[Guru3d] Oculus Rift Pre-Order $599/€699

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Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
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Is that with VAT? Remember the prices in the states are before tax.

Yes, the Euro prices include the 20%+ VAT in it plus international shipping. They made this somewhat clear through press releases. They are not charging more to international buyers for the actual product.

The only thing that matters is what the large average joe crowd thinks. If they dont approve its a failure. And that's where this forum tend to go wrong every single time.

Not at all, extremely far from it. This is not an average joe release. This is an enthusiast release and their first commercial product. People thinking this was going to be VR for the masses when their messaging has been a $1500 entry fee for months prior to this preorder are rewriting history.

A Titan works with any game, how many games do VR work in? And of those games, how many is even worth playing. Not even talking about paying 600$ to get the VR experience.

3D was also amazing...

This release is the first commercial step for VR. As I said earlier, tech is always expensive when it first comes out. Oculus has been focused with its marketing, targeting tech websites and enthusiast gamers. When the product is ready for "average joes" then you will see advertising targeting those groups. We see none, so this is not a release for them.
 

mysticjbyrd

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2015
1,363
3
0
+1 on this. $599 for an intro price is a lot cheaper than I thought it would be. This is easily in the budget range for enthusiasts. It's just going to get cheaper as economy of scales and competition increase. I think the only issue people will have is that the tech is going to move quickly. These early HMDs aren't going to be relevant for very long.

They aren't relevant now. Seriously, have you looked at the images from these things?
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,355
642
121
haven't been this excited for something in a long time, so although the price was more than I was expecting, I was already mentally committed to this a few months ago. Had a few issues with the site being overwhelmed by traffic, but got my pre-order in with expected April ship date.

I don't mean to be rude but I don't think VRR is really worth it for anyone other than people like yourself who have a GTX 980TI SLI or a Fury X CF rig. In that case, this really is only incremental money spent.

From looking at the Elite Dangerous forum, if you use the recommended specs, you're lucky to eek out playing at LOW settings with VRR. I'd rather play on a monitor then (or whatever you use).

But if you have a SLI/CF of the highest end cards? Then you might be able to eek out medium/high settings maybe even ultra.

The problem is, Elite Dangerous is one of the easier to run games if I'm not mistaken. So I'm just not sure if the settings you can run with the recommended specs for games that would make VRR appealing to GTX 970/R9 290 owner.

I'll wait for the reviews on how much GPU horsepower it takes first, but I'm not remotely surprised at the price tag and think it's weird people expected less around $350. I think $350 is a long term price. Not a now price though. This is an early adopter price.

I'm extremely interested in performance reviews. Are there any of the dev kits?

Edit: The Euro price is ridiculous obviously... what? I'm not sure how popular it will be over there compared to the states...
 
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Despoiler

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2007
1,966
770
136
They aren't relevant now. Seriously, have you looked at the images from these things?

I think you are confusing the simple trade show demos with the overall capabilities. You might want to check out the gaming VR demos like Elite Dangerous.
 

n0x1ous

Platinum Member
Sep 9, 2010
2,572
248
106
I don't mean to be rude but I don't think VRR is really worth it for anyone other than people like yourself who have a GTX 980TI SLI or a Fury X CF rig. In that case, this really is only incremental money spent.

From looking at the Elite Dangerous forum, if you use the recommended specs, you're lucky to eek out playing at LOW settings with VRR. I'd rather play on a monitor then (or whatever you use).

But if you have a SLI/CF of the highest end cards? Then you might be able to eek out medium/high settings maybe even ultra.

The problem is, Elite Dangerous is one of the easier to run games if I'm not mistaken. So I'm just not sure if the settings you can run with the recommended specs for games that would make VRR appealing to GTX 970/R9 290 owner.

I'll wait for the reviews on how much GPU horsepower it takes first, but I'm not remotely surprised at the price tag and think it's weird people expected less around $350. I think $350 is a long term price. Not a now price though. This is an early adopter price.

