Gun Nuts Vehemently in favor of allowing abusive men to keep their guns

[cybrsage]

Call police, "so and so said he'd run me over". OK we'll take his car and license indefinitely. Sorry guys, protection order doesn't mean that someone broke the law and should lose their rights.

Yep, or Call police, "so and so said he was going to kill me". OK, we'll remove his right to free speech indefinitely.

Watch how fast liberals would change their stance on the second amendment if any restriction placed on it was also placed on the freedom of speech portion of the first.

You cannot speak freely unless you buy a license to do so AND can pass a background check to ensure you are not a criminal and you have no background of mental illness. We all know words are more dangerous than guns - thoughts expressed aloud and extremely powerful - so we must regulate who is allowed to use them. If someone accuses you of abusing free speech, you lose it forever.

So libs - what do you think about putting the limitations of the second amendment onto the first?

 

[TallBill]

Something like 90 percent of murders are done by convicted felons. Laws don't keep them disarmed. This guy wasn't convicted of anything.

The real moral of the story is that if you're in fear of your life, having a firearm and knowing how to use it is the only thing that will save you.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Something like 90 percent of murders are done by convicted felons. Laws don't keep them disarmed. This guy wasn't convicted of anything.

The real moral of the story is that if you're in fear of your life, having a firearm and knowing how to use it is the only thing that will save you.

I think it's closer to 75%, but yeah - the number is really high.

 

[Agent11]

Yet we can't execute anyone because of rabid bleeding heart morons... Except for in Texas of course Society is pretty screwed up in the US atm.

 

[irishScott]

Yet we can't execute anyone because of rabid bleeding heart morons... Except for in Texas of course Society is pretty screwed up in the US atm.

I wouldn't even mind giving up on the death penalty, just abolish parole. The idea of sending someone to jail is to remove them from society for a set period, not to let them back into it halfway through.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Yet we can't execute anyone because of rabid bleeding heart morons... Except for in Texas of course Society is pretty screwed up in the US atm.

It really isn't. Crime is way down, but you believe this^ because of the agenda being pushed on you by the people in control. People are generally nice and helpful out on the street and most of the gun violence that happens in this country is due to the Drug War that our government pushes so they have a reason to spend billions militarizing our police forces. It is no different than the Prohibition Era when Caucasian gangsters roamed the streets with Tommy Guns.

Does it matter that this guy was able to get a gun? Not really, he could have just as easily killed her with a knife or some other tool. I don't own a gun but even I realize that if you take away guns from quality citizens then the only people that will have them will be the criminals. And they will have no problem finding them when 300 million of them suddenly hit the black market after a gun ban.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Ben Franklin

Those words have never rung truer in this country than they have the past decade+.

 

[Spungo]

Welcome to my home state (edit for clarity: this happened in WA, same state I'm in): No, he cannot use the gun show loophole. It doesn't exist in WA. In WA, you must be a member of the state endorsed gun club to buy a gun at the show; membership requires you either:.

There are still some other loopholes. I found this little beauty after 5 seconds of googling:
THE EVIL INTRATEC AB-10 9MM!

Price:$550.00
Seller: Private Party Listings by this user
Listed On:Tuesday, March 19, 2013
Listed In:Handguns
Location: Grahm,off meridian, Seattle, Washington - Map
Manufacturer: Intratec
Caliber: 9mm Luger
Action: Striker Fire
Firearm Type: Pistol

This here is a intratec ab10 in 9mm comes with one 32 round mag in box overall great shape bore is in good shape with good rifling, did a little buffing on the slot where the charging handle rides for smoother cycleing. Fun gun, great for pissing off those liberal nutbags!

:awe:
Also great for shooting your ex wife since that guy probably isn't doing background checks.

 

[Agent11]

State laws vary.

 

[Leymenaide]

I hear this phrase all the time - in PA, gun shows have to do a background check prior to selling a gun at the show. There IS no gun show loophole here.

Ask a gun dealer:

The State system fails most Saturdays.

 

[Texashiker]

Good job, guys. Way to be serious about responsible gun ownership.

I hope you are trolling.

How can you make a comment like that and not be trolling?

 

[KB]

I think instead of taking his guns for a restrianing order, they should let the lady have some free training and let her borrow a gun.

Had they taken his guns away he would have threatened her with a knife, a bat or his car. No restraining order would have removed his hatred for her. In a perfect world he would have been committed to an anger management program to rehabilitate, but I imagine most people would agree we shouldn't make a simple form be enough to commit someone.

 

[Mursilis]

Ask a gun dealer:

The State system fails most Saturdays.

So what happens then? Does the sale still go through if the check can't be performed that day?

 

[Matt1970]

Would temporary confiscation of guns in the event of a domestic restraining order...really give you any problems? Really? You're law abiding, right? You treat your wife right, would never raise a hand, amirite?

Because an angry wife can get a restraining order with just a statement and no evidence. What constitutional right do you feel is ok to lose just because someone makes a statement?

 

[Midwayman]

The vast vast majority of gun owners manage to own firearms without any criminal activity. The ones that you do read about typically are mentally ill and would find some way to hurt people one way or another. Its easier to demonized the tool rather than the root cause. You can attempt to control the tool relatively easily. Trying to proactively identify the mentally ill and get them help without stepping on all sorts of civil liberties is a daunting proposition.

 

[KB]

So what happens then? Does the sale still go through if the check can't be performed that day?

I have no idea what Leymenaide is talking about. In many states, a regulated firearm requires a waiting period of 7 days to one month. During this time the background check is done. For unregulated firarms like muskets and bolt action rifles, I have purchased these guns on a Saturday and the dealers can still get a hold of NICS (FBI) and do an instant background check. They would be breaking the law if they were unable to reach NICS by phone but still sold the firearm.

