[Guru3D]AMD Radeon 7000 series coming in Q2?

[lifeblood]

Just to throw my SWAG in, I think the first 7xxx card will be a die shrink of the current 68xx and arrive q3. The most profitable discrete card currently for AMD is the 57xx/67xx according to what I've read. Shrinking a 67xx won't work because it is not a true 6xxx series, while the 68xx is. That would make today's' upper middle class card tomorrows lower middle card.

Given all the troubles TSMC has had with 32/28nm and the problems nVidia had because of 40nm, I see both nVidia and AMD releasing pipe-cleaner die shrinks.

 

[tincart]

Just to throw my SWAG in, I think the first 7xxx card will be a die shrink of the current 68xx and arrive q3. The most profitable discrete card currently for AMD is the 57xx/67xx according to what I've read. Shrinking a 67xx won't work because it is not a true 6xxx series, while the 68xx is. That would make today's' upper middle class card tomorrows lower middle card.

This would mean VLIW-5 sticking around for the 7xxx series.

 

[tijag]

Just to throw my SWAG in, I think the first 7xxx card will be a die shrink of the current 68xx and arrive q3. The most profitable discrete card currently for AMD is the 57xx/67xx according to what I've read. Shrinking a 67xx won't work because it is not a true 6xxx series, while the 68xx is. That would make today's' upper middle class card tomorrows lower middle card.

Given all the troubles TSMC has had with 32/28nm and the problems nVidia had because of 40nm, I see both nVidia and AMD releasing pipe-cleaner die shrinks.

I think if AMD does do a 'pipecleaner', its mostly likely going to be a refresh of the VLIW-4 archetecture + whatever they had to leave out of the 69xx's due to being stuck at 40nm.

I assume much of that work was already 'done' and that they had to fork it to change the design for 40nm.

960 SP VLIW-4 @ 28nm is what I would expect for a 'pipecleaner' product. Product would be called like HD7770. with 960 SP's and other improvments it's probalby as fast or faster than a 6870, but smaller, quieter, lower powerful, and better at GPGPU.

 

[lifeblood]

This would mean VLIW-5 sticking around for the 7xxx series.

Hmm, you're correct. I didn't remember Barts was VLIW-5. Ok, I stand corrected. Damn, it isn't even released yet and I already wrong!

I still see them releasing a midrange to lower midrange card first, but it will need to be VLIW-4. That is still very doable. They have good experience with the design of the 69xx series, so the pipe-cleaner can just be a smaller, less capable cousin of those, shrunk to 28nm.

I would then expect the rest of the 7xxx series to be quite different, implementing new bells and whistles using the knowledge of the 28nm process gained by the pipe-cleaner product.

 

[Golgatha]

7000 series available now at Newegg.com

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...eon%207000

 

[dmoney1980]

7000 series available now at Newegg.com

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...eon%207000

LOL nice!

 

[nemesismk2]

7000 series available now at Newegg.com

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...eon%207000

you got me all excited because I am eager to find out what the 7000 series are going to perform like.

 

[lifeblood]

you got me all excited because I am eager to find out what the 7000 series are going to perform like.

If it performs like the card he linked to I think we will all be sorely disappointed. I can't believe they're still selling those things.

 

[Skurge]

Just because there isnt a DX9 path means it is built ground up in DX11? That is just pure speculation. You do know this is a console game as well meaning the engine must support the DX9 hardware in the Xbox and PS3. Do you think they built separately from the ground up for PC and consoles? Or would a more likely explanation be: They dropped DX9 so that they have a good excuse to drop XP support saving time and money as well as producing the impression of giving special attention to PC version.

I want to believe all is good but look at DICE past history: BC2 also looked impressive before launch and was also hyped up to make full use of PC hardware. But it turned out the game looks largely the same on consoles.

Well That's another way of looking at it. Besides as far as I know Consoles aren't strictly DX9 So they could make it work by stripping stuff out of the engine that wont work on the consoles. The Xbox is more like DX9+ than just normal DX9. I don't know much about the PS3 really. I'm just being hopeful here.

 

[Skurge]

Yep. This Fall.

Evidently it's AMD Graphics' Tic - toc

^_^

When exactly is Fall?

