H1B Visas banned under Tarp

[da loser]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123672890680789063.html

saw this on CNN

sponsored by Vermont Independent Bernie Sanders and Iowa Republican Chuck Grassley, is "to prohibit any recipient of TARP funding from hiring H-1B visa holders

Bank of America, citing a provision of the stimulus package that became law last month, is rescinding job offers to foreign-born students graduating from U.S. business schools this summer.

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This is just dumb. keeping educated people here in the US is smart whether they be engineers, scientists, doctors, or business people.

why we turn away smart people and let in cheap illegal immigrants by the millions is dumb.

 

[Hacp]

There are already plenty of engineers, scientists, and business people that were laid off. Send those foreigners back to their countries and lets hire American workers.

 

[Farang]

goddamn populists

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: da loser
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123672890680789063.html

saw this on CNN

sponsored by Vermont Independent Bernie Sanders and Iowa Republican Chuck Grassley, is "to prohibit any recipient of TARP funding from hiring H-1B visa holders

Bank of America, citing a provision of the stimulus package that became law last month, is rescinding job offers to foreign-born students graduating from U.S. business schools this summer.

-------

This is just dumb. keeping educated people here in the US is smart whether they be engineers, scientists, doctors, or business people.

why we turn away smart people and let in cheap illegal immigrants by the millions is dumb.

Why do we need to outsource our education and knowledge also? Shouldn't we direct the demand for educated and skilled people at our own institutions of education?

 

[mugs]

Pretty much. It's hard to claim you can't find any qualified American workers when so many educated and experienced American workers are unemployed. A lot of companies game the system so they can hire foreigners and pay them less than they'd pay Americans (illegally). In effect, the government is subsidizing those cheaper foreign workers by paying unemployment benefits to the American worker they displaced.

 

[extra]

If they are getting free money from american citizens then they must hire american citizens? I don't really see a problem with this lol.

 

[da loser]

these are intelligent people that could be put to use here instead of over there.

it's not a zero sum game. reducing the price of labor creates more opportunities, not less.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: da loser
these are intelligent people that could be put to use here instead of over there.

it's not a zero sum game. reducing the price of labor creates more opportunities, not less.

Yes, but it also creates its own problems, such as reduced reliance and demand from our own educational institutions.

Why should our schools try more if they aren't expected to?

Why should our people try harder if they aren't expected to?

 

[MovingTarget]

Good. I know that having foreign workers over here is a net positive during most times, but with the current economic situation and flooded labor pool this is a good idea. Our own needs as citizens must come first.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Idiots, those are not illegal immigrants working during the day and gangbanging during the nights. Those are often the best minds countries like China, India and others have to offer. They are there because American companies wanted them there. They are not cheaper - on the contrary, sometimes they are paid prohibitive relocation costs.
Instead of building the economies in their countries, they came to build American companies, and you're driving them away? Good job there.

Ever been to the Silicon Valley? How many H1B workers there? Would you at such times displace all of them in favor of American workers?

I'm all for tough action against illegal immigrants, but those who are skilled and have a positive effect on the economy should stay.

I'd wish countries such as India and China retaliated with banning those companies from doing business on their land. But then, why would they? The excellent workforce now remains in their countries instead of going to the USA.
Do you even know the prerequisites for H1Bs?

Socialistic, protective crap. Bunch of idiots, as I said.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Good. I know that having foreign workers over here is a net positive during most times, but with the current economic situation and flooded labor pool this is a good idea. Our own needs as citizens must come first.

Careful for what you wish for as you just might get it. You seem to assume that if these people are not here working, they are not working at all. This people on h1b visas are educated and will be working utilizing their skills in low wage countries. This just means even more low wage competition against US companies by foreign firms.

 

[Hacp]

I agree. We should give these H1B guys a plane ticket out of the country asap. All companies ever do with H1bs is hire them for 1/2 of what an American worker would work for.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Good. I know that having foreign workers over here is a net positive during most times, but with the current economic situation and flooded labor pool this is a good idea. Our own needs as citizens must come first.

Careful for what you wish for as you just might get it. You seem to assume that if these people are not here working, they are not working at all. This people on h1b visas are educated and will be working utilizing their skills in low wage countries. This just means even more low wage competition against US companies by foreign firms.

I'm not assuming that at all. I know many people from other countries that are over here in grad school right now who would love to work here post-graduation. However, times being what they are I think we can draw a line for those companies who are on TARP. Those companies aren't ones I'd be too terribly worried about when it comes to foreign cheap competition. These guys aren't engineers, physicists, doctors, professors, etc. which really do boost our nation's competitiveness. They are financiers/bankers/etc., which doesn't worry me so much. With the labor pool like it is, we have a huge surplus of talent in these areas.

