Gun Violence

[Vic]

Bullets are the cheapest part of a gun and the easiest to make. In fact, a large percentage of gun hobbyists make their own bullets. Plus, bullets are small and easy to conceal, and difficult to put a tax stamp on. If bullets ever cost $5k/ea, it would make for a very profitable black market.

 

[UnatcoAgent]

I do not believe for a second that promoting the concealment and posession of firearms by more of the general public will solve anything, I think that would just explode the problem because I know for ME I would end up shooting people left and right.

Seriously though, no way, more guns will not solve the violence when you're dealing with mostly wanna be thugs who like to think their macho lifestyle is invincible.

I suppose so far the only real solution is to solve the drug problem, which is incredibly prominent here. I've always been a fan of legalizing marijuana, not because I use it very occasionally, but because I believe it would both cut crime and provide a noticable tax source. But the harder drugs are still a major issue.

And yes for anyone confused, this is in Canada, we have a lot of crime here like our neighbours.

 

[dmcanally]

Originally posted by: Sabot
I do not believe for a second that promoting the concealment and posession of firearms by more of the general public will solve anything, I think that would just explode the problem because I know for ME I would end up shooting people left and right.

Seriously though, no way, more guns will not solve the violence when you're dealing with mostly wanna be thugs who like to think their macho lifestyle is invincible.

I suppose so far the only real solution is to solve the drug problem, which is incredibly prominent here. I've always been a fan of legalizing marijuana, not because I use it very occasionally, but because I believe it would both cut crime and provide a noticable tax source. But the harder drugs are still a major issue.

And yes for anyone confused, this is in Canada, we have a lot of crime here like our neighbours.

Just so you know, once a "wanna be thug" starts shooting, he/she isn't a wanna be anymore.

 

[azazyel]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Condor
Solve the drug problem, you solve most of the crime problems.

Huge. But the drug problem is just another symptom of the societal problem, which has proven all but intractable all these years. It is very, very sad, and frustrating, sub-cultures that all but guarantee failure and all.

Exactly, take away the gangs source of income.

 

[ajf3]

Originally posted by: MadRat
Allow more citizens to carry concealed weapons. That is a solution that has always quickly put down crime. People don't like the taste of vigilantiism when they find out its one of their own bad seeds from their family that dumbass just got blasted while they were half cocked on dope and did something stupid. Then again they don't like it when the cops do the same thing. Perhaps you should take a lesson that Tom Cruise movie which name escapes me at this moment.

Yep - just about every city that has started a concealed carry program over the last couple of decades has seen a reduction in violent crime.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
Arm the the civillians and send them to training classes.

Negative.

Actually, positive. Would you want to mug someone knowing that theres a good chance that they'll be armed?

This wasn't a Mugging. It was a shootout between 2 groups where innocent bystanders were caught in the crossfire. If civilians were armed, there'd be chaos(even more) where everyone would be shooting at whom they thought started it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
Arm the the civillians and send them to training classes.

Negative.

Actually, positive. Would you want to mug someone knowing that theres a good chance that they'll be armed?

This wasn't a Mugging. It was a shootout between 2 groups where innocent bystanders were caught in the crossfire. If civilians were armed, there'd be chaos(even more) where everyone would be shooting at whom they thought started it.

But the shooting WILL stop when everybody is dead, no?

 

[imported_Aelius]

They try to make this seem new. It's not. It's just happening in very public places now and it's just too hard to hide.

Where I live, and just about anywhere else I lived in Canada violent crime tends to end up on page 18 of a newspaper in a 1" X 2" section with very vague wording.

Recently women in my town marched down a busy street and blocked traffic for hours in the downtown core in a march against violence. Apparently virtually nobody in my town realized that at night women are regularly assaulted and raped. I myself was clueless and I keep in touch with the goings on through newspapers etc.