I'm extremely interested in performance reviews. Are there any of the dev kits?

Edit: The Euro price is ridiculous obviously... what? I'm not sure how popular it will be over there compared to the states...

nothing rude about your statement. I agree. I think the 970/290 spec is going to disappoint people. unless they are good running medium to low settings.

But i also understand why Ocululs isn't going to say 980ti SLI as recommended spec.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,355
642
121
nothing rude about your statement. I agree. I think the 970/290 spec is going to disappoint people. unless they are good running medium to low settings.

But i also understand why Ocululs isn't going to say 980ti SLI as recommended spec.
I think they thought people with 970s might buy it. But I think that's really just going to hurt them. Because people will have a 970 and be like "I'd rather use my 1440p monitor".

I actually think the price works in its favor. Those who pick it up have rigs that will also handle the intensive settings and show vr in a good light. I'm sure you'll have far better things to say when you pick it up, vs if a 290 user like me picked it up and used it with my rig, I probably won't have much good to say (but I also think like you said, 980ti sli or fury x crossfire is the minimum I'm. Maybe 980/fury. Any lower, and it's not worth it.
 

kaesden

Member
Nov 10, 2015
61
2
11
i was hoping it would be ~300-350. even 400 i would have considered taking a look at it. At 600, i'm just not interested for what is currently only a novelty. Its priced too high to get wide enough adoption to really take off unfortunately. I'm sure the tech is cool and impressive, but i'm not spending $600 to find out if its something i'm interested in or not. Especially considering i'd also have to upgrade my pc to meet the proper specs.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
This release is the first commercial step for VR. As I said earlier, tech is always expensive when it first comes out. Oculus has been focused with its marketing, targeting tech websites and enthusiast gamers. When the product is ready for "average joes" then you will see advertising targeting those groups. We see none, so this is not a release for them.

This post nails it. Cutting edge tech = always expensive at launch. When plasma TVs came out and offered the best IQ, they were crazy expensive. When 1080p OLED came out, it was expensive. BluRay players & PS3 = expensive.

The strategy of launching Rift at $600 US is smart because the high price suggests the firm thinks this product is actually revolutionary. If this was priced at $299 at launch, people would think it's just a cheap gimmick. Right now they can create a halo effect and start the hype train slowly around this premium experience. Then in 2-3 years drop the price to $299 or something and the mainstream consumer will remember that this cutting edge tech was initially an expensive $600 device. Then in 4-5 years they can drop it to $149-199 but people will always remember that it cost $600. If you want to associate your next gen revolutionary tech with premium experience, you don't price it low. Just like LG doesn't sell cutting edge OLED TVs for Vizio LED prices.

I remember the haters who bashed early BluRay, plasma, OLEDs, micro-4/3rds cameras, you name it:

"It was 10 years ago that Panasonic introduced one of the first Blu-ray players, the DMP-BD10, and like the first DVD players before it, the BD10 cost a mint ($1,300). It seems that in order to help popularize the latest format in the face of competition from 4K streaming, Panasonic's competitors are pricing the new 4K Blu-ray players a lot more reasonably at around $400 to $500."
http://www.cnet.com/products/panasonic-dmp-ub900/

Cutting edge tech that first sells in low volumes is expensive and that's how tech has always been. By definition, cutting edge/latest tech => never aimed at the mainstream market.

Just like when $5000 120Hz 4K OLED Monitors, $133,000 8K TVs enter the market, they won't be aimed at the mainstream consumer at first.

Come on you people have some serious double standards when you think $1K GPUs are fine or mid-range chips going for $500 or more is acceptable..

VR is an entire new way to experience all media including games. $600 is cheap compared to inflated GPU prices.

