Gun Statistics

Mr. Lennon

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
3,492
1
81
- A study sponsored by the Center for Disease Control compared gun owners and non owners of the same gender, race, age, and neighborhood. Those who kept a gun in the home (often for protection) were 2.7 times as likely to be murdered-nearly always by a family member or a close member acquaintance (Kellerman, 1993, 1997).

- Another study found that the risk of suicide in homes with guns was 5 times as high as in homes without them (Tuabes, 1992).

- Compared with others of the same gender, age, and race, people with guns at home were 41 percent as likely to be homicide victims and 3.4 times as likely to die of suicide (Wiebe, 2003).

Countries that ban handguns have lower murder rates. Compared with the United States, Britain has one-fourth as many people and one-sixteenth as many murders. The United States has 10,000 handgun homicides a year; Australia has about a dozen, Britain two dozen, and Canada 100. When Washington, D.C., adopted a law restricting handgun possession, the numbers of gun-related murders and suicides each abruptly dropped about 25 percent. No changes occurred in other methods of murder and suicide, nor did adjacent areas outside the reach of this law experience any other such declines (Loftin & others, 1991).

According to Milgram's obedience studies, remoteness from the victim facilitates cruelty. A Knife can kill someone, but a knife attack requires a great deal more personal contact than pulling a trigger from a distance.

............................................................

I am a strong supporter of the constitution, which of course includes supporting the 2nd amendment. The more I research the effect that guns have on our society, the more I'm starting to see this amendment as old and outdated. Back when our constitution was drafted, those people weren't exposed to all the violence we receive on a daily basis from the media today. People back then were generally more mature and respected their firearms. They also didn't have access to weapons that could mow down 40 people in one clip. The fact that a gangster who flunked out of high school can just as easily acquire a weapon from Walmart as I can because of the 2nd amendment is just scary. As shown in the statistics above, I really don't think most of our violence hungry society holds the maturity/responsibility needed to own a firearm anymore.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
That's nice.

* New Jersey adopted what sponsors described as "the most stringent gun law" in the nation in 1966; two years later, the murder rate was up 46% and the reported robbery rate had nearly doubled.
* In 1968, Hawaii imposed a series of increasingly harsh measures, and its murder rate tripled from a low of 2.4 per 100,000 in 1968 to 7.2 by 1977.
* In 1976, Washington, D.C., enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Since then, the city's murder rate has risen 134% while the national murder rate has dropped 2%.

Game. Set. Match.
 

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
yaaa, lets ban guns... the only fucking thing i would never ever ever ever ever ever ever support...
 

Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
11,757
0
71
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
That's nice.

* New Jersey adopted what sponsors described as "the most stringent gun law" in the nation in 1966; two years later, the murder rate was up 46% and the reported robbery rate had nearly doubled.
* In 1968, Hawaii imposed a series of increasingly harsh measures, and its murder rate tripled from a low of 2.4 per 100,000 in 1968 to 7.2 by 1977.
* In 1976, Washington, D.C., enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Since then, the city's murder rate has risen 134% while the national murder rate has dropped 2%.

Game. Set. Match.

The OP cited his sources. Can you please do the same?
 

Mr. Lennon

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
3,492
1
81
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
yaaa, lets ban guns... the only fucking thing i would never ever ever ever ever ever ever support...

I'm not saying that we should ever ban them. I would highly support a more rigorous screening process though. It is currently way to easy for idiots to buy guns.
 

babylon5

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2000
1,363
1
0
Every nation has its own methods of population reduction, whether the citizens want it or not. Africa/India got diseases, Middle East got wars, and we got gun violence.

 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
That's nice.

* New Jersey adopted what sponsors described as "the most stringent gun law" in the nation in 1966; two years later, the murder rate was up 46% and the reported robbery rate had nearly doubled.
* In 1968, Hawaii imposed a series of increasingly harsh measures, and its murder rate tripled from a low of 2.4 per 100,000 in 1968 to 7.2 by 1977.
* In 1976, Washington, D.C., enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Since then, the city's murder rate has risen 134% while the national murder rate has dropped 2%.

Game. Set. Match.

The OP cited his sources. Can you please do the same?

National Center for Policy Analysis
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
That's nice.

* New Jersey adopted what sponsors described as "the most stringent gun law" in the nation in 1966; two years later, the murder rate was up 46% and the reported robbery rate had nearly doubled.
* In 1968, Hawaii imposed a series of increasingly harsh measures, and its murder rate tripled from a low of 2.4 per 100,000 in 1968 to 7.2 by 1977.
* In 1976, Washington, D.C., enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Since then, the city's murder rate has risen 134% while the national murder rate has dropped 2%.

Game. Set. Match.

The OP cited his sources. Can you please do the same?

It would have been easy for him to cite the NRA or Wayne LaPierre.
 

Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
11,757
0
71
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
That's nice.

