[H] SLI vs Crossfire GTX 780 OC 6GB vs. R9 290X 4GB Overclocked at 4K

[blackened23]

I've tried. I show benchmarks data etc.
The other person just days 780ti nvidia and they win. No amount of data sways people minds. They just will always prefer nvidia.
Been trying on Mon dedicated hardware forums to help hardware noobs out but no one cares abut benchmarks bro. Just nvidias most expensive card they can afford or nothing.

Probably because:

1) Most (<.5%) of people aren't running 4k due to being limited to 60hz, needing 2 GPUs for the best experience, etc. Not to mention the DPI scaling issue in Windows for 4k resolution cannot be understated. DPI scaling in Windows at this time is borked. Also, 780/780ti is a better card at other resolutions, albeit the 290/290x is a better value and extremely competitive. The 780ti/780 also has a FAR better reference cooler, and blower coolers are significantly better than aftermarket for SLI, crossfire, or for extreme SFF's.
2) A lot of people like NV features/software, especially if not running 4k resolution (most aren't running 4k). Stuff like downsampling, monitor OC'ing, driver AO, without requiring a 3rd party utility.
3) It's going to take several years for AMD to change their tarnished image from bad software support in years past, although they are better now. Much better with the 290 series.


Basically, Nvidia earned their reputation by investing a lot in software. Obviously AMD shines at 4k, I imagine that was a focus on their software development with the 290.. As of now, that's an extreme niche. But if AMD continues their software investment momentum maybe they can come closer to parity with nvidia's market share, which I would like to happen.

Remember ATI at one time was the market leader. AMD/ATI was the market leader when the 5870 launched. What happened? Several years of not having the halo GPU and continually investing less in their software development. The launch software situation for the Tahiti was laughably pathetic taking years to fix, AMD can't repeat that, AMD paid the price for that. While some here would blame websites instead of AMD, the fact of the matter is that there were many software bugs that took 1 year+ for AMD to fix. That isn't acceptable, and hopefully will never happen again. Nv isn't perfect by any means, but right now they're still better (without taking years to fix stuff), although AMD is finally putting up some good work on the software end. Their 4k performance is great, no question. Anyway....hats off to AMD for the 4k xfire performance and hopefully they invest even more into the software development end of things.

That's my theory after having a really bad (HORRIBLY BAD) experience with EF during the Tahiti era with AMD (while my NV experience has not been perfect, but worlds better...), but I am pleased that AMD's software dev is improving. AMD is awesome with CF and surround now, that's great for high end competition. Software wise...I feel like i'm not the only one who feels this way, I certainly am not against buying AMD but in my mind they have to prove themselves and prove themselves consistently in the experience/software department. 4k focus with the 290 cards, and improved CF is a good start. Maybe next gen more will come together. As of right now, I very much prefer NV's features but hopefully AMD will continue doing the right things to change their reputation.

 

[wand3r3r]

Probably because:

1) Most (<.5%) of people aren't running 4k due to being limited to 60hz, needing 2 GPUs for the best experience, etc. Not to mention the DPI scaling issue in Windows for 4k resolution cannot be understated. DPI scaling in Windows at this time is borked. Also, 780/780ti is a better card at other resolutions, albeit the 290/290x is a better value and extremely competitive. The 780ti/780 also has a FAR better reference cooler, and blower coolers are significantly better than aftermarket for SLI, crossfire, or for extreme SFF's.

"Most" people aren't buying 290/x, nor 780/ti. Who is buying 4k, obviously those same high end GPU buyers.

2) A lot of people like NV features/software, especially if not running 4k resolution (most aren't running 4k). Stuff like downsampling, monitor OC'ing, driver AO, without requiring a 3rd party utility.

"A lot" sounds like a made up statistic which cannot be proven.

3) It's going to take several years for AMD to change their tarnished image from bad software support in years past, although they are better now. Much better with the 290 series.

Basically, Nvidia earned their reputation by investing a lot in software. Obviously AMD shines at 4k, I imagine that was a focus on their software development with the 290.. As of now, that's an extreme niche. But if AMD continues their software investment momentum maybe they can come closer to parity with nvidia's market share, which I would like to happen.