This guy gets it. Comparing VR experience to conventional gaming by using $600 GPU prices is a flawed comparison. Even the conventional price/performance metric hardly applies to VR vs. GPU prices since the 'quality/experience' per frame is completely different. You can have 4 Pascal Titans in Quad-SLI and while that's a great experience, VR is a totally different experience. I've had a chance to try VR and while right now without a lot of content I am not going to be an early adopter, no way would I be comparing traditional PC gaming to VR. The 2 experiences are just too different and each has its pros and cons. Over time the tech will come down in price.

It's funny to watch some of the same individuals who crapped on plasma, then HBM1, then OLED, are now crapping on VR. I guess some people just hate progress, something unproven, totally new experience/tech and for them VR is just another new tech to add to that list.

Eventually VR headsets will improve in quality and come down in price, and content will pick up. No need to start the hate wave, especially if one hasn't tried a VR headset at all -- which seems to be the case with a lot of people in this thread/online.
 
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monstercameron

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2013
3,818
1
0
This post nails it. Cutting edge tech = always expensive at launch. When plasma TVs came out and offered the best IQ, they were crazy expensive. When 1080p OLED came out, it was expensive. BluRay players & PS3 = expensive.

The strategy of launching Rift at $600 US is smart because the high price suggests the firm thinks this product is actually revolutionary. If this was priced at $299 at launch, people would think it's just a cheap gimmick. Right now they can create a halo effect and start the hype train slowly around this premium experience. Then in 2-3 years drop the price to $299 or something and the mainstream consumer will remember that this cutting edge tech was initially an expensive $600 device. Then in 4-5 years they can drop it to $149-199 but people will always remember that it cost $600. If you want to associate your next gen revolutionary tech with premium experience, you don't price it low. Just like LG doesn't sell cutting edge OLED TVs for Vizio LED prices.

I remember the haters who bashed early BluRay, plasma, OLEDs, micro-4/3rds cameras, you name it:

"It was 10 years ago that Panasonic introduced one of the first Blu-ray players, the DMP-BD10, and like the first DVD players before it, the BD10 cost a mint ($1,300). It seems that in order to help popularize the latest format in the face of competition from 4K streaming, Panasonic's competitors are pricing the new 4K Blu-ray players a lot more reasonably at around $400 to $500."
http://www.cnet.com/products/panasonic-dmp-ub900/

Cutting edge tech that first sells in low volumes is expensive and that's how tech has always been. By definition, cutting edge/latest tech => never aimed at the mainstream market.

Just like when $5000 120Hz 4K OLED Monitors, $133,000 8K TVs enter the market, they won't be aimed at the mainstream consumer at first.



This guy gets it. Comparing VR experience to conventional gaming by using $600 GPU prices is a flawed comparison. Even the conventional price/performance metric hardly applies to VR vs. GPU prices since the 'quality/experience' per frame is completely different. You can have 4 Pascal Titans in Quad-SLI and while that's a great experience, VR is a totally different experience. I've had a chance to try VR and while right now without a lot of content I am not going to be an early adopter, no way would I be comparing traditional PC gaming to VR. The 2 experiences are just too different and each has its pros and cons. Over time the tech will come down in price.

It's funny to watch some of the same individuals who crapped on plasma, then HBM1, then OLED, are now crapping on VR. I guess some people just hate progress, something unproven, totally new experience/tech and for them VR is just another new tech to add to that list.

Eventually VR headsets will improve in quality and come down in price. No need to start the hate wave, especially if one hasn't tried a VR headset at all -- which seems to be the case with a lot of people in this thread/online.
Hmm the ps3 launched at ~$600 and kinda bombed and then the ps4 launched at $399 and got applause(OK not the only reason). Point being pricing matters. Sometimes you just be wary of the scope creep and launch a focused product.

Why is this even $600? What are the component costs, manu costs etc.
 

frowertr

Golden Member
Apr 17, 2010
1,371
41
91
I'll wait to see if this turns out to be the flop that 3D TV, Nvidia 3DSurround , etc... was. If it is, I'll save $600. If it's not, I'll pick up one in a year or so once the prices come down and the tech matures.
 