* New Jersey adopted what sponsors described as "the most stringent gun law" in the nation in 1966; two years later, the murder rate was up 46% and the reported robbery rate had nearly doubled.
* In 1968, Hawaii imposed a series of increasingly harsh measures, and its murder rate tripled from a low of 2.4 per 100,000 in 1968 to 7.2 by 1977.
* In 1976, Washington, D.C., enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Since then, the city's murder rate has risen 134% while the national murder rate has dropped 2%.

Game. Set. Match.

The OP cited his sources. Can you please do the same?

National Center for Policy Analysis


Reading through that briefly (very briefly) that appears to be a secondary source. Furthermore it appears to be written as a persuasive speech than a research study. Maybe someone else here can actually go through the entire paper and comment as to the validity of this paper. Someone unbiased hopefully.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
That's nice.

* New Jersey adopted what sponsors described as "the most stringent gun law" in the nation in 1966; two years later, the murder rate was up 46% and the reported robbery rate had nearly doubled.
* In 1968, Hawaii imposed a series of increasingly harsh measures, and its murder rate tripled from a low of 2.4 per 100,000 in 1968 to 7.2 by 1977.
* In 1976, Washington, D.C., enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Since then, the city's murder rate has risen 134% while the national murder rate has dropped 2%.

Game. Set. Match.

The OP cited his sources. Can you please do the same?

National Center for Policy Analysis


Reading through that briefly (very briefly) that appears to be a secondary source. Furthermore it appears to be written as a persuasive speech than a research study. Maybe someone else here can actually go through the entire paper and comment as to the validity of this paper. Someone unbiased hopefully.

These are just numbers we're citing people, jeez.
You thickheads will never be convinced; this is your religion.
The paper cites the FBI among many sources which can be found at the bottom of the PDF.

You've got to come up with a better attack than "it sounds like it's written persuasively", that's too subjective. You need to disprove the facts.
 

Mr. Lennon

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
3,492
1
81
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
That's nice.

* New Jersey adopted what sponsors described as "the most stringent gun law" in the nation in 1966; two years later, the murder rate was up 46% and the reported robbery rate had nearly doubled.
* In 1968, Hawaii imposed a series of increasingly harsh measures, and its murder rate tripled from a low of 2.4 per 100,000 in 1968 to 7.2 by 1977.
* In 1976, Washington, D.C., enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Since then, the city's murder rate has risen 134% while the national murder rate has dropped 2%.

Game. Set. Match.

The OP cited his sources. Can you please do the same?

National Center for Policy Analysis

I would hardly call a conservative think tank a credible source.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76

Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
11,757
0
71
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
That's nice.

* New Jersey adopted what sponsors described as "the most stringent gun law" in the nation in 1966; two years later, the murder rate was up 46% and the reported robbery rate had nearly doubled.
* In 1968, Hawaii imposed a series of increasingly harsh measures, and its murder rate tripled from a low of 2.4 per 100,000 in 1968 to 7.2 by 1977.
* In 1976, Washington, D.C., enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Since then, the city's murder rate has risen 134% while the national murder rate has dropped 2%.

Game. Set. Match.

The OP cited his sources. Can you please do the same?

National Center for Policy Analysis


Reading through that briefly (very briefly) that appears to be a secondary source. Furthermore it appears to be written as a persuasive speech than a research study. Maybe someone else here can actually go through the entire paper and comment as to the validity of this paper. Someone unbiased hopefully.

These are just numbers we're citing people, jeez.
You thickheads will never be convinced; this is your religion.


Bro, it has nothing to do with being thickheaded or having a religion. I'm honestly on the fence about this issue. I just think that if we are going to quote statistics we should make sure they are valid. If we don't, we will have everyone quoting stats that don't mean shit. I don't want to see that. So find a research paper with actual studies and post the studies, not some bullshit "Myth 1: Myth 2:" garbage. That's not a study, thats a persuasive speech.

Also...

Get off my jock,
 

masteryoda34

Golden Member
Dec 17, 2007
1,399
3
81
The second amendment was intended by the founders primarily to be used as a last resort against an oppressive government. The ability to defend oneself was really a secondary purpose for the amendment.

Also, If we ban / heavily restrict the sale of guns, it won't change criminals' desires to commit crimes. They will instead acquire them on the black market at an above normal price which transfers money into the hands of lawbreakers.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
I don't think guns are the problem, I think stupid Americans with guns are the problem. Canada has aboot the same per-capita gun ownernship rate and hardly anyone up there gets shot.

Nearly 22% of Canadian households had at least one firearm ... The firearm homicide rate was 1.15 per 100,000 in 1977 and dropped to 0.50 in 2003 while the non-firearm rate went from 1.85 per 100,000 to 1.23 per 100,000 in the same time period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...nd_accidents_in_Canada

About 25% of the adults in the United States personally own a gun. In 2005, 75% of the 10,100 homicides committed using firearms in the United States were committed using handguns, compared to 4% with rifles, 5% with shotguns, and the rest with a type of firearm not specified.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...e_in_the_United_States

Compare/contrast.
 

Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
11,757
0
71
So make it more difficult to own a gun Dealmonkey? If the people are the problems, we need to restrict those irresponsible people.
 