Another example: A woman was stalked for maybe 10 blocks until she reached a strip mall and when she ran from the lighted road to the 24hr supermarket (through dark parking lot) she was chassed down and stabbed several times. She crawled in a pool of her blood through the automatic doors and the night staff chased the perp away. This one didn't even make it into the newspaper because it was so horrific. I only found out about it because my old landlord's friend's friend worked at that 24hr supermarket.

Anyway I personally think Canada is probably just as bad as the US, or getting there, but it's just not publicized anywhere unless it's too hard to hide. While I don't think it's a conspiracy at all I sure as heck find this very odd how so much crime is swept under the rug.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Aelius
They try to make this seem new. It's not. It's just happening in very public places now and it's just too hard to hide.

Where I live, and just about anywhere else I lived in Canada violent crime tends to end up on page 18 of a newspaper in a 1" X 2" section with very vague wording.

Recently women in my town marched down a busy street and blocked traffic for hours in the downtown core in a march against violence. Apparently virtually nobody in my town realized that at night women are regularly assaulted and raped. I myself was clueless and I keep in touch with the goings on through newspapers etc.

Another example: A woman was stalked for maybe 10 blocks until she reached a strip mall and when she ran from the lighted road to the 24hr supermarket (through dark parking lot) she was chassed down and stabbed several times. She crawled in a pool of her blood through the automatic doors and the night staff chased the perp away. This one didn't even make it into the newspaper because it was so horrific. I only found out about it because my old landlord's friend's friend worked at that 24hr supermarket.

Anyway I personally think Canada is probably just as bad as the US, or getting there, but it's just not publicized anywhere unless it's too hard to hide. While I don't think it's a conspiracy at all I sure as heck find this very odd how so much crime is swept under the rug.

Crime happens everywhere all the time, there's no denying it and reporting all of it would take all the newspaper, News program, even 24 hour news channels would have little time for anything else. Only the bizzarre or otherwise unique crimes get reported on. The only way to get a clear picture of what's happeninng is to look at the statistics, not what gets reported in the News.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
Arm the the civillians and send them to training classes.

Negative.

Actually, positive. Would you want to mug someone knowing that theres a good chance that they'll be armed?

This wasn't a Mugging. It was a shootout between 2 groups where innocent bystanders were caught in the crossfire. If civilians were armed, there'd be chaos(even more) where everyone would be shooting at whom they thought started it.

But the shooting WILL stop when everybody is dead, no?

YES!

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Sabot
My question is this: Is there anything that can be done to help stop this gaining gun violence?

Paul martin has promised to band handguns, but that won't be effective at stopping anything. I don't see anyway out of this sort of thing. The idiots could atleast learn to aim, so they would shoot and kill each other instead of innocent peeps.

Easy. Target practice for the perps. That way they can kill each other and not bystanders.

Paul Martin is an idiot for thinking that banning handguns will solve anything. Shooting at people, except in cases of self defense, is illegal, right? So why would these people care if guns were illegal too?

 

[UnatcoAgent]

I'm sorry but arming the public would certainly not result in less violence. Maybe in parts of the U.S where people are more gun savvy in general, but in Toronto, it would be madness. Most people have never held a firearm in their life, and arming them with something as powerful as a gun would only result in more accidental shootings and things of the like. The thugs are still going to act like thugs if they have the weapons in their own posession, knowing that the person they're mugging or confronting may have a weapon is just going to make them more prone to pull the trigger.

So no, arming the public would not work, especially not in somewhere like Toronto. (IMO)

There has to be another solution.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Sabot
Topic Title: Gun Violence
Topic Summary: I cannot believe this - there must be a solution

I live right at Jane and Finch in Toronto, for anyone who doesn't know it is pretty much the worst part of the city. There have been constant gun problems there.

So, you may have heard that on boxing day 2 groups of teenagers all wielding pistols (a total of 15 of them) began shooting at each other in the downtown core. Not one of them hit their intended target, the only people shot are believed to be innocent by-standers, one of which was a young girl who has died.

My question is this: Is there anything that can be done to help stop this gaining gun violence?