I am in no way advocating for an elimination of the H1-B program. The H1-B program is oft-abused not because companies need the talent of foreign workers, but to depress wages. It needs reform, not elimination.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Good. I know that having foreign workers over here is a net positive during most times, but with the current economic situation and flooded labor pool this is a good idea. Our own needs as citizens must come first.

Careful for what you wish for as you just might get it. You seem to assume that if these people are not here working, they are not working at all. This people on h1b visas are educated and will be working utilizing their skills in low wage countries. This just means even more low wage competition against US companies by foreign firms.

I'm not assuming that at all. I know many people from other countries that are over here in grad school right now who would love to work here post-graduation. However, times being what they are I think we can draw a line for those companies who are on TARP. Those companies aren't ones I'd be too terribly worried about when it comes to foreign cheap competition. These guys aren't engineers, physicists, doctors, professors, etc. which really do boost our nation's competitiveness. They are financiers/bankers/etc., which doesn't worry me so much. With the labor pool like it is, we have a huge surplus of talent in these areas.

I am in no way advocating for an elimination of the H1-B program. The H1-B program is oft-abused not because companies need the talent of foreign workers, but to depress wages. It needs reform, not elimination.

I am not sure how much h1b depress wages in the US. They may be paid less, but not significantly less. But I will agree it is difficult in the IT field to find the talent you are looking for as there are so many technologies available for use today.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Idiots, those are not illegal immigrants working during the day and gangbanging during the nights. Those are often the best minds countries like China, India and others have to offer. They are there because American companies wanted them there. They are not cheaper - on the contrary, sometimes they are paid prohibitive relocation costs.
Instead of building the economies in their countries, they came to build American companies, and you're driving them away? Good job there.

Ever been to the Silicon Valley? How many H1B workers there? Would you at such times displace all of them in favor of American workers?

I'm all for tough action against illegal immigrants, but those who are skilled and have a positive effect on the economy should stay.

I'd wish countries such as India and China retaliated with banning those companies from doing business on their land. But then, why would they? The excellent workforce now remains in their countries instead of going to the USA.
Do you even know the prerequisites for H1Bs?

Socialistic, protective crap. Bunch of idiots, as I said.

The purpose of the H-1B visa program is to fill jobs that Americans can't fill. With so many Americans looking for jobs, the amount of jobs that H-1B visa holders are needed for is dwindling. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the number of applications increased this year, and that would just illustrate how the program is abused.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Idiots, those are not illegal immigrants working during the day and gangbanging during the nights. Those are often the best minds countries like China, India and others have to offer. They are there because American companies wanted them there. They are not cheaper - on the contrary, sometimes they are paid prohibitive relocation costs.
Instead of building the economies in their countries, they came to build American companies, and you're driving them away? Good job there.

Ever been to the Silicon Valley? How many H1B workers there? Would you at such times displace all of them in favor of American workers?

I'm all for tough action against illegal immigrants, but those who are skilled and have a positive effect on the economy should stay.

I'd wish countries such as India and China retaliated with banning those companies from doing business on their land. But then, why would they? The excellent workforce now remains in their countries instead of going to the USA.
Do you even know the prerequisites for H1Bs?

Socialistic, protective crap. Bunch of idiots, as I said.

The purpose of the H-1B visa program is to fill jobs that Americans can't fill. With so many Americans looking for jobs, the amount of jobs that H-1B visa holders are needed for is dwindling. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the number of applications increased this year, and that would just illustrate how the program is abused.

That just amounts to the debate of preferring the "social benefit" vs. allowing free reign for the corporates. It's a delicate balance, especially as here the corporates impose social issues on the host country (such as foreign workers). However I can't possibly see how twisting the hand of "needy" corporates at such time can do much good.
That's exactly the issue with government intervention, sometimes it serves less than honest causes.

What else? Would you force GM to buy all parts from the USA? Force GE Capital to give subsidized loans (we've been here before, haven't we)? Where does it stop, really? The TARP plan has become just another place for the federal government to exercise its power over the private sector, and very little of it would be in the economical interest of the aided corporations.

But that's small change compared to the futility of revoking H1B's. If you could tomorrow bring the top 1% percentile of the population from every country on the globe, wouldn't you do it? Sure, you'd take a short term hit, but many successful American companies wouldn't be anywhere today if not for these people. That's exactly what H1B's did - filter a selected few into positions American companies need.

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: Hacp
I agree. We should give these H1B guys a plane ticket out of the country asap. All companies ever do with H1bs is hire them for 1/2 of what an American worker would work for.

but someone above just contradicted you and stated H1b's cost more, not less, and cited relocation costs. who is correct?

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: da loser
these are intelligent people that could be put to use here instead of over there.

it's not a zero sum game. reducing the price of labor creates more opportunities, not less.