Nashemon

Senior member
Jun 14, 2012
889
86
91
$600 is the same price I paid for my first DVD player in 1998. I'm not going to preorder, but definitely buying at least one come release.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
4,787
4,771
136
This post nails it. Cutting edge tech = always expensive at launch. When plasma TVs came out and offered the best IQ, they were crazy expensive. When 1080p OLED came out, it was expensive. BluRay players & PS3 = expensive.

The strategy of launching Rift at $600 US is smart because the high price suggests the firm thinks this product is actually revolutionary. If this was priced at $299 at launch, people would think it's just a cheap gimmick. Right now they can create a halo effect and start the hype train slowly around this premium experience. Then in 2-3 years drop the price to $299 or something and the mainstream consumer will remember that this cutting edge tech was initially an expensive $600 device. Then in 4-5 years they can drop it to $149-199 but people will always remember that it cost $600. If you want to associate your next gen revolutionary tech with premium experience, you don't price it low. Just like LG doesn't sell cutting edge OLED TVs for Vizio LED prices.

I remember the haters who bashed early BluRay, plasma, OLEDs, micro-4/3rds cameras, you name it:

"It was 10 years ago that Panasonic introduced one of the first Blu-ray players, the DMP-BD10, and like the first DVD players before it, the BD10 cost a mint ($1,300). It seems that in order to help popularize the latest format in the face of competition from 4K streaming, Panasonic's competitors are pricing the new 4K Blu-ray players a lot more reasonably at around $400 to $500."

http://www.cnet.com/products/panasonic-dmp-ub900/

Cutting edge tech that first sells in low volumes is expensive and that's how tech has always been. By definition, cutting edge/latest tech => never aimed at the mainstream market.

Just like when $5000 120Hz 4K OLED Monitors, $133,000 8K TVs enter the market, they won't be aimed at the mainstream consumer at first.



This guy gets it. Comparing VR experience to conventional gaming by using $600 GPU prices is a flawed comparison. Even the conventional price/performance metric hardly applies to VR vs. GPU prices since the 'quality/experience' per frame is completely different. You can have 4 Pascal Titans in Quad-SLI and while that's a great experience, VR is a totally different experience. I've had a chance to try VR and while right now without a lot of content I am not going to be an early adopter, no way would I be comparing traditional PC gaming to VR. The 2 experiences are just too different and each has its pros and cons. Over time the tech will come down in price.

It's funny to watch some of the same individuals who crapped on plasma, then HBM1, then OLED, are now crapping on VR. I guess some people just hate progress, something unproven, totally new experience/tech and for them VR is just another new tech to add to that list.

Eventually VR headsets will improve in quality and come down in price, and content will pick up. No need to start the hate wave, especially if one hasn't tried a VR headset at all -- which seems to be the case with a lot of people in this thread/online.
I will start by saying that I want VR to succeed, but in reading your analogy in bold, this thought occurred to me.

Content.

All of the examples you gave did not need new/original content to work. They could function with the old stuff while waiting for the advanced to become available. VR however needs a bottom up redesign for software, which will take time, a lot more than normal. This will slow proliferation.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
Hmm the ps3 launched at ~$600 and kinda bombed and then the ps4 launched at $399 and got applause(OK not the only reason). Point being pricing matters. Sometimes you just be wary of the scope creep and launch a focused product.

These aren't good analogies. The console market is established and has cost expectations. The PS3 was an iterative product that missed its value perception and had a direct competitor that beat them to the market with a lower price point.

Why is this even $600? What are the component costs, manu costs etc.

Luckey somewhat broke down the costs saying that it is a $600 BOM and they won't be making much if any profit from the initial run. 2x OLED 90Hz screens, hard carrying case, sensors, camera unit, processing unit, Xbox One controller, DSLR quality lenses, and the adjustable frame. There is much more going on here than with something like a quality 32" LCD TV that is priced the same.