Solution is simple, arm everyone possible and with instructions to fire back.

In no time the idiots you cite here in the article, around Toronto and the rest of Canada experiencing this problem would not only begin to aim better but they most likely would go away, for good.

To put it another way, the problem is not gun violence, the problem is that not enough citizenry is armed.

 

[UnatcoAgent]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Sabot
Topic Title: Gun Violence
Topic Summary: I cannot believe this - there must be a solution

I live right at Jane and Finch in Toronto, for anyone who doesn't know it is pretty much the worst part of the city. There have been constant gun problems there.

So, you may have heard that on boxing day 2 groups of teenagers all wielding pistols (a total of 15 of them) began shooting at each other in the downtown core. Not one of them hit their intended target, the only people shot are believed to be innocent by-standers, one of which was a young girl who has died.

My question is this: Is there anything that can be done to help stop this gaining gun violence?

Solution is simple, arm everyone possible and with instructions to fire back.

In no time the idiots you cite here in the article, around Toronto and the rest of Canada experiencing this problem would not only begin to aim better but they most likely would go away, for good.

To put it another way, the problem is not gun violence, the problem is that not enough citizenry is armed.

That is so absurd, more guns will not solve the problems of gun violence. The idea that you can arm every person and expect there to be any sort of decrease in the amount of gun related crimes is just ridiculous. What about the elderly being mugged who use strollers, or the kids who are 14 and younger being held at gun point?

It is not any kind of solution, it just expands the possibilities for gun violence immensly.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Condor
Solve the drug problem, you solve most of the crime problems.

Smartest thing I've seen in this thread...

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: TallBill
Actually, positive. Would you want to mug someone knowing that theres a good chance that they'll be armed?

I'd shoot first and and ask questions later.

See, but you dont have the criminal mind of a street thug. They are out for easy money, not murder or a gunfight.

There are a few sickos that are out just to kill, but they'd shoot you regardless of you being armed. And at least you could fight back.

That doesn't really make sense, the whole concept of being armed is that the crook KNOWS you are armed (or otherwise not an easy target) and picks on someone else. If you end up in a gun battle with an armed robber, you have a great chance of dying, especially because your gun is concealed when he pulls one on you. As a deterent for you personally, concealed weapons just don't seem that great.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Condor
Solve the drug problem, you solve most of the crime problems.

Smartest thing I've seen in this thread...

Legalize drugs = solve the drug problem = solve the crime problem.

The mafia came out of the prohibition. The gangs and drug-related violence came out of the drug ban. The addicts will be addicts, but at least they'll be high on pharmacologically pure dope.

This would bring in tons of money out of the criminal world and into the economy... it would also bring in quite a bit of money into the federal budget through taxes. And, most importantly, the criminal empires would dissolve, having no illicit products to trade any longer.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Condor
Solve the drug problem, you solve most of the crime problems.

Smartest thing I've seen in this thread...

Legalize drugs = solve the drug problem = solve the crime problem.

The mafia came out of the prohibition. The gangs and drug-related violence came out of the drug ban. The addicts will be addicts, but at least they'll be high on pharmacologically pure dope.

This would bring in tons of money out of the criminal world and into the economy... it would also bring in quite a bit of money into the federal budget through taxes. And, most importantly, the criminal empires would dissolve, having no illicit products to trade any longer.

I couldn't agree more. I happen to think drugs are a serious health problem in this country, but making it a law enforcement issue has had very negative consequences.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I couldn't agree more. I happen to think drugs are a serious health problem in this country, but making it a law enforcement issue has had very negative consequences.

I agree... the health problem is tremendous... but look at the problems caused by alcohol and tobacco - they supercede the drug issue by orders of magnitude, and yet are perfectly legal.

So as opposed to arguing for a ban on tobacco or alcohol (nooooooo!), I'll argue that letting people pollute their bodies is just a natural extension of their right to privacy.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I couldn't agree more. I happen to think drugs are a serious health problem in this country, but making it a law enforcement issue has had very negative consequences.