Well really it is not reducing the cost of labor. I was hired as a contractor for IT work. An Indian was hired one month after me. We were contracting for the state of Tennessee. I made about 20K per year than the Indian. His contracting company and mine both had to charge this same amount to the State as it was written in the contract. The difference in pay was that I was able to negotiate more pay for myself meaning the company I worked for got less profit. The Indian on the other hand had to accept the lower pay because he was trying to get a green card and if he were to goto a different company his green card clock would start over.

Now if the program were used as it was intended... sure you can look for highly skilled labor to fill any position that no U.S. citizen was qualified for. Too many of the contracting companies made sweet offers so the jobs were worded in a way that they could overcome that and bybass the skilled U.S. citizen.

Isolated incidents? there were about 7 Indian contractors who worked for different companies and they all were getting the pay shaft.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Hacp
There are already plenty of engineers, scientists, and business people that were laid off. Send those foreigners back to their countries and lets hire American workers.

This.

There is no shortage of good people

 

[ElFenix]

i still say it doesn't make a lick of sense to give people visas to be students, let them study here, and then tell them they can't work here.

 

[Jabbernyx]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
i still say it doesn't make a lick of sense to give people visas to be students, let them study here, and then tell them they can't work here.

This. And we're funding their educations (postgrads)! Why wouldn't we want to reap the benefit of our investment?
Obviously, this doesn't apply to the case of sub-standard code monkeys that companies try to ship in, which is what seems to be brought up everytime H1Bs are discussed on AT.

 

[Sacrilege]

Originally posted by: Jabbernyx

Originally posted by: ElFenix
i still say it doesn't make a lick of sense to give people visas to be students, let them study here, and then tell them they can't work here.

This. And we're funding their educations (postgrads)! Why wouldn't we want to reap the benefit of our investment?
Obviously, this doesn't apply to the case of sub-standard code monkeys that companies try to ship in, which is what seems to be brought up everytime H1Bs are discussed on AT.

Look at this pure unadulterated racism. :|

You'd think after the "Macaca" incident and the recent New York Post cartoon, bigots like you would have a little shame. But instead you bring out your tired racism.

The word monkey should never be used to describe another human being. :brokenheart:

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Originally posted by: Jabbernyx

Originally posted by: ElFenix
i still say it doesn't make a lick of sense to give people visas to be students, let them study here, and then tell them they can't work here.

This. And we're funding their educations (postgrads)! Why wouldn't we want to reap the benefit of our investment?
Obviously, this doesn't apply to the case of sub-standard code monkeys that companies try to ship in, which is what seems to be brought up everytime H1Bs are discussed on AT.

Look at this pure unadulterated racism. :|

You'd think after the "Macaca" incident and the recent New York Post cartoon, bigots like you would have a little shame. But instead you bring out your tired racism.

The word monkey should never be used to describe another human being. :brokenheart:

Get the head out of that ass of yours. Code monkey is a term used for any entry level coder regardless of nationality or skin color. Because much of the shit they code for is something a monkey can do. Somebody of low skill level.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Originally posted by: Jabbernyx

Originally posted by: ElFenix
i still say it doesn't make a lick of sense to give people visas to be students, let them study here, and then tell them they can't work here.

This. And we're funding their educations (postgrads)! Why wouldn't we want to reap the benefit of our investment?
Obviously, this doesn't apply to the case of sub-standard code monkeys that companies try to ship in, which is what seems to be brought up everytime H1Bs are discussed on AT.

Look at this pure unadulterated racism. :|

You'd think after the "Macaca" incident and the recent New York Post cartoon, bigots like you would have a little shame. But instead you bring out your tired racism.

The word monkey should never be used to describe another human being. :brokenheart:

Lol, pc much?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Originally posted by: Jabbernyx

Originally posted by: ElFenix
i still say it doesn't make a lick of sense to give people visas to be students, let them study here, and then tell them they can't work here.

This. And we're funding their educations (postgrads)! Why wouldn't we want to reap the benefit of our investment?
Obviously, this doesn't apply to the case of sub-standard code monkeys that companies try to ship in, which is what seems to be brought up everytime H1Bs are discussed on AT.

Look at this pure unadulterated racism. :|

You'd think after the "Macaca" incident and the recent New York Post cartoon, bigots like you would have a little shame. But instead you bring out your tired racism.

The word monkey should never be used to describe another human being. :brokenheart:

Get the head out of that ass of yours. Code monkey is a term used for any entry level coder regardless of nationality or skin color. Because much of the shit they code for is something a monkey can do. Somebody of low skill level.

LOL fucking people make a mockery of the english language. The one problem with this legislation is companies won't be allowed to be as niggardly when hiring.