shootings?

Have you, in your life, ever met a gun owner?

The comparison to slavery is inane. Slavery is a blatant violation of human rights. The right to own a firearm is not.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
We need to change our culture, more or less guns will not help anyone or anything. We are fundamentally broken as a country, and it has nothing to do with guns.

Oh and FYI in 10 states guns ARE more dangerous than cars.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/gun-deaths-exceed-motor-v_b_1536793.html

But violence in America is the problem, not guns.

I have stated that many times here. We have a violence problem in America, but the gun has become the number 1 option in that violence.
 

Farmer

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2003
3,345
2
81
I have stated that many times here. We have a violence problem in America, but the gun has become the number 1 option in that violence.

So you want to make more laws?

I'm pretty sure it's against many current gun laws to steal your mom's guns. But since he did it, obviously the solution is to pass just a lot more laws against guns.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
and heart disease is the number one cause of death each year. should we outlaw fatty foods?

what about cancer? ban all hazardous chemicals?

Here's a cool little site about deaths. The Starfield estimate of 100,000+ accidental hospital deaths per year published in the Journal of American Medical Association (JAMA) has always been one of my favorites.
http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/mistakes/common.htm
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,034
2,613
136
Do you know what American society would be like if all 2nd amendment rights were abolished? Because I sure don't.

But please, if you're smart enough to know, inform us.

People said the same thing about slavery, interracial marriage, and say the same thing about gay marriage and universal healthcare. Fear of the unknown is not a good reason to stick to ideas that don't work in the current social milieu.

But honestly, I do think the best argument to not change gun laws is its really kind of overblown. Yes people die in violent deaths every year, but we would save way more lives and be a healthier happier society if we focused on other things that kill way more people, do it more slowly, and cost way way more.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,034
2,613
136
Slavery is a blatant violation of human rights. The right to own a firearm is not.

I believe its the right to bear arms. Why does that specifically have to mean a firearm? A tazer, a gun, a portable missile launcher, and a sarin gas sprayer are all arms for example.
 

Farmer

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2003
3,345
2
81
I believe its the right to bear arms. Why does that specifically have to mean a firearm? A tazer, a gun, a portable missile launcher, and a sarin gas sprayer are all arms for example.

You believe? It is the writing. Ok, the right to bear arms. Does this change my argument at all?

Suppose I own a portable missile launcher. Maybe also a sarin gas sprayer. I keep them both in my garage, I harm no one. Have I somehow encroached upon your rights?

Despite this argument being academic as the modern day interpretation of the 2nd amendment does not include the devices you mentioned (that is a different argument), just replace any of these items with a firearm.
 
Last edited:

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
The senseless killings will continue until enough people pull their heads out of their asses.

So the millions killed before guns existed tell us that when guns go away, and people have pulled their heads out of their asses that there won't be anymore senseless killing? Brilliant.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Who cares what the Founders' intent was? If the second amendment no longer protects more than it allows harm, then it needs to go. Just like the parts about slaves being worth 3/5 of a vote and the amendment institution prohibition.

The 2nd doesn't allow, cause, or protect harm. It protects citizens rights to defend themselves with firearms. That a few lunatics use them in crimes doesn't mean that the millions of law abiding citizens should lose their rights.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
Who cares what the Founders' intent was? If the second amendment no longer protects more than it allows harm, then it needs to go. Just like the parts about slaves being worth 3/5 of a vote and the amendment institution prohibition.

There's a clear and legal path for the opponents of the 2nd Amendment to take to change the Amendment. Why do they always try to use underhanded and illegal methods of changing the law?
 

poohbear

Platinum Member
Mar 11, 2003
2,284
5
81
Im not american, im in canada, and the idea that gun control is about controlling me is the most ridiculous statement i've ever heard. I feel free as a bird up here, never felt threatened at all by my government just like all the other western nations dont feel threatened at all. The USA is the only developed nation where people have this insane outlook & parania about need guns to rise up against their government. Have violent uprisings worked anywhere in the middle east? The peaceful ones were the successful ones most of the time. And besides in this day & age where our governments have tanks & jetfighters, what are ur small arms gonna do?

I DONT want anyone to have guns, i simply dont trust the avg person with owning a gun. Simple as that.
 

berzerker60

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2012
1,233
1
0
And what benefit would this have? Other than to destroy the gun industry, an industry which employs millions?

In most areas in the United States where such legislation has passed, strict gun control has no correlation with gun crime rate. What makes you think it will effect the rate at which mass shootings occur? Why should gun control policy be solely based upon the goal of reducing the number of mass shootings?

Have you, in your life, ever met a gun owner?

The comparison to slavery is inane. Slavery is a blatant violation of human rights. The right to own a firearm is not.