I agree... the health problem is tremendous... but look at the problems caused by alcohol and tobacco - they supercede the drug issue by orders of magnitude, and yet are perfectly legal.

So as opposed to arguing for a ban on tobacco or alcohol (nooooooo!), I'll argue that letting people pollute their bodies is just a natural extension of their right to privacy.

And one thing drug legalization would almost certainly do is give us a better ability to keep drugs out of kids hands. This sounds wrong, until you ask the average high schooler whether beer or weed is easier to get.

 

[UnatcoAgent]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I couldn't agree more. I happen to think drugs are a serious health problem in this country, but making it a law enforcement issue has had very negative consequences.

I agree... the health problem is tremendous... but look at the problems caused by alcohol and tobacco - they supercede the drug issue by orders of magnitude, and yet are perfectly legal.

So as opposed to arguing for a ban on tobacco or alcohol (nooooooo!), I'll argue that letting people pollute their bodies is just a natural extension of their right to privacy.

And one thing drug legalization would almost certainly do is give us a better ability to keep drugs out of kids hands. This sounds wrong, until you ask the average high schooler whether beer or weed is easier to get.

Agreed, weed is incredibly easy to get, especially here in Canada now, it takes very little effort.

So I think we can agree that legalizing drugs will begin to help the problem, but what else can be done?

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: sandorski

This wasn't a Mugging. It was a shootout between 2 groups where innocent bystanders were caught in the crossfire. If civilians were armed, there'd be chaos(even more) where everyone would be shooting at whom they thought started it.

I totally agree that anyone else joining the fight would cause chaos.

But not just because "civilians were armed". It'd be because armed civilians made the wrong choice to enter a gun fight. Guns on civilians are meant to stop a crime against innocent persons.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Sabot
So I think we can agree that legalizing drugs will begin to help the problem, but what else can be done?

Economic pressure is the most powerful method of persuasion. Once there is no money to be made on the street, the ranks of thugs will be depleted quickly. They'll kill each other off in competition for whatever money is still out there to be made illicitly. Others will get caught, and many will return back to the society. Most importantly, there will be fewer people joining these groups with every year.

Afterwards, the main problem will be gun accidents, and crimes of passion. We can't do anything about the latter, since they will be committed regardless of the weapon. But the former can be dealt with through much tougher legislation which will impose severe punishment on those who do not treat their weapons responsibly.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Condor
Solve the drug problem, you solve most of the crime problems.

Smartest thing I've seen in this thread...

Legalize drugs = solve the drug problem = solve the crime problem.

The mafia came out of the prohibition. The gangs and drug-related violence came out of the drug ban. The addicts will be addicts, but at least they'll be high on pharmacologically pure dope.

This would bring in tons of money out of the criminal world and into the economy... it would also bring in quite a bit of money into the federal budget through taxes. And, most importantly, the criminal empires would dissolve, having no illicit products to trade any longer.

Exactly, but the problem is to get the government to actually do this ...

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: AznAnarchy99

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Condor
Solve the drug problem, you solve most of the crime problems.

Smartest thing I've seen in this thread...

Legalize drugs = solve the drug problem = solve the crime problem.

The mafia came out of the prohibition. The gangs and drug-related violence came out of the drug ban. The addicts will be addicts, but at least they'll be high on pharmacologically pure dope.

This would bring in tons of money out of the criminal world and into the economy... it would also bring in quite a bit of money into the federal budget through taxes. And, most importantly, the criminal empires would dissolve, having no illicit products to trade any longer.

Exactly, but the problem is to get the government to actually do this ...

By banning lobbying, and mandating the maximum amount allowed to be spent on campaigns.

We have legalized bribing of politicians. And while tobacco and alcohol manufacturers can fly politicians all over the world in their corporate jets, arrange $10'000/head receptions, and do it all without being guilty of wrongdoing, there will be no drug reform. Simply speaking - the current dope manufacturers don't want competition.