 

[werepossum]

Eh... I dunno, micrometers.

The story is very tragic, however I just don't tend to buy into these "save me from the bad people, mamma government" mentalities.

It's very easy to say "stop letting the mentally ill have guns!!!!!!" it sounds simple, and logical right? But there are all sorts of reasons a person might see a psychologist, depression etc... and the vast majority of these people who some might classify as "mentally ill" (even people with more severe things than depression) will never harm anyone...

It's also very easy to say "don't let abusive men have gunzzz!!!1111!!!!" but there are a LOT of bullshit domestic violence claims, there are a lot of institutional and societal double standards about domestic violence and how it's treated when it's done by women to men vs. the other way around... etc. There are a lot of cases where people use accusations as a way to get the upper hand in a divorce, etc. There are also a lot of people who are classified as domestic violence offenders, who in any reasonable world shouldn't be...

So, rather than constantly looking for ways to take away peoples' rights so that we can all feel safe (and still not be safe anyway) I'd rather just accept that shit happens, if it's all the same to everyone else. I think that's the more realistic approach.

Now, in this particular case? If the guy really pointed a loaded gun at her... yea, I'd endorse taking his gun away. Then again, had the process of the law proving that had happened played out? Is her just saying it happened sufficient? Sufficient to instantly remove a constitutional right from him?

Again, I think you just have to accept that there are bad people, and they'll do bad things... and you can rarely stop them. If someone decides they're going out of this world, and they don't have the good grace to not do some harm on their way out... they're going to do it, unfortunately.

Regardless, it's really tragic what happened to this poor woman.

I agree with Chris A, this is a very good post.

 

[Mursilis]

I have no idea what Leymenaide is talking about. In many states, a regulated firearm requires a waiting period of 7 days to one month. During this time the background check is done. For unregulated firarms like muskets and bolt action rifles, I have purchased these guns on a Saturday and the dealers can still get a hold of NICS (FBI) and do an instant background check. They would be breaking the law if they were unable to reach NICS by phone but still sold the firearm.

That was my understanding as well. My state has no waiting period because they have instant background checks, but I've never known of a dealer who would still proceed with the sale if the background check could not be accomplished for whatever reason.

 

[highland145]

Good job micro, the guy broke the law, got an illegal gun and killed his wife. Maybe if she hadn't trusted in a bullshit protective order and carried her own gun she could have stopped him.

This. Not sure why there is still a discussion.

 

[piasabird]

Gun ownership is a right. Anyone that denies the ability of citizens to own guns is a criminal that is violating the constitution. I dont think the police are there to protect me. All the police do is chase down criminals after the criminals have done something wrong.

 

[Texashiker]

Gun ownership is a right.

Liberals do not understand the difference between a right and a privilege.

Should we blame the bible for Waco?

Should we blame the tax code for the Oklahoma bombing?

 

[exdeath]

Can't ban guns, so ban certain types of people from having guns. Then just brand everybody one of those types of people! Brilliant!

No. We see right through that progressive bullshit.

 

[sm625]

Yeah because we all know that 98% of wife beaters beat their wives with the butt of their guns before shooting them. And if all the guns were gone, there would surely be 0 (zero) yes zero incidences of spousal abuse. You heard that right. I am a proud consumer of corporate fascist bullshit, and I have now learned that guns are responsible for spousal abuse too!

 

[cybrsage]

Ask a gun dealer:

The State system fails most Saturdays.

The most recent outage was due to a failed 6509e at the PSP headquarters...then Cisco shipped a 6509 (non-e) chassis as a replacement...Yeah, was a bad weekend.

However, they cannot sell the gun while the system is down, so everyone is still safe.

 

[cybrsage]

So what happens then? Does the sale still go through if the check can't be performed that day?

I have no idea what Leymenaide is talking about. In many states, a regulated firearm requires a waiting period of 7 days to one month. During this time the background check is done. For unregulated firarms like muskets and bolt action rifles, I have purchased these guns on a Saturday and the dealers can still get a hold of NICS (FBI) and do an instant background check. They would be breaking the law if they were unable to reach NICS by phone but still sold the firearm.

That was my understanding as well. My state has no waiting period because they have instant background checks, but I've never known of a dealer who would still proceed with the sale if the background check could not be accomplished for whatever reason.

When the instant check system is down the sale is not allowed. That is why it is so vital to get it back working again when it does go down. PA clings to God and Guns, after all.

 

[RampantAndroid]

There are still some other loopholes. I found this little beauty after 5 seconds of googling:
THE EVIL INTRATEC AB-10 9MM!

:awe:
Also great for shooting your ex wife since that guy probably isn't doing background checks.

No, because in WA there is no background check for private sales. I'm actually fine if they decide to force private sales through FFLs, and that is the only addition to gun sales I'd take (beyond also making rifle sales take the same amount of scrutiny as handgun sales, meaning the 10 business day waiting period or proof of CPL needed to walk out same day.)

But you cannot keep talking about this bloody mythical gun show loophole. If you want to actually do your homework when bitching about guns, fine. But people need to quit harping on shit that isn't a problem. Rifles account for 3% of gun crime, yet we focus on them. The Aurora shooter had his rifle jam in 20 shots or less and switched to a glock. Huh. Gun show loopholes are closed in MANY states. Regardless, private sales WITHIN THE STATE are NOT something the federal government CAN or SHOULD regulate - that's a state affair. (If you, a non-WA resident buy a gun and have it shipped to you, it must be sent to an FFL in your state that then does the background checks for the state. OR you can fly with it, checked luggage, in a locked container unloaded and declared.)