Remember ATI at one time was the market leader. AMD/ATI was the market leader when the 5870 launched. What happened? Several years of not having the halo GPU and continually investing less in their software development. The launch software situation for the Tahiti was laughably pathetic taking years to fix, AMD can't repeat that, AMD paid the price for that. While some here would blame websites instead of AMD, the fact of the matter is that there were many software bugs that took 1 year+ for AMD to fix. That isn't acceptable, and hopefully will never happen again. Nv isn't perfect by any means, but right now they're still better (without taking years to fix stuff), although AMD is finally putting up some good work on the software end. Their 4k performance is great, no question. Anyway....hats off to AMD for the 4k xfire performance and hopefully they invest even more into the software development end of things.

That's my theory after having a really bad (HORRIBLY BAD) experience with EF during the Tahiti era with AMD (while my NV experience has not been perfect, but worlds better...), but I am pleased that AMD's software dev is improving. AMD is awesome with CF and surround now, that's great for high end competition. Software wise...I feel like i'm not the only one who feels this way, I certainly am not against buying AMD but in my mind they have to prove themselves and prove themselves consistently in the experience/software department. 4k focus with the 290 cards, and improved CF is a good start. Maybe next gen more will come together. As of right now, I very much prefer NV's features but hopefully AMD will continue doing the right things to change their reputation.

Let's see, however, contrary to your proposal I suspect people simply buy NV cards regardless simply because it's what they are familiar with and since they apparently have almost 2/3 of the market, it's twice as likely their going to be recommended an NV gpu by somebody who doesn't know better (e.g. if they are ridiculously priced or under perform the competition) or has a green gpu in the end.

I hope both companies remain dedicated to providing good software. At least AMD is responding to criticism and has been improving e.g. crossfire to new levels. Now if only NV would hear the criticism on their pricing.

 

[kasakka]

One thing rarely mentioned is that if you want to run a Hackintosh (Mac OSX on a PC) like I do, Nvidia is a far better choice. With AMD cards you run into strange issues like certain outputs not working etc. With Nvidia, no problems whatsoever.

My current beefs with Nvidia are that their GPU scaling [is inferior] (much blurrier picture than with my Dell's display scaler) and their insistence on keeping old ports on cards. I'd rather see more Displayports and maybe only one dual link DVI-I as active dual link adapters for DP are expensive.

Please use language appropriate for a technical forum.
-- stahlhart

 

[RussianSensation]

I think there is another factor not being discussed: upgrade budget. In the past, like clock work, I upgraded my CPU platform to get more performance every 2 years at minimum: Athlon XP--> P4 C --> C2D --> C2Q --> i7 860 --> 2500k. This meant that every 2 years I would at minimum buy a new CPU+ Mobo, often new CPU cooler and new RAM too. All of a sudden, I no longer upgrade the CPU platform since there is almost no benefit for games. In 2013 it was 2 years since 2500K and I spent $0 on a new CPU, new mobo, new cooler, new RAM. In 2015 it will be 4 years and there is a chance I still won't upgrade the CPU. That's going to be 4 straight years of no money spent on the primary platform, unheard of in the past. All of a sudden I have all my upgrade budget sitting there doing nothing. The 3 areas that benefit the most are a larger SSD and a faster GPU or a new monitor.

Gamers nowadays have more $ left over to upgrade the GPUs since they no longer have to upgrade the main platform every 2 years. In the past if their upgrade budget was $1000 every 2 years, it meant that you had to pick and choose how to spend your money.

Now it's more how to spend $1,000 on GPU/SSD. All of a sudden, the gamer isn't really comparing price/performance per say but what's the best they can get for this budget. 780 in SLI fits the bill so they get that.

I don't think they sit there comparing OC vs. OC results vs. 290 or even know how to overclock their 1440p monitor. It's more of "I used NV for XX years and they have been good. I hear they make the fastest and most efficient GPUs and SLI is better than CF, so 780 SLI". The decision is probably 5-10 min for them. In the past, price/performance mattered a lot more because we had to fit a full platform upgrade + GPUs. Now you can just buy a 4790K, set it to 4.7Ghz and just upgrade the GPUs for the next 5 years.

A lot of times people say I have $400 or $500 to spend on a GPU. How many times did we see threads where people said 7970 / 290 is "hot and loud" or in general "I heard AMD cards run way hotter and louder than NV"? Most consumers don't read reviews on aftermarket cards comparing their coolers. Heck, most people who google reviews probably read old or even launch reviews of reference cards because those get the most hits and come up on search higher up.

If you don't do any research, you would think that in the last 5 years all AMD cards universally ran hot, loud and consumed way more power than NV equivalents. These same consumers get nervous using an AMD card with their 500W PSU since they think the computer will blow up.