 

[Zargon]

What makes you think that it's going to be anything special System-load wise? It's going to be a PS3/X360 game as well so don't get your hopes up like a lot of people did for Crysis 2.

if its not I dont think anyone will take them seriously again, atleast not PC Gamers.


I was thinking 7xxx would be like Nov, I guess earlier is better.

 

[busydude]

When exactly is Fall?

Fall is the American version for Autumn. Period of transitions from Summer to winter, usually in September in Northern Hemisphere.

 

[Skurge]

Fall is the American version for Autumn. Period of transitions from Summer to winter, usually in September in Northern Hemisphere.

That's Spring over here. Same timeframe as 5 and 6 series releases then.

 

[WMD]

Well That's another way of looking at it. Besides as far as I know Consoles aren't strictly DX9 So they could make it work by stripping stuff out of the engine that wont work on the consoles. The Xbox is more like DX9+ than just normal DX9. I don't know much about the PS3 really. I'm just being hopeful here.

So you are saying they can make a dx11/10 only engine work with a console version of dx9 but not pc dx9c? This is implying xbox dx9 is alot closer to dx10 than dx9. If that is the case most console ports will be dx10 instead of dx9 on PC.

 

[3DVagabond]

I thought that Dx11 was backward compatible to run on Dx9.0c hardware, and more importantly, OS (ie: Windows XP). Just without the additional (unsupported) feature set.

 

[wahdangun]

So you are saying they can make a dx11/10 only engine work with a console version of dx9 but not pc dx9c? This is implying xbox dx9 is alot closer to dx10 than dx9. If that is the case most console ports will be dx10 instead of dx9 on PC.

no, because the xenos gpu in xbox have dx10 type of shader, and its a fully programable gpu.

maybe because in the past there are more windows xp user base than vista?
Or because the console didn't have the power to use dx 10 effect ?

 

[WMD]

no, because the xenos gpu in xbox have dx10 type of shader, and its a fully programable gpu.

maybe because in the past there are more windows xp user base than vista?
Or because the console didn't have the power to use dx 10 effect ?

Unified shader architect does not mean it is DX10. ATI has comfirm the XBox gpu is not DX10 capable. Besides you don't need DX10 to make use unified shader architecture in modern gpus.

 

[wahdangun]

Unified shader architect does not mean it is DX10. ATI has comfirm the XBox gpu is not DX10 capable. Besides you don't need DX10 to make use unified shader architecture in modern gpus.

I'm not saying it was dx10 compatible. I said same type

 

[Arkadrel]

I think if AMD does do a 'pipecleaner', its mostly likely going to be a refresh of the VLIW-4 archetecture + whatever they had to leave out of the 69xx's due to being stuck at 40nm.

I assume much of that work was already 'done' and that they had to fork it to change the design for 40nm.

960 SP VLIW-4 @ 28nm is what I would expect for a 'pipecleaner' product. Product would be called like HD7770. with 960 SP's and other improvments it's probalby as fast or faster than a 6870, but smaller, quieter, lower powerful, and better at GPGPU.

^-^

I had forgotten about the VLIW-4 and -5 thingy.

I was about to write about how, I could see a 7770, that was just a 6870 that was shrunk on 28nm.
They could probably make a 6870 on 28nm that was like ~160mm^2 big, and sell it for like 100$.

But I think, what you suggested is more likely to happend.

a "960 SP VLIW-4 @ 28nm" card called the 7770 is probably right around the corner

Also the 960 SP VLIW-4 SHOULD be faster than the 6870 = 1120 SP VLIW-5.

960 / 4 = 240
1120 / 5 = 224

Also on 28nm, I dont think a 960 SP card, would be much bigger than 160mm^2.
Which means they could keep the same price points, makeing a 100$ 7770.

Crazy to think youd be able to get 560/470 level of performance for ~100$, thanks to 28nm.
Depends on how aggressive AMD are with priceing though, maybe they want to earn better off it than their doing on the 5770 atm.

 

[AtenRa]

If TSMC 28nm process dont have problems then we will not see a pipe cleaner product and we will have a High End card release after September/October.

 

[RussianSensation]

Also the 960 SP VLIW-4 SHOULD be faster than the 6870 = 1120 SP VLIW-5.

