EVGA isn't claiming they bought anything. They are trying to say that Precision 15 is all new and done in house. If that's their defense they're in trouble, because it's blatantly obvious they "slapped a new coat of paint on it" and called it their own.
And yet, it's the same core program and same Rivatuner backend that they contracted for and that's existed in Precision for what, 18 months now?
If the contract specifies EVGA owes licensing fees, then they owe fees for continuing to use it. Otherwise, the contract means they can continue to use what they previously bought & paid for. Without seeing the contract it's silly to rush to judgment on either side.
The agreement defines the following intellectual property ownership terms: software product which I develop remains my copyrighted property, but during the contract the company receives exclusive distribution rights on it.
Second, I just decided to peek inside "in-house" application EXE. I'd better avoid doing so: even my original EXE string table is inside new executable as is. Including all the messages of original application, including all the messages of my proprietary USF skin compiler / decompiler built into original RivaTuner skinning engine, even including the references to original RivaTuner core libraries (RTTSH.dll). Even including the messages related to RivaTuner’s G15 LCD output module, which the company probably also tried to clone but couldn’t get working yet. Really, EVGA?
How is the blatantly obvious? Rivatuner isn't using some new and revolutionary design scheme. Literally, every program from the XP days looks like that.
And, all that is show are screen shots of the finished program. The code behind it could be entirely different. And if he (Alex) was contracted to code this for EVGA, he is screwed. Also, if Afterburner had these "advanced features" Alex is crying about before Rivatuner, prior art exists.
My opinion is, the guy who develops riva tuner (unwinder) is basically a jerk and is one of the most unpleasant people to converse with on the forums by a mile. Just look at his post history at guru3d. The guy's a piece of work. I mean there are jerks, and then there's unwinder, a whole new level.
I'm not sure what to think, but I don't think i'll lose any sleep if he's losing on licensing fees from EVGA. OTOH, I don't what ramifications are there - it seems to me that it's just reporting similar things as what the afterburner overlay does. Over apps do this as well. I mean, it's just reporting information. Is that wrong? I don't know. I don't have a problem with EVGA and this affects nothing, really, I guess unwinder really sticks out in my mind as being very rude, far more than anyone else i've ever seen really. Of course that doesn't affect whether this is wrong or right, and I don't know, but i'm inclined to say that many apps report the same thing with no ramifications. And unwinder being so unpleasant certainly doesn't make me want to join his cause. I mean what's the big deal. It is reporting GPU clockspeeds, memory, framerate, etc etc etc. Who cares? Tons of apps have done and will do this. Big deal.
And yet, it's the same core program and same Rivatuner backend that they contracted for and that's existed in Precision for what, 18 months now?
If the contract specifies EVGA owes licensing fees, then they owe fees for continuing to use it. Otherwise, the contract means they can continue to use what they previously bought & paid for. Without seeing the contract it's silly to rush to judgment on either side.
Yeah, Unwinder is an ass. He even admits in one of his posts on guru that EVGA didn't use his code. He's just all butt hurt about losing a customer and is throwing a tantrum about it.
The part he doesn't understand is that other companies are going to see his behavior and not do any business with him in the future. He's basically cutting his own throat.
So basically, this is a contract dispute?
It depends on the contract if they bought their own copy of the software versus if they were simply licensing the software from Unwinder... If it was only a license then EVGA's in trouble. But if EVGA bought their own copy then they're entitled to keep the design as it was from the date they parted ways.
Read the article. The Afterburner features discussed were done by Unwinder/Alex for MSI. He didn't do them for Precision and EVGA got their panties twisted. He claims he wasn't contracted to do it for EVGA is why he didn't. EVGA hasn't disputed that. I guess they expected him to do it for free?
Really? Link?
Neither EVGA nor MSI have access to source code.
EVGA’s brand new “in-house” OSD is also open a simple rip of open source FW1FontWrapper overlay.
Sadly some "genius" from EVGA decided that it is also good idea to throw away not only original Precision codebase but also hard work of all users from EVGA community who worked on designing custom skins for EVGA Precision during these years.
The most sad and painful thing for me is that the company entirely copy-pasted RivaTuner’s unique concepts of displaying data into On-Screen Display.
Etc., etc.Out intellectual property ownership terms of agreement define that I own software product copyrights, the company exclusively owns the product distribution rights as well as non-software intellectual properties like trademarks, product name, logos and artwork I create for them during the contract.
Headfoot, thanks for the post. So I used the wrong terminology, it's a copyright dispute, but it still comes down to who actually had the rights.
From Unwinder:
Etc., etc.
Alex is just being a Richard, per usual. Did you forget how he stopped working on the original software once he started to get paid by the AIB vendors?
They're all in the link provided by the op. I don't see how to give direct links to comments at Guru.
That's fine. At least I know where to look and see everything he said. I'm not sure what you are getting at though that makes him a dick? At least not in this instance.