The mainstream media for sure portrays reference cards as often representative of that product. Remember Fermi? A great card, awesome overclocker but the mainstream media painted this card as hot, loud and power hungry, completely ignoring that after market cards like Zotac AMP! 480 ran uber cool, quiet and overclocked like a beast! Yet almost universally the excellent 480 was criticized and barely better 580 was hyped. In hindsight, an aftermarket OC 580 didn't last any longer than an aftermarket OC 480. These users upgraded to the 780/780Ti anyway. The minor performance and power consumption difference of an aftermarket 580 over 480 was just a waste of money. See a lot of it is just perception because 580 sold much better but in retrospect wasn't a much better videocard.

I remember after market 480 was selling for $299 when 580 was $499. Most people buy on pure perception (image and marketing). If not, almost no one in their right mind would have bought a 580 when after market 480 was $300. This same negative perception on heat, power usage and noise levels, coupled with horrible reference cooler of AMD is really what has hurt them the most. How many after market 7950/7970 cards / roundups did AnandTech run after they reviewed the reference 7950/7970 cards? 0.

We know most people don't buy $1000 in GPUs so AMD's performance in CF for 7970s can't be a factor since it would only affect less than 5% of PC gamers. But when a launch review shows 660Ti spanking a garbage reference 7950 V2, that's what the average gamer remembers. I mean does anyone recommend a 660Ti vs. R9 280 right now? Of course not and get R9 280 = 7950V2 and 660Ti was widely recommended back then. Now it's clear that R9 280 OC trades blows with 770/R9 280X not some slow 660Ti.

Looking at how well 750Ti or 650Ti sold is telling since both of those cards have poor performance compared to competition from AMD. Perception is that SLI > than CF and the average gamer won't care about HardOCP's results especially since they are near the end of this generation. Since NV wins hands down on perception and since people's GPU upgrade budgets went way up due, it makes sense why NV is selling more expensive cards like hot cakes.

 

[blackened23]

You continually suggest that dirt cheap pricing is the ONLY factor in a purchase. That is not the case. AMD is paying the price for truly horrible software support in the past, although they are making amends and trying to correct it now. Nobody wants to buy a card with great performance per dollar if it has issues. That's really all there is to it. I don't care if a card is 100$ cheaper if i'm continually annoyed with BSODs while doing youtube videos, new driver installs that reboot me to a black screen, PC freezing while waking from sleep, that's just ANNOYING. Nobody wants to buy that crap even if it is cheaper.

These are problems that AMD has had in the past and to a much lesser extent now. That DIRECTLY affects the market price and what consumers are willing to pay: They are trying to fix things it seems like, as the 290 cards are much better in this respect. Let's not kid ourselves into believing that price is all that matters. There were some very real issues that took 1+ year to fix with the Tahiti generation and there is no amount of cheap-ness which makes a card with issues being desirable. NV isn't perfect either. IMHO, they are better though.

Good news is, like I said, AMD seems to be making a focused effort to improve. I guarantee if they're ever at parity with NV in terms of software and features that they will charge more. They tried with the Tahiti, although their software development with that card was so sub-par at launch.

So here's hoping AMD continues their push towards a better experience and better software development. I think their crossfire implementation and 4k software focus with the 290 cards is pretty darn awesome. That spells better competition which is better for all of us. Nvidia needs to step it up in terms of 4k SLI performance, no doubt about it (although I would argue that the 780/ti cards are better at other resolutions). So hats off to AMD for that, it's a good start in what they need to do for many months/years to come.

Oh yeah. As far as the "hot and loud" thing. I criticized the GTX 480 for the same reason. I considered the 5870 to be a more well rounded card despite the performance being 15% lower than the 480 - heat and noise matter to a lot of folks. Yes, you can correct it with an aftermarket design on the GTX 480 just like you can with the 290, yet not everyone can use aftermarket designs. For SLI, crossfire, extreme SFFs, and other designs, blowers are preferable. Some people can get aftermarket to work in multi GPU but in my experience, it was a pain in the neck when the top card slowly roasts over time and causes instability after 30 minutes of gaming with 90C GPU temps. That's why blowers exist - because OEMs generally *only* use blowers and most form factors with mGPU are far better with blowers. So AMD got the criticism they deserved with their 290 blower, just like GTX 480 received *just* criticism for being hot and loud. Good news? AMD probably will not repeat this mistake. It takes the press making a lot of noise for AMD to take action with software bugs and hardware design issues, but i'm sure the 390 won't have such a terrible blower as the 290 did.

