Gun Nuts Vehemently in favor of allowing abusive men to keep their guns

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OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
Liberals commonly use shame as a tactic to imply that anyone with a gun also supports domestic abuse/mass murder/murder in general/gun accidents/wild west style guns-everywhere etc..

Its a logical fallacy that liberals commonly employ.

It just makes you look dumb. Nice Try.
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,372
0
76
I think instead of taking his guns for a restrianing order, they should let the lady have some free training and let her borrow a gun.

Had they taken his guns away he would have threatened her with a knife, a bat or his car. No restraining order would have removed his hatred for her. In a perfect world he would have been committed to an anger management program to rehabilitate, but I imagine most people would agree we shouldn't make a simple form be enough to commit someone.

Bad idea. What makes her qualified to own a gun? The fact that she feels she needs a restraining order, which is handed out without evidence as was already mentioned? She could be using the restraining order simply to gain the upper hand in a divorce and custody dispute, and many women do exactly just that.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,044
62
91
We all have the right to arm ourselves in self defense. People trying to disarm and scare people to save lives are oddly enough hurting people.
 
Last edited:

velillen

Platinum Member
Jul 12, 2006
2,120
1
81
No, because in WA there is no background check for private sales. I'm actually fine if they decide to force private sales through FFLs, and that is the only addition to gun sales I'd take (beyond also making rifle sales take the same amount of scrutiny as handgun sales, meaning the 10 business day waiting period or proof of CPL needed to walk out same day.)

And then they start taxing or jacking up the prices for the FFL to process the paperwork. Leading to more paperwork and crap. Also would eventually lead to some sort of tax on the price of the gun you paid. Just way to easy for a state to exploit it. Remember our $30 car tabs?

I have and will continue selling guns privately. Its 100% legal (as Rampart knows ) However i do require the person has a CPL and i only sell on a local forum where ive talked to many of the guys before and have seen their trader history ratings.



And as stated, stop going for straight up bans and myself and many other pro gun guys would GLADLY work with anti-gun people to solve the real issues. Hell i'd love to try to work out a system to better track those who shouldnt be allowed to buy guns (mentally ill)
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
And then they start taxing or jacking up the prices for the FFL to process the paperwork. Leading to more paperwork and crap. Also would eventually lead to some sort of tax on the price of the gun you paid. Just way to easy for a state to exploit it. Remember our $30 car tabs?

I have and will continue selling guns privately. Its 100% legal (as Rampart knows ) However i do require the person has a CPL and i only sell on a local forum where ive talked to many of the guys before and have seen their trader history ratings.



And as stated, stop going for straight up bans and myself and many other pro gun guys would GLADLY work with anti-gun people to solve the real issues. Hell i'd love to try to work out a system to better track those who shouldnt be allowed to buy guns (mentally ill)

$30? I paid $120 this year to renew my 2010 TSX which didn't need an emissions test. I'd GLADLY pay $30. I was just talking about this with a friend before reading your reply and there stated straight up that a limit on the cost of the transfer would be capped by the state government. I agree it's a way to get control that would be very bad, but the concept is what I'm saying I'm not opposed to. There are ways to be reasonable with private sales, like requiring a CPL (a practice I know many do follow) - and I think friends when doing private sales make sure that they don't go alone, that they go with other people who are armed and are carrying.

There's a good conversation to be had here when both sides approach the table ready to have a reasonable discussion and not just this "if you're pro gun you approve of murder!" type crap that keeps getting posted. At the same time, the people making youtube videos about how they'll kill anyone trying to take their guns...don't help matters either.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
$30? I paid $120 this year to renew my 2010 TSX which didn't need an emissions test. I'd GLADLY pay $30. I was just talking about this with a friend before reading your reply and there stated straight up that a limit on the cost of the transfer would be capped by the state government. I agree it's a way to get control that would be very bad, but the concept is what I'm saying I'm not opposed to. There are ways to be reasonable with private sales, like requiring a CPL (a practice I know many do follow) - and I think friends when doing private sales make sure that they don't go alone, that they go with other people who are armed and are carrying.

There's a good conversation to be had here when both sides approach the table ready to have a reasonable discussion and not just this "if you're pro gun you approve of murder!" type crap that keeps getting posted. At the same time, the people making youtube videos about how they'll kill anyone trying to take their guns...don't help matters either.

Your 2010 TSX isn't a constitutionally protected right, unlike a firearm.

Buying a handgun in calif.
Steps

Your Personal Right to Bear Firearms

According to the second amendment of the United States Constitution, it is your right as a citizen to keep and bear arms. But there are rules and qualifications to keep in mind. Are you the right age, for example? Do you have a criminal record? Are you mentally stable? Are you legally an American citizen (or a foreign national)?

1
Make sure you're the right age. To buy a rifle or a shotgun (excluding assault rifles banned under state law) you must be 18. To buy a handgun you must be 21.
2
If you're a convicted felon, stop here. Federal law 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1) states it is illegal for felons to own firearms.
3
Similarly, if you've ever been committed to a mental institution, you'll have a difficult time passing your background checks. And regardless of the background check, it may not be a good idea to own a firearm if you know you are mentally unstable, suicidal, or are taking drugs for any mental illness.
4
As an American citizen, you can purchase firearms. If you are not a citizen, some visas may allow you to purchase firearms, but normally you are not able to.


Start the Application Process

1
Submit an optional Personal Firearms Eligibility Check (PFEC) application along with a copy of your California Driver’s License or ID Card and a check or money order for $20. Get the application notarized and include an impression of your right thumbprint. If you're not a U.S. citizen, you'll also need to include an Alien Registration or I-94 Card. You should get the results back within 30 days, but it can take up to 120. This process is separate from the background check and 10-day waiting period described in later steps.[1] This is to determine if you can legally possess and purchase firearms. Submitting this form is a good idea if you're unsure of your qualification to own a firearm, but it is not required before buying a firearm.