I will start by saying that I want VR to succeed, but in reading your analogy in bold, this thought occurred to me.

Content.

All of the examples you gave did not need new/original content to work. They could function with the old stuff while waiting for the advanced to become available. VR however needs a bottom up redesign for software, which will take time, a lot more than normal. This will slow proliferation.

DVD was a big deal because of the huge functionality that having a digital media provided such as no rewinds, menus, chapters, and extra features. They did have a huge catalog to digitize and could provide a lot of content rather quickly. I don't believe VR will spread anywhere near as fast as DVD technology did for this reason, but it doesn't have to.

However, VR can be stitched into older games. Mod support for Skyrim and such is already here. It isn't optimal, but neither were older movies being digitized
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
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Is it? You can use your GPU with any game. VR, a handful of games?

Many things offer a new experience, but that doesn't mean its worth paying overprice for or get at any price for that matter. Specially not if the usage is extremely limited.

Come on man look at Star Citizen and the amount of fools separated from their $$ for jpeg ships....

All for one game.

VR if it works as Eve Valkyrie has shown, will be massive just for that crowd alone. Add flight-sim aficionados and all the potential VR content that many people are pushing to that list and boom, show time.

$600 for a revolutionary experience, is significantly cheaper than forking out more than that for a meager performance increase in GPU performance.

Anyone remember the prices of new TV screen tech? Enthusiasts that want new toys and pay so much for iPhones or Samsung stuff shouldn't complain about a $600 VR headset that's top of the line.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Hmm the ps3 launched at ~$600 and kinda bombed and then the ps4 launched at $399 and got applause(OK not the only reason). Point being pricing matters. Sometimes you just be wary of the scope creep and launch a focused product.

That's because for games, Xbox 360 offered superior experience during the early years. Xbox 360 even had a seperior GPU and easier to code for architecture which meant cross-platform 3rd titles ran and looked better on 360.

If there is a competing VR headset that costs $400 and delivers a superior experience to Oculus Rift, then the price would need to drop. Until that happens, they can charge a premium for the unique experience. Frankly, they could charge $999.

In the audiophile world, people who want the best in class pay.

Shure SE846 came out for $999/950 pounds.

HiFiMan HE1000 = $3000 US

Audeze LCD-4 = $4000 US

Unlike videocards or CPUs where you can directly estimate/measure the price/performance or perf/watt or FPS, VR is much like those headphones => It's an experience.

An ice cream sundae at Serendipity 3 restaurant in New York costs $1000 US. Why? It's an experience.

Why is a $1000 Titan X a rip-off? Because we can directly compare it to Fury X CF or 980Ti or 980Ti SLI. What am I comparing Oculus Rift to state that it's not worth $600? Until someone can offer a superior VR experience to Oculus rift or 80-90% of that experience for 50-70% of the price, $600 is cheap. Once someone does, Oculus will either have pricing pressure or pressure to release a better unit.

I will start by saying that I want VR to succeed, but in reading your analogy in bold, this thought occurred to me.

Content.

All of the examples you gave did not need new/original content to work.

- When DVDs, BluRay came out, you couldn't go and buy 200-300 movies at launch
- When micro-4/3rds cameras came out, there was hardly a great selection of lenses while every DSLR owners would talk smack about their accumulated collection and selection of lenses, while ignoring all the things people hated about DSLR - size, bulkiness, weight, etc.
- When PS3 came out and had a BluRay player, almost no one thought the price premium of that feature was worth it over the Xbox 360. Today, a PS3 can still be used as a BluRay player.
- When early 30" 2560x1600 LCD monitors came out, they cost an arm and a leg. It wasn't unusual for them to cost $1300-1500 US. Today, it's possible to buy a superior 30-32" monitor for $400-500 US. Same with 4K monitors of 2-3 years ago vs. now.