That really depends on how the game is programmed. For instance, 1408 SP 6950 is barely faster than an 1120 SP 6870 in Crysis 2:

Which means they could keep the same price points, makeing a 100$ 7770. Crazy to think youd be able to get 560/470 level of performance for ~100$, thanks to 28nm.

Considering HD6790 debuted at $149 and HD5770 came out at $159, there is no way AMD is going to launch a card with GTX560 level of performance for $99 this summer. If NV has nothing to compete with it, then AMD will easily launch it at $149-$159 as they have done in the past. Why undercut your card so much at launch if it's competitive?

 

[Arkadrel]

If NV has nothing to compete with it, then AMD will easily launch it at $149. Why undercut your card so much at launch?

Good point, cant really fault that logic... time for AMD to make some $.

Its odd how being first to market can translate into $, but seeing as how big the jump from 40->28nm is, I guess it makes sense to capitalise on getting a product out asap.
Which probably means Nvidia guys are working their butts off atm, to push out the next line as well.

Any rumors about nvidia's 600 series? or when those will be out?


*edit>

Those drivers for the 6950, for Crysis 2 ....
>_<' they look like they could use some attention, obviously not optimised for that game.

 

[tijag]

If TSMC 28nm process dont have problems then we will not see a pipe cleaner product and we will have a High End card release after September/October.

This logic doesn't make sense.

How could AMD know in advance whether or not TSMC will have any unforeseen problems with the new 28nm process? I think the obvious answer is that you make a pipe-cleaner specifically because you do not know what the problems will be.

I'm not saying that AMD will absolutely release this sort of pipe-cleaner product first, but if they go with a high end card first, then they are deciding to take a risk/roll the dice on the process. The gamble may pay off, or perhaps they know that they will have an 'x month' lead on Nvidia, which, regardless of how well they have the process nailed down, will give them a big enough lead to do the first gen 7xxx series, and then do a slight re-spin to fix whatever problems they uncover in the process. No one can know at this point.

Not even AMD could have known in advance that the process would be smooth sailing, or flawed like 40nm was. Whatever taped out a few months ago, the decision to make that GPU was made months before any kind of working silicon would have been available. They either decided to gamble and go big, or play it conservative.

Honestly, they'd probably make more money by making the so called '7770' GPU, because it could probably sell for $170, and cost them far less to make than the 6870 does, leading to bigger margins.

A theoretical HD7750 832 SP gpu for $140 would be an amazing value for that price point. You'd see them all over the place in prebuilt computers. Also sounds like something Apple would put in their Mac Pro line.

Assuming they switch over to VLIW-4 for their whole line, top to bottom, I think a mainstream GPU launch makes a lot of sense to start with. Its where they would build the most market share, and mind share.

Offering a good performance at a great price. It would probably perform to about 560Ti levels, and be able to destroy the 560Ti on price.

The big question in this is how far out is Nvidia's next GPU line.

Unless Nvidia breaks from prior form, their first GPU WILL be the top end behemoth GPU, so if AMD doesn't expect that until feb/mar, then they probably have plenty of time to launch the mainstream product first, and go after nvidia at the top at a later date.

We mostly talk about the 69xx series and the 570/580's, but the reality is, that the vast majority of people won't ever buy that expensive of a GPU. AMD probably would want to grab as much market share as possible with a outstanding performance from a midrange GPU.

Cayman die shrink will probably be the 78xx, and something new and potentially very powerful will be the 79xx series.

7970 performance would probably be around 80&#37; more than a 6970 - nearly 6990 perf
7870 performance would probably be around 15-20% more than 6970 - approx 570 perf
7770 performance would probably be around 15-20% more than a 6870 - approx 560Ti perf

The spot the theoretical 7770 would fill, is also where AMD is the weakest right now. They are using a rebadged 5770 for that target. So launching the new GPU there makes sense.

 

[nemesismk2]

I have seen companies still trying to sell geforce fx video cards lol

If it performs like the card he linked to I think we will all be sorely disappointed. I can't believe they're still selling those things.

 

[nemesismk2]

I am probably going to avoid one of the 7000 video cards because right now I am very happy with my sapphire radeon 5850 extreme. the reason I like it so much is because of the extreme bit in the name lol and the cheap price.