Take the Handgun Safety Test

1
Go to your local gun shop (Federal Firearms Licensed dealer) and request to take the 30-question handgun safety test. It will cost some money, but it's a requirement if you want to purchase a handgun. When you pass, you will receive a certificate. If you fail the test, you can take it again. Just remember that you can only take it twice. It costs $25.00 ($19.00 dealer's record of sale (DROS) fee, $5.00 in safety enforcement fees due to gun lock law). It should be noted that there are a number of exemptions to this requirement. These include specific law enforcement affiliations and current or prior military service.

Decide on What Type of Firearm You Want to Buy

1
Look around, ask around, and find the firearm you wish to purchase. Most gun shops will allow you to touch and hold the firearms before you purchase them. Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 are both great firearms for home defense.
Pistols (handguns) are great for self-defense and concealed carry (requires a state license). On the other hand, they require a lot of practice and dexterity to become proficient. They aren't good for hunting (if you are hunting something larger than rabbits). Pistol effectiveness drops drastically after 20-30 yards, but can be used in well-trained hands at 100 yards; it is the only firearm which can still be very effective at touching distances.
Rifles can fill in many different needs. Hunting (any size game) target shooting (with a scope: up to 1,000 yards). Bolt action rifles can be cheap, yet very accurate. Semi-automatic rifles can be good for target and home defense use. Automatic rifles cannot be purchased in California without special licenses.
Shotguns are arguably the most versatile weapon. The firearm can shoot solid shots (like bullets, known as slugs), as well as bird shot (for birds and rodents). It can also be loaded with the powerful and well known 00 buck (double-aught buck) which, as its name suggests, is good for hunting larger game, but is also extremely well-suited for home- or self-defense. Shotguns can be cheap, and most are very expandable and customizable. Effective range with buckshot (depending on the barrel) can be up to 100-yards, but with slugs (and a proper setup), shotguns are effective out to 300 or more yards.
For more information, read Choose a Firearm for Personal or Home Defense.
2
Notify the cashier. The cashier will need valid photo ID. You will pay for the gun at this time (some gun stores will allow you put the gun on layaway or may only require you to pay part of the cost of the gun before you pick it up). You will be required to sign some papers (ATF Form 4473, DROS), which will need to be filled out with place of residency and other information. It will also require your right thumb print. The fee for this is $25.
In California, you are only allowed to purchase one handgun within a 30-day period.

The 10-Day Waiting Process

1
Wait 10 days (240 hours to the minute on DROS form.) This is the worst part of the experience. During this time your DROS information is being sent to the CA DMV, CA DOJ, and then on to the FBI NICS. At any time through the 10 days you can be denied. Sometimes it will take a full 9 days for a denial. After 10 day wait you'll come in to pick up firearm and sign 4473 form again.
Now is a good time to purchase a California-approved firearms safe (or locking device). Safes are a good way to be able to store your firearms, and store them safely, where they won't get stolen or others (children, friends, etc.) won't have access. As required by law in California you must either own a California-approved gun safe or purchase a new gun lock for each firearm purchased. Proof is required for each.
Proof of ownership of a gun safe requires either an owners manual or a receipt of purchase. Proof of Lock ownership requires a receipt of lock within 30 days of actual pick up date (not date of sale). Most American gun dealers will already include a free original equipment manufacturer (OEM) gun lock that will satisfy this requirement (not all of the free locks are California legal, see your local dealer for more information or visit the California's Department of Justice website for a complete list of approved locks).
Before your 10 days are up, make sure you have the rest of the money for the firearm (if you haven't already paid for it in full). If you have purchased a pistol, you will need your handgun safety certificate and proof of residency (this can be a recent water or electric bill or even valid vehicle registration).

2
Go pick up your firearm. If you successfully pass the background check, you can now return to the retail outlet and purchase your gun.

You will sign some papers, saying you are now in possession of the firearm. You will be required to have (or purchase) a California-approved locking device or prove you own a safe (or sign an affidavit saying you own a safe, but do not have proof). Laws in California are much more lenient on long guns than on handguns.
If it is a handgun, the earlier mentioned items will be required (safety certificate and proof of residency). They will also have you show you can handle the handgun safely by having you lock back the slide and releasing it. Load a dummy round into the magazine, and loading the gun with it. Ejecting the magazine and a question will be asked, "is the gun still loaded?". Ejecting the round, all while maintaining muzzle control, pointing the muzzle in a safe direction, and keeping your finger off the trigger. The handgun must also be sold with a slide, action, or trigger lock. Most handgun manufacturers ship the pistol with one of the above, but you may be required to purchase one.

Gosh, sorry your smog certificate was so much trouble.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
Your 2010 TSX isn't a constitutionally protected right, unlike a firearm.

Buying a handgun in calif.


Gosh, sorry your smog certificate was so much trouble.

....

Wow, way to take a single part of my post and focus on it, when it was a simple off topic point made by the previous poster (a valid point, no less.)

......
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
....

Wow, way to take a single part of my post and focus on it, when it was a simple off topic point made by the previous poster (a valid point, no less.)

......

Sorry, it's just a sore point about the hoops we have to jump though. My apologies.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
Sorry, it's just a sore point about the hoops we have to jump though. My apologies.

Believe me, I agree on states like CA. But in my state (WA) the hoops...are none really. If you don't want to wait, get a CPL. I'm totally fine with ALL purchases requiring a check as long as the ATF doesn't get the serial number.

Pro tip: if the shop does the ATF clearance over the phone, they don't get the serial. If they do it on a computer, they get the serial.
 
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