My opinion is, the guy who develops riva tuner (unwinder) is basically a jerk and is one of the most unpleasant people to converse with on the forums by a mile. Just look at his post history at guru3d. The guy's a piece of work. I mean there are jerks, and then there's unwinder, a whole new level.
I'm not sure what to think, but I don't think i'll lose any sleep if he's losing on licensing fees from EVGA. OTOH, I don't what ramifications are there - it seems to me that it's just reporting similar things as what the afterburner overlay does. Over apps do this as well. I mean, it's just reporting information. Is that wrong? I don't know. I don't have a problem with EVGA and this affects nothing, really, I guess unwinder really sticks out in my mind as being very rude, far more than anyone else i've ever seen really. Of course that doesn't affect whether this is wrong or right, and I don't know, but i'm inclined to say that many apps report the same thing with no ramifications. And unwinder being so unpleasant certainly doesn't make me want to join his cause. I mean what's the big deal. It is reporting GPU clockspeeds, memory, framerate, etc etc etc. Who cares? Tons of apps have done and will do this. Big deal.
I just decided to peek inside "in-house" application EXE. I'd better avoid doing so: even my original EXE string table is inside new executable as is. Including all the messages of original application, including all the messages of my proprietary USF skin compiler / decompiler built into original RivaTuner skinning engine, even including the references to original RivaTuner core libraries (RTTSH.dll). Even including the messages related to RivaTuners G15 LCD output module, which the company probably also tried to clone but couldnt get working yet. Really, EVGA?
We understand that there is a lot of confusion and misinformation in the internet community about Guru3D’s article titled “Did EVGA just Steal the Rivatuner RTSS design concept into PrecisionX 15 ?”. We would like to clarify the following:
Precision’s original main GUI concept was designed and provided to the community by EVGA in 2008.
The RivaTuner control panel and backend code in prior versions of Precision were developed and is owned by the RivaTuner developer. EVGA does not own the source code for any RivaTuner code. EVGA paid for the development and distribution rights per the contract.
The new EVGA PrecisionX 15 was coded from scratch by EVGA without copying any of the RivaTuner code.
Both RivaTuner and EVGA PrecisionX 15 make use of the NVIDIA NVAPI to communicate with NVIDIA graphics cards and drivers, which is owned and provided by NVIDIA.
Some people mentioned that the file structure in EVGA PrecisionX 15 is similar to the previous version of Precision. During development, we referenced the USF skin format (which has been published by RivaTuner developer at Guru3D forums in 2009 http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=3316361&postcount=8 to allow the community to create their own skins). The above mentioned feature would make it simple to allow users to recompile any previous skins to work with the new version of PrecisionX 15. However, we do understand the confusion caused by trying to maintain this feature and we will change it in the next release.
Next, it was also mentioned that the code contains text references (not code) to the word “RivaTuner” and the word “RTTSH.dll”, a RivaTuner file. This actually came from the user interface localization / help (wording). During the original Precision development, EVGA worked with several outside firms to help translate user interface help files into various languages, unfortunately this is a misprint in the translation files and will be fixed. Again, no RivaTuner code was ever used in EVGA PrecisionX 15. We apologize to the RivaTuner developer for this error.
Originally our goal was to add more features such as 64bit OSD, Steam, updated voltage controls, and more to a new version without changing the Precision user’s experience that they were already familiar with. Unfortunately, the “similarities” between the two programs have led people to believe that EVGA might have copied the code and design from RivaTuner, which is not the case.
Given the circumstances, in order to remove any questions and to further differentiate it visually from the previous versions of EVGA Precision, EVGA has decided to listen to the community and suspend the downloading of EVGA PrecisionX 15 temporarily while these updates are being implemented.
Thank You,
EVGA
Whether he had solid legal grounds vs evga or not, it still may not be worth the time or trouble to pursue it as well as burning his bridges with them. I dont think theres much to gain from any legal action against evga anyway. If push came to shove, they could just say it was a mistake and alter the code or stop offering it as their software... which they seem to have done anyway.i see both sides.
One thing everyone should note is Unwinder claimed he would not pursue legal action against EVGA for what they have done. In my opinion, if he really had grounds suing them would have been the most appropriate thing to do. Not throw a huge public fit with slander and defacing involved.
The route he took is extremely interesting and it might even be telling. He probably had no real grounds for a lawsuit. Although he may not have grounds, his actions of defamation give grounds for EVGA especially if it hurts sales. So ultimately the way he handled this is could come back to haunt him in a very profound way. Not only from EVGA but he hurt his own image. No business would want to work with such a loose cannon.
In every single way a lawsuit would have been better. It is the way you handle a licensing dispute. So it really makes me question if unwinder really thinks that his code was actually used. I believe he knows it wasnt. But the idea, yeap. The style, yep. It look similar for sure. But in EVGAs mind they took over the project and they were trying to add the features they wanted.
blackened23's train of thought: "The developer is an asshole anyway, who cares, no big deal."
I honestly hope unwinder sues them.