 

[mrmt]

A lot of times people say I have $400 or $500 to spend on a GPU. How many times did we see threads where people said 7970 / 290 is "hot and loud" or in general "I heard AMD cards run way hotter and louder than NV"? Most consumers don't read reviews on aftermarket cards comparing their coolers. Heck, most people who google reviews probably read old or even launch reviews of reference cards because those get the most hits and come up on search higher up.

I think AMD is getting what it deserves. It was a business decision to give the 290 a crappy reference design (probably in order to achieve a lower MRSP/higher margin). AMD could have spent a bit more on reference design and get praised by the press. It's always the same, AMD provides products with very good engineering but atrocious marketing business package, and given their latest actions (Richard Huddy FUD, Mantle, ifitcanreachthespace, etc), I don't think they have a clue on how to fix it.

 

[SlowSpyder]

It is interesting that AMD and NV have basically traded places over the frame stutter issue now at 4K resolution. It's also interesting the price point these 6GB cards command over a 290X and how that extra VRAM is really not that well utilized for 4K gaming.

I'm curious if anyone here bought an NV card for 4K gaming? and if so, why?

Hopefully the new reference high end Maxwell based NV cards come with adequate VRAM for 4K gaming and have the stutter issue resolved.

4K is the whole reason for the 6gig. 3gig wouldn't have been enough. So, in this instance 6 gig does matter.

780 still looses to 290X at lower res too. The 780 trades blows with the 290 non X @ 1080.

I doubt the GPU's are really strong enough to fully utilize 6GB. But, they are strong enough that they can use >3GB effectively. So even if the 6GB vram can't be fully used effectively, there are probably a handful of situations where there is a benefit from having more than 3GB.

 

[RussianSensation]

I don't care if a card is 100$ cheaper if i'm continually annoyed with BSODs while doing youtube videos, new driver installs that reboot me to a black screen, PC freezing while waking from sleep, that's just ANNOYING. Nobody wants to buy that crap even if it is cheaper.

.

I have used NV and AMD since Radeon 128 Pro days. Never had BSOD with either brand watching YouTube, never had wake from sleep issues with either brand, never had driver installs reboot me to black screen. The issues you list don't apply to thousands of people so please don't make statements especially for single GPUs as if they have 100% prevalence on AMD cards. Not only did I never have any of the problems you just listed, but it seems you somehow managed to have all of them at once with your 7970. At one point ATI/AMD even had nearly 50% market share. If AMD cards were as horrible as you keep painting them and NV as near perfect as you keep portraying them, AMD would have 5-10% market share at most. According to you every single AMD card up to 290 was basically plagued with constant issues. Did you actually own every generation of ATI/AMD card in the last 15 years to imply such conclusions ?

Also, after owning 470 SLI and 6950 reference, I will never buy a blower card. They are honestly very poor when all is said and done - loud, worse overclockers, get even louder and hotter once overclocked, and especially in NV's case tend to use cheap components. Maybe you have a case with poor airflow which definitely explains why you had the top card hitting 90C. My open air 7970s even when overclocked run way quieter than 470 blowers. I've seen people with 3 and even 4 MSI Lightning 7970, many people with dual Asus DCUII 670/680s. You constantly keep stating that blowers are better for SLI/CF but that's also not backed up by real world usage. In a modern case with great airflow, let's take 2 Sapphire Tri-X 290s or Gigabyte Windforce 3X 780Tis and compare them to their reference versions. The after market cards will blow the reference ones away in noise, temperatures and overclocking headroom.

Even the highly touted reference Titan cooler is still pretty poor. Even with just 1 card, at max overclock to keep temperatures below 80C throttling level, you need to operate it at 4000 rpm - jet engine - while an aftermarket cooler such as Gigabyte Windforce 3X has a whopping 20C headroom to find a balance of temperatures and noise levels. With a reference card let's see how loud 780Tin is at 1176mhz:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/gr...orce-gtx-titan-black-ghz-edition_4.html#sect0

Again if a PC gamer buys a Fractal R4 case and puts 2 aftermarket cards in a mobo that doesn't have triple slot spacing between the 2 cards and then complains the top card overheats, it's 100% his fault because that's not how to put together such a setup. You need think about these things. It's only when going with 3 cards that serious problems arise in a mid-tower. Otherwise, 2 aftermarket open air cards in a modern case with good airflow will run both cooler and quieter than reference blowers. But how many PC gamers research benchmarks of case temperatures before they buy their new case? Hardly any:

http://www.techspot.com/review/846-silverstone-rv05/page4.html

You know how many times on our forum a user would complain about how hot and loud their single open air card runs? Then when they finally listen and get a proper case, they can't believe how quiet that same card becomes. The difference is a reference blower will never be quiet once you overclock the card. Aftermarket open air cards can be whisper quiet.

