(GURU3D RUMOR) AMD Polaris 10 GPU To Offer Near 980 Ti Performance For 299 USD?

[maddie]

I am saying something so straightforward that I am not even sure it's worth arguing over it. Complex chips have a ton of tweakable parameters and features. Moreover software (as in drivers) evolve, improve and can be tweaked to address architectural deficiencies, especially if your competitors is much better at something that can hurt you. Console developers have proved this a million times.

GPUs are an ever changing combination of *HW and SW*. When a chip is taped out you fix the vast majority of its degrees of freedom, but there are still hundreds left to play with.

Case 1: AMD tesselation performance HD5000 series

Case2: Nvidia shader and compute switch penalty [async shaders]

Exercise: Explain how software solved the respective deficiencies.

 

[tential]

HBM2 is a concrete example of perf/watt improvements, just as we saw with AMD last year. Even if the rest of the GPU stays the same, we can expect nice decreases there in power consumption and increase (or at least the same) in bandwidth.

I am sure more tweaks would be included, like how we saw the 6xx evolve into 7xx. Both were Kepler and there were some nice enhancements there in the 7-series. Plus, expect a more mature 16nm GPU process, which likely results in more efficient GPUs as well.

None of the items I listed above would be unique to NV. Same application for AMD...

So. You're saying tweaks to pascal should be equivalent to a whole new architecture from amd. Well I guess we'll see unless vega isn't new at all.

 

[rainy]

I think the big chips are going to be a fun filled treat. Hopefully more than 2X performance increase from 980ti/furyX and OCability through the roof!

This is what makes me curious - do you need such performance gains for those broken and buggy as hell games as they're lately?

 

[renderstate]

Case 1: AMD tesselation performance HD5000 series

Case2: Nvidia shader and compute switch penalty [async shaders]

Exercise: Explain how software solved the respective deficiencies.

Pointless straw-man argument. I haven't stated that *any* deficiency can be fixed in SW.

 

[moonbogg]

This is what makes me curious - do you need such performance gains for those broken and buggy as hell games as they're lately?

Do I need the power? I feel silly because I haven't even considered whether or not I need it. Perhaps I should reassess. OR maybe I'll just continue to freak out until the big chips show up!
I actually don't need it at all right now. Honestly for me it basically depends on how BF5 runs. My two GTX 670's were just fine for me for a long time. I skipped the 700 series and the first wave of the 900 series and didn't care. Then I upgraded to 1440p and actually needed (well, wanted) more performance at that res with my main game, BF4. So it depends on how BF5 performs actually. If it flies along with high FPS there is a good chance I will go into a long term coma and forget all about upgrading completely.

 

[tential]

Do I need the power? I feel silly because I haven't even considered whether or not I need it. Perhaps I should reassess. OR maybe I'll just continue to freak out until the big chips show up!
I actually don't need it at all right now. Honestly for me it basically depends on how BF5 runs. My two GTX 670's were just fine for me for a long time. I skipped the 700 series and the first wave of the 900 series and didn't care. Then I upgraded to 1440p and actually needed (well, wanted) more performance at that res with my main game, BF4. So it depends on how BF5 performs actually. If it flies along with high FPS there is a good chance I will go into a long term coma and forget all about upgrading completely.

Just go 4K already!

Haha, but do you need the power is not even a serious question. 4K resolution, VSR/DSR, I'll take EVERY SINGLE BIT of GPU horsepower I can if I can afford it.

If I could justify Quad Polaris 10, I would get it.

 

[Hitman928]

I am saying something so straightforward that I am not even sure it's worth arguing over it. Complex chips have a ton of tweakable parameters and features. Moreover software (as in drivers) evolve, improve and can be tweaked to address architectural deficiencies, especially if your competitors is much better at something that can hurt you. Console developers have proved this a million times.

GPUs are an ever changing combination of *HW and SW*. When a chip is taped out you fix the vast majority of its degrees of freedom, but there are still hundreds left to play with.