Look at the original iPad. When it first came out, a lot of people thought it was an overpriced and useless toy and there weren't many tablet apps for this new device. Point is, cutting edge tech starts off high and eventually improves in quality and drops in price. To truly judge if VR is going to fail or not is going to take years, not months.

$600 for a revolutionary experience, is significantly cheaper than forking out more than that for a meager performance increase in GPU performance.

Anyone remember the prices of new TV screen tech? Enthusiasts that want new toys and pay so much for iPhones or Samsung stuff shouldn't complain about a $600 VR headset that's top of the line.

Ya, that's the key word right there. Literally 40+ million people buy the next iteration of iPhone per quarter, a $650 US device at minimum and don't even blink an eye. Cuz of work I have 5->6S and frankly it's all "the same ****". You cannot tell me that iPhone 6S is revolutionary experience compared to iPhone 6/Samsung S6 because it's not and yet people have no problem paying $650 for another new toy every 12-18 months that functions 95% the same as their nearly as good smartphone phone from 1-2 years ago.

On this very forum, people hype up i7 6700K to the moon and that chip is $420 US (on best seller's list!), a CPU for which you need to whip out MSI AB overlay/FRAPs/benchmarks to measure that's it's actually a measurable improvement over a nearly 3-year-old i7 4770K OC. So let me get this straight, 6-13% more CPU performance is worth $400+ US on a CPU chip alone, but $600 for something that is completely different to what we had for decades is too expensive?

The value of VR is not something that should be measured with FPS counters in the way we compare the value of GPUs.

"A new product progresses through a sequence of stages from introduction to growth, maturity, and decline. This sequence is known as the product life cycle and is associated with changes in the marketing situation, thus impacting the marketing strategy and the marketing mix."



Introduction Stage &#8211; This stage of the cycle could be the most expensive for a company launching a new product. The size of the market for the product is small, which means sales are low, although they will be increasing. On the other hand, the cost of things like research and development, consumer testing, and the marketing needed to launch the product can be very high, especially if it&#8217;s a competitive sector.
http://productlifecyclestages.com/

Everything that's happening with Oculus Rift is 100% normal for a new tech and honestly for someone who really cared that much about buying the Rift early at the best price, they should have Kickstarted it since they'd get the headset for free.

"As a small token of our appreciation for your support, all Kickstarter backers who pledged for a Rift development kit will get a free Kickstarter Edition Oculus Rift! And like all Rift pre-order purchasers, you&#8217;ll receive a bundled copy of Lucky&#8217;s Tale and EVE: Valkyrie."
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1523379957/oculus-rift-step-into-the-game/posts/1458224
 
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Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
7,357
20
81
It isn't optimal, but neither were older movies being digitized

Bad movie digitization = potentially vomit inducing figuratively
Bad VR implementation = potentially vomit inducing literally

The consequences of poorly implemented VR hack jobs are significantly higher.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
4,787
4,771
136
However, VR can be stitched into older games. Mod support for Skyrim and such is already here. It isn't optimal, but neither were older movies being digitized
I did not know this. Even if halfway decent, this might make a big difference in uptake.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,355
642
121
Hmm the ps3 launched at ~$600 and kinda bombed and then the ps4 launched at $399 and got applause(OK not the only reason). Point being pricing matters. Sometimes you just be wary of the scope creep and launch a focused product.

Why is this even $600? What are the component costs, manu costs etc.
The ps3 sold the same units as the Xbox 360 in the long run.... So you didn't really choose a good or relevant example.
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
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I've had some nasty things to say about VR in the past, re: vomit inducing experiences, but at least I can see where they are going, they have the potential to be a very disruptive tech for all media industries, not just gaming.

Game changer, to say the least.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
136
yeah car racing games are going to be the $#@@$!

I think you're right. Any cockpit style game, be it flying, cars or anything like that can be made awesome. Also, games will be developed with graphics that look like they are from the early 2000's. That's why people will be able to run the thing with an average rig.
 
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RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
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