 

[toyota]

it certainly appears that AMD has more quirky issues many of which have been happening for years. I encountered some of those little issues myself on every AMD system I have used which is why I only use Nvidia now.

and the ti throttles at 83 not 80 plus you can set it to throttle at a higher temp which would keep the fans quiet.

 

[RussianSensation]

RussianSensation, the ti throttles at 83 not 80 plus you can set it to throttle at a higher temp which would keep the fans quiet.

Please read the Xbitlabs review. Titan Black with auto fan control hit 87C at 3420 rpm. They hit 77C while at 4280 RPM. At similar RPM, the Windforce 3X was nearly 20C cooler. It's impossible for 2 reference 780Tis to run cooler and quieter in SLI in a proper case than 2 of these Windforce cards once both are max overclocked to 1150mhz. Check any review you want of cards like MSI Gaming 780 or Sapphire Tri-X 290, a reference blower will never compete on noise levels or temperatures unless someone sandwiches 3-4 cards or puts this in some small case with horrible airflow. It's either user error for not picking the right components or a perpetuating myth that keeps being parroted around.

Even at max load a card like MSI Gaming 780 is only producing 30 dB while operating at 73C. That's quieter than a reference 660Ti/760 at idle:
http://www.techpowerup.com/mobile/reviews/MSI/GTX_780_TF_Gaming/25.html

This means you can manually lower the RPM even more and hit 80C. Dual reference 780s have no chance of touching the noise levels of MSI gaming 780 SLI in a proper setup.

That's not even discussing cards like MSI Lightning or Asus Matrix that will embarrass 2 reference Titan coolers. The irony is that people keep buying cases with horrible airflow or refuse to upgrade to a modern case but then spend $800-1000 on reference blower cards and justify them because they think that after-market open air cards will overheat.

 

[toyota]

of course its not as good as the aftermarket coolers but I am just saying you can simply raise the temp limit if you have one.

 

[Attic]

I don't think the myth that drivers are a reason to buy one brand or another is a good way to push brand loyalty. Somewhat frustrating to see the same garbage continually rehashed. I've had issues with improper Vsync implementation on previous nVidia set ups, but I don't trash threads by belaboring on the times I had problems with nvidias drivers. I just accept that on occasion there will be issues with drivers from BOTH sides that get worked through.

Too expensive and questionable to fall for that driver nonsense and end up avoiding getting the best card/s for your money.

 

[3DVagabond]

I doubt the GPU's are really strong enough to fully utilize 6GB. But, they are strong enough that they can use >3GB effectively. So even if the 6GB vram can't be fully used effectively, there are probably a handful of situations where there is a benefit from having more than 3GB.

That was exactly my point. People immediately jump on, "you don't need 6gig" BS trying to discredit the review in the hope to make the whole comparison irrelevant on a perf/$. The reality is to get more than 3gig from nVidia, which is shown useful in the context of the review, means you get 6 gig. AMD's design with 4 gig was simply more forward thinking. nVidia purposely does this so you will have to upgrade sooner. Then they go on and on about some personally perceived software advantage that doesn't exist, topped off by some bad crossfire experience they had with release drivers a few years ago. We'll continue the BS with 4K not being relevant, and let's throw in the bad performing reference cooler that really isn't relevant at all to the review. The FUD machine churns away. All of this to avoid concentrating on the actual results of the review, AMD was faster and cost less. In reality their drivers and crossfire perform better and their software, Mantle, is also superior.

 

[tential]

I've had quirks with my AMD system but if I had a choice between the R9 290 and the GTX 780Ti it's not even hard. Yet almost EVERY time I see the 780ti recommended, it's for a gamer who has never built their own PC before (I'm talking on other forums here). They have 0 knowledge of PC hardware going in.
I don't see how a 780Ti should ever be recommended over an R9 290 for the gamer who has never built a PC, yet I see it almost every single build on MULTIPLE forums. Besides my quirks getting audio to work with my HD7950 through HDMI with my surround sound setup, I haven't had issues.