The problem isn't can it be improved, it's how much time will it take? Software changes can be comparatively quick, though I don't think you'd delay a launch unless there was a problem with the software, not to eek out an additional 5-10% that people will be expecting to happen periodically anyway.

Any changes to the hardware will add significant delay to the launch. The new design has to be verified, masks have to be generated, test chips have to be fabbed and then tested, all of which take time. Maybe there's some tweaks in the bios/microcode that could happen for a small bump, or maybe a clock bump if the designs have already been qualified for higher speeds, but other than that, you're delaying your product launch significantly. Waiting for your competitor to drop their product so that you can tweak yours is a losing strategy other than adjusting MSRP. Best thing to do would be to design an Ti edition or something to disrupt the market a few months down the line.

 

[maddie]

Pointless straw-man argument. I haven't stated that *any* deficiency can be fixed in SW.

This is what you wrote. "Software can be tweaked to address architectural deficiencies".

Not sometimes, in some cases, or even most cases. A very definitive statement. You certainly did not make the case that this does not always apply.

I simply pointed out 2 cases where your statement is false. There are more.

Moreover software (as in drivers) evolve, improve and can be tweaked to address architectural deficiencies, especially if your competitors is much better at something that can hurt you.

 

[renderstate]

This is what you wrote. "Software can be tweaked to address architectural deficiencies".

Not sometimes, in some cases, or even most cases. A very definitive statement. You certainly did not make the case that this does not always apply.

I simply pointed out 2 cases where your statement is false. There are more.

I hope moderators can also stop behavior like this. Twisting people's word just to have a pointless argument is not only boring, it really takes away the fun of having a discussion with somebody online.

 

[TypoFairy©]

Do I need the power? I feel silly because I haven't even considered whether or not I need it. Perhaps I should reassess. OR maybe I'll just continue to freak out until the big chips show up!
I actually don't need it at all right now. Honestly for me it basically depends on how BF5 runs. My two GTX 670's were just fine for me for a long time. I skipped the 700 series and the first wave of the 900 series and didn't care. Then I upgraded to 1440p and actually needed (well, wanted) more performance at that res with my main game, BF4. So it depends on how BF5 performs actually. If it flies along with high FPS there is a good chance I will go into a long term coma and forget all about upgrading completely.

Although I find myself pretty hyped for Pascal vs Polaris information I'm not really sure if this tug of war matters for me in the near future. End of the year I'll probably build my first from the ground up new rig in a while. Been doing a lot of semi patchwork style micro updates. What might force a gpu upgrade on me early is the availability / price of good freesync HDR screens. I'm DIEING for a better screen. At the moment I'm using a dilapidated old tn 1080p screen. I'm sure this screen was junk even when it was new. I think I chose ramen over a respectable screen at the time(stupid body needing sustenance). So here's to hoping I can handle the end boss that is the HDR waiting game and hopefully it doesn't leave me in absolute poverty. :3

 

[moonbogg]

The 20th person to vote the last poll option will go down in history as the meanest SOB in the history of the planet.

Also, regarding the post above ^ having a good screen is a big deal. You are right to set your sights on the HDR screens coming out. They should be very interesting indeed.

regarding 4K...I would need quad big Pascal power to manage 4K with todays games. 4K is so far in the future for me. If I could wire up EIGHT 980ti's and get 100% scaling, then I might get a 4K screen and be able to break 60fps.

 

[moonbogg]

OK who the hell was it? Who did that? Mean clown #20 has entered the building.

 

[Magee_MC]

The 20th person to vote the last poll option will go down in history as the meanest SOB in the history of the planet.

In my best Wesley voice, "As you wish."

 

[moonbogg]

In my best Wesley voice, "As you wish."

OMG it was you. I condemn you to a lifetime of buggy drivers and Nvidia style performance neglect for all yer gaming career.

 

[Magee_MC]

OMG it was you. I condemn you to a lifetime of buggy drivers and Nvidia style performance neglect for all yer gaming career.