Mr. Lennon

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
3,492
1
81
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
So make it more difficult to own a gun Dealmonkey? If the people are the problems, we need to restrict those irresponsible people.

Pretty much the reason for my OP. It is currently way to easy for idiots to purchase firearms (which happens to be the majority of gun owners).
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,512
21
81
Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
- A study sponsored by the Center for Disease Control compared gun owners and non owners of the same gender, race, age, and neighborhood. Those who kept a gun in the home (often for protection) were 2.7 times as likely to be murdered-nearly always by a family member or a close member acquaintance (Kellerman, 1993, 1997).

These numbers include: Suicides. Domestic violence. Drug dealings (dealers were considered "close acquaintances" in this study).

If you remove the people who were engaging in illegal activity and the suicides then the statistics pull even.

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
- Another study found that the risk of suicide in homes with guns was 5 times as high as in homes without them (Tuabes, 1992).

And many people who wish to commit suicide buy a firearm for the express purpose of committing suicide which would inflate this statistic greatly. People who want to commit suicide buy guns, not the other way around. This statistic confuses correlation with causation.

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
- Compared with others of the same gender, age, and race, people with guns at home were 41 percent as likely to be homicide victims and 3.4 times as likely to die of suicide (Wiebe, 2003).

See my rebuttal to the first and second statistics. This just combines the two sets of errors.

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
Countries that ban handguns have lower murder rates. Compared with the United States, Britain has one-fourth as many people and one-sixteenth as many murders. The United States has 10,000 handgun homicides a year; Australia has about a dozen, Britain two dozen, and Canada 100. When Washington, D.C., adopted a law restricting handgun possession, the numbers of gun-related murders and suicides each abruptly dropped about 25 percent. No changes occurred in other methods of murder and suicide, nor did adjacent areas outside the reach of this law experience any other such declines (Loftin & others, 1991).

Britain and Australia have always has lower murder rates than the US. In fact, compared to the United State, the murder rate in Britain has remained steady since about 1919. (Gary Kleck, ?Targetting Guns?, 1997 at 359) In 1919, Britain had no gun control laws at all. It's quite clear that Britain's lower murder rate is not due to gun control, but is due to other societal and cultural factors.

As far as DC, while the rate of firearms murders declined after the ban, the overall murder rate went UP, increasing by more than 130% between 1976 and 1996. The overall murder rate throughout the rest of the country dropped by 2% over the same time period. (Dr. Gary Kleck, University of Florida using FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1997) Murder is still murder regardless of the implement used and it's clear that gun control in DC did nothing to curtail murders, all it did was change the type of implements used.

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
According to Milgram's obedience studies, remoteness from the victim facilitates cruelty. A Knife can kill someone, but a knife attack requires a great deal more personal contact than pulling a trigger from a distance.

What proof do you have that most firearms crimes are committed at a distance? More than 80% of attacks occur within 20 feet or less regardless of whether or not a firearm is used. (Gordon Clemmer, 20 year law enforcement veteran and master instructor and the perishable skills coordinator for the San Bernardino County Sheriff?s Department / Advanced Officer Training Division) The idea that people are usually shot from great distances is simply false.

ZV
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
So make it more difficult to own a gun Dealmonkey? If the people are the problems, we need to restrict those irresponsible people.
I don't get paid to solve the world's problems, but I'd suggest you consider that it would be difficult to restrict ownership until AFTER a problem occurs. I mean, BEFORE-hand, it's hard to know if someone is an idiot who will end up shooting someone. Right?
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
So make it more difficult to own a gun Dealmonkey? If the people are the problems, we need to restrict those irresponsible people.

Pretty much the reason for my OP. It is currently way to easy for idiots to purchase firearms (which happens to be the majority of gun owners).

More likely than not, your true concern is about inner city minorities and gang violence, not rural sportsmen. But of course you can't admit that, because it wouldn't be politically correct.

 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,283
134
106
Sorry, but any statistics that are taken from the same neighborhood (especially this one), race, gender, ect are going to be fundamentally flawed in several ways.

1. The sampling size is going to be too small. End of story, you aren't going to get more then about 1000 people, and since they are all from the same area...
2. The data doesn't represent the population as a whole! This is data on that neighborhood, for that gender, for that race. NOT for the nation as a whole. If I sampled people in Idaho and found that 90% of them are mormon, would it be right to conclude that 90% of the people in the US are mormon?
3. Did I mention that a small isolated group doesn't represent a population as a whole?

Plus there is the fact that your forth bullet point is unclear if we are discussion gun related homicides, or just homicides. Well of course a country whose general population doesn't have guns will commit less gun crimes. However, I would like to see homicide stats in general. And even if they where lower, that would be like completely ignoring the fact that Britain has different law enforcement techniques, different social protections schemes, ect. By saying that a homicide ratio is heavily linked to population ownership of guns would be ignoring a very large amount of variables. (Heck, its even possible that the culture in Britain causes people to be more docile).

I need some solid gun stats before I can say one way or another. As it is, these stats are really to vague.

One other question. Why on earth is the center of disease control doing a statistical study on gun usage?
 
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