Maybe it's just that I don't have a lot of disposable income currently, but I can't see how people are willing to pay $200 extra dollars (50% more) for a card that delivers at most 20% performance for anyone other than the high end enthusiast who cares about performance bar none. I understand that person and that person posts on a tech forum.

But for the gamers I'm talking about who have 0 idea what they're doing (Can't pick compatible mobo/cpu combo, have 0 idea what difference is between $200 mobo and $100 mobo so they purchase extremely expensive mobos because "It costs more so it must better!" etc.) People who have never read a review in their life on a serious tech forum?

There isn't a reason to me for that person to get a GTX 780ti. That person will never fully utilize it, and they'll never say to themselves "Wow, I'm so happy I spent $200 extra. BF4 is so smooth now!"

All ill informed decisions do is encourage Nvidia to continue noncompetitive pricing. 780Ti should be far cheaper than it is but I actually think they could charge $50 more and still make the SAME amount of sales from what I've seen. People just don't care what they have to pay to get it, it's the only card they want.

Edit: When talking builds in the $1500 range where the GTX 780Ti can be purchased.

 

[RussianSensation]

But for the gamers I'm talking about who have 0 idea what they're doing (Can't pick compatible mobo/cpu combo, have 0 idea what difference is between $200 mobo and $100 mobo so they purchase extremely expensive mobos because "It costs more so it must better!" etc.) People who have never read a review in their life on a serious tech forum?

There isn't a reason to me for that person to get a GTX 780ti. That person will never fully utilize it, and they'll never say to themselves "Wow, I'm so happy I spent $200 extra. BF4 is so smooth now!"

.

You hit the nail on the head. Excellent post. When I just got into PC gaming, I read reviews but not enough to understand how product segmentation worked. For example, as a noob, I would read a review of a flagship Asus board and it of course would get a 9-9.5/10. Other mobos would only get 8-8.5 but the reality is all these extra features on the $300 board I never ended up using. It just felt good knowing I bought near the best mobo even though I had no idea what that meant in practice.

It's the same thing with 780Ti vs. 780Ghz for new PC gamers. No matter how many benchmarks you show them that these 2 cards perform very close and that in practice they won't tell the difference at 1080p, they don't care. They just want to know they have the best, don't even think that for nearly the same price dual 290s beat this card by miles. To them AMD is a budget brand. This same user will keep this card for 5 years while the smarter gamer who bought a $350 290, will sell it and upgrade 1-2 more times to next gen products. The 20-25% advantage now will end up with the 2nd gamer having 30-40% more performance from 2015-2017, then 2x or more the performance from 2017-2019. Unless the person has a lot of disposable income, he shouldn't be considering a card like 480/580/680/780Ti for his first gaming build unless there is some large sale. In practice this gamer who is just getting into PC gaming won't know the difference between those cards and 470/570/670/780Ghz.

Other than enthusiasts who will sell 780Ti and try to recoup as much value as possible and move on to the next best card, as a PC gamer becomes more experienced he will learn that buying flagships is a waste of money. 4 years after 480 came out, you can get a card faster for $150 that uses a fraction of the power. Those who buy a 780Ti and keep it for 5 years are just wasting their money.

That doesn't explain all other cheaper cards though. Most of the market doesn't overclock (which made 5850/7950/7970 hot cards), can't flash BIOS to unlock shaders (aka 6950), wouldn't know what bitcoin mining was/how to set it up. To get the most out of AMD products, you have to tweak them and buy the right SKU. If you purchase a reference AMD card, that's a poor product for the most part. If you would have gotten a 5850/6950/7950/7970 and just left them stock, it was nothing special. Since most PC gamers do not overclock/unlock, it makes sense why NV keeps being more obvious since their AIBs offer more aggressive overclocks out is the box. Also, people seem to be obsessed with EVGA. Best selling SKUs on Amazon are from EVGA. I bet there is a large part of the market which doesn't consider AMD at all because they will only buy EVGA. While XFX has an even better warranty than EVGA, their coolers during 7000 generation were poor and their brand image perception is nowhere near EVGA.


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Back to topic: Not only at 4K, but 290X crossfire also won against 780 6GB SLI in multi-monitor gaming:
http://m.hardocp.com/article/2014/0...0_oc_6gb_sli_video_card_review/5#.U9TArIkazCQ