So then, situation unchanged.

 

[Makaveli]

http://www.techspot.com/news/64679-amd-polaris-10-performance-reportedly-par-390-390x.html

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/40585-amd-polaris-10-packs-390-performance

http://www.techpowerup.com/222156/amd-radeon-r9-480-non-x-performs-close-to-r9-390x#comments

 

[maddie]

I hope moderators can also stop behavior like this. Twisting people's word just to have a pointless argument is not only boring, it really takes away the fun of having a discussion with somebody online.

Keep cool. No insult intended.

If you post something here, everyone has the option to respond, and once they follow the rules, it's allowed. You don't have to like or agree with their post or they with yours. if you want a private discussion, go to PM with the other party.

 

[moonbogg]

http://www.techspot.com/news/64679-amd-polaris-10-performance-reportedly-par-390-390x.html

I bet that $300 ends up being lower. That's too expensive to really rock the market. $250 and that thing will sell like crazy.

 

[Makaveli]

I bet that $300 ends up being lower. That's too expensive to really rock the market. $250 and that thing will sell like crazy.

Agree with you 100% but with markups MSRP maybe $300 I can see it going even higher once the re-sellers get their hands on it.

 

[Det0x]

I hope moderators can also stop behavior like this. Twisting people's word just to have a pointless argument is not only boring, it really takes away the fun of having a discussion with somebody online.

So you start a argument with some false/incorrect statements, and when you get caught/corrected you ask for the moderators to silence the other guy ? :'(

On a other note, this should not come as a surprise, as it's the tried and proven tactic used by the SJW in recent times

On-topic:

Currently there is 58.02% (76 votes) for "The rumor is too optimistic. I expect less performance in that price range"

What performance do you guys expect from the top P10 SKU ? 390x, 390, 380x, 380 or even 370 ? ()

 

[krumme]

Nv and market will mostly decide the pricing - not amd.

Edit: for the desktop. At mobile its more disruptive as amd did not really have ANY competitor here.
Amd really needs those small and lean cards asap. Their mobile market as well as mainstrean is a trainwreck.

 

[airfathaaaaa]

Nv and market will mostly decide the pricing - not amd.

Edit: for the desktop. At mobile its more disruptive as amd did not really have ANY competitor here.
Amd really needs those small and lean cards asap. Their mobile market as well as mainstrean is a trainwreck.

how nvidia will control the price if amd launched a 390x capable of perf for 300?
nvidia always prices more for the next gen i fail to see them launching a card on a bigger node so aggresively

 

[maddie]

Nv and market will mostly decide the pricing - not amd.

Edit: for the desktop. At mobile its more disruptive as amd did not really have ANY competitor here.
Amd really needs those small and lean cards asap. Their mobile market as well as mainstrean is a trainwreck.

If AMD is competitive, we will see how much market share is worth to Nvidia vs margins. A war might be brewing.

 

[moonbogg]

Nv and market will mostly decide the pricing - not amd.

Edit: for the desktop. At mobile its more disruptive as amd did not really have ANY competitor here.
Amd really needs those small and lean cards asap. Their mobile market as well as mainstrean is a trainwreck.

Of course that's the elephant in the room that at least I have been trying to ignore. We expect AMD to have a good card, but Nvidia is not a pushover here. They will do what is necessary to combat a good card, so this should be interesting. I think in this price bracket, which ever card comes in cheaper will simply sell more. A lot of young people and their parents will be buying these, and that usually means the cheaper, yet still comparable in terms of performance card gets purchased more often.

 

[Game_dev]

Correct.

AMD's mid-range and high-end VEGA is not ready. Pretty sure AMD made it very clear on their roadmap.

NV is going for the mid-range first, AMD going for entry & mainstream first.

Going by the current rumors:

1080 = high end market
1070 = mainstream market
1060 = mid-range

Polaris will compete with the 1060

Vega will compete with 1080 next year but NVIDIA will have a new card as well.