Boo hoo on the gun industry, just imagine the jobs we're losing by outlawing meth production, murder-for-hire, euthanasia, or a million other industries, and the millions more that can't survive once you remove child labor, have a minimum wage, etc. Everything in society is trade-offs.

Banning guns in Chicago doesn't work any more than banning cigarettes in Chicago would work, because there are no borders of any kind. I'm also not suggesting banning guns, the extremist straw man that gun lobbyists always jump to, I'm suggesting much more strictly regulating them. But if you look at COUNTRIES that have stricter gun laws than us - basically any first-world country - you also see much lower gun death stats. Maybe I'm wrong! Maybe a country-wide law wouldn't work and we'd have to repeal the changes, like we did with Prohibition. But it's worth trying to significantly tighten gun laws.

"What makes you think it will effect the rate at which mass shootings occur?" Well, the US has vastly more mass shootings than any other country per capita (or in absolute terms). Are we really just that much more murderous of a people?

Of course I've met gun owners, including my parents and probably myself if I move back to an area where hunting is a viable hobby. Have you ever lived in a country with tight gun control? Walking around the cities feels immensely safer, because even if I get mugged, I'm only really at risk for some bruises and a lost wallet, not my life. The day-to-day peace of mind walking around London or Paris at night is much greater than SF, DC, NYC, etc. That means more freedom because you're able to go about your day in greater safety, go out at nights more, don't (in the gun owner fantasies of self-defense via gun) have to spent hundreds on a lethal weapon to protect myself, don't have to worry about my kids' safety at school.

The 2nd doesn't allow, cause, or protect harm. It protects citizens rights to defend themselves with firearms. That a few lunatics use them in crimes doesn't mean that the millions of law abiding citizens should lose their rights.
Of course having widespread guns allows augmented harm beyond the harm that would occur without guns. Don't get me wrong, guns aren't the root of our problem, but addressing the poverty at the root of most gun violence is a lot more difficult (though I'd absolutely be for serious efforts to address it). We could live with tighter gun control without stripping away all rights, though, and that slide along the spectrum of options available to us as a society seem to me far more advantageous. People love to think in absolute terms, but "slippery slope" is a logical fallacy for a reason. Wanting people to generally be vaccinated doesn't mean I want to force-vaccinate those with serious religious objections. Wanting fewer, less destructive guns in America isn't asking for SWAT raids into the homes of every gunowner.

 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,211
597
126
I did not read the OP (sorry, not worth my time) and simply respond to the title, "Gun Control is not about guns. It's about control," because this is either an oxymoron or a sentence that ate the rule of law.

"Laws against public nudity isn't about nudity. It's about controlling when and where you take off your clothing."
"Laws against speeding isn't about speeding. It's about controlling how you drive"

Need I go on?
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
Im not american, im in canada, and the idea that gun control is about controlling me is the most ridiculous statement i've ever heard. I feel free as a bird up here, never felt threatened at all by my government just like all the other western nations dont feel threatened at all. The USA is the only developed nation where people have this insane outlook & parania about need guns to rise up against their government. Have violent uprisings worked anywhere in the middle east? The peaceful ones were the successful ones most of the time. And besides in this day & age where our governments have tanks & jetfighters, what are ur small arms gonna do?

I DONT want anyone to have guns, i simply dont trust the avg person with owning a gun. Simple as that.

Did you thank Harper for removing the long gun registry?
 

berzerker60

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2012
1,233
1
0
There's a clear and legal path for the opponents of the 2nd Amendment to take to change the Amendment. Why do they always try to use underhanded and illegal methods of changing the law?

A fair point, but on the other hand, the 2nd amendment is about well-regulated militias, not hunting and shooting ranges. It's all this "Founder's intent" nonsense that we stretch out to every possible issue that gives that right, and that gives the right to abortion, privacy, and a bunch of other hot-button issues. We should really be addressing all of these by the legislative process. It's perfectly viable to argue that we should be more narrowly interpreting the 2nd amendment to better meet today's America, since there's no "one true" reading of the lines.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
A fair point, but on the other hand, the 2nd amendment is about well-regulated militias, not hunting and shooting ranges. It's all this "Founder's intent" nonsense that we stretch out to every possible issue that gives that right, and that gives the right to abortion, privacy, and a bunch of other hot-button issues. We should really be addressing all of these by the legislative process. It's perfectly viable to argue that we should be more narrowly interpreting the 2nd amendment to better meet today's America, since there's no "one true" reading of the lines.

In other words the opponents of the 2nd Amendment don't think they can do it legally, so they'll lie, cheat and steal to get their goal accomplished. Thanks.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |