Originally posted by: Hacp
Originally posted by: blahblah99
Originally posted by: Hacp
There are already plenty of engineers, scientists, and business people that were laid off. Send those foreigners back to their countries and lets hire American workers.
So they can sit on their asses can contribute minimally to the company?
H1B employees are hired because of a) talent, or b) to fulfill a position others don't want to fill at a given salary.
They're hired because they're cheaper. Does an H1B worker have the leverage to negotiate salary? No because the company would fire the worker and he or she would be forced back to India(or any other popular H1B country) to work for a tenth of the wages.
Originally posted by: Jabbernyx
Very nice post! IINM though, the H1B holder only has to leave the US for a year before reapplying right?Originally posted by: z0mb13
...
And you think that once a foreign worker gets a H1B visa, he/she gets to stay in the US permanently? Wrong. an H1B is only valid for 3 years, and then can be extended for another 3 years. After that if he is not sponsored for green card by the company then he has to leave the states for good.
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Originally posted by: Dear Summer
I don't know much about how the H1B process works, but isn't it true that removing the cap of the H1B visa sponsors will make it less advantageous for American citizens to get the position?
If there is no cap, many companies will opt to hire foreign workers on H1B visas simply because they are simply more qualified and educated. The work ethic of people from countries like China/India on average is far superior to people in the U.S. The demand for American citizen workers would go down making them harder to get the position. It adds more competition for American citizens looking to get hired in specialized positions. If there is a cap, the companies would be forced to hire American citizens.
Originally posted by: halik
I'm unsure I feel about this, but generally speaking hiring H1B folk is a cost-reduction strategy. People on H1Bs are willing to accept lower salaries, since their opportunity cost is smaller (i.e. going back to their home land). Plus everything else held constant, the overhead for sponsoring an H1B person is much higher than hiring the same U.S. candidate, which means the H1B holder will get a lower offer (U.S. citizen costs the firm $100K a year,identical candidate on H1B costs $10K a year for sponsorship, thus his salary will be $90K)
Somehow I get a feeling that it's not in the taxpayers' best interest to have TARP-supported companies hire non-citizens/perm residents.
Also the argument that there is a "shortage" of the U.S. workers is complete bullshit; it's the same nonsense used in terms of illegal immigration being for "jobs that Americans don't want do. " The reality for the two things above is "shortage of candidates given the offered salary" and "jobs that Americans don't want do on illegals' wages." I bet if you offer $250K/year for the ABAP programmer position, candidates would be lining out of the door. Or the flipside of the argument, there's a shortage of heart surgeons in the U.S. since I can't find a single one for $28,000/year
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: da loser
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123672890680789063.html
saw this on CNN
sponsored by Vermont Independent Bernie Sanders and Iowa Republican Chuck Grassley, is "to prohibit any recipient of TARP funding from hiring H-1B visa holders
Bank of America, citing a provision of the stimulus package that became law last month, is rescinding job offers to foreign-born students graduating from U.S. business schools this summer.
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This is just dumb. keeping educated people here in the US is smart whether they be engineers, scientists, doctors, or business people.
why we turn away smart people and let in cheap illegal immigrants by the millions is dumb.
Why do we need to outsource our education and knowledge also? Shouldn't we direct the demand for educated and skilled people at our own institutions of education?
Originally posted by: Sacrilege
Originally posted by: Jabbernyx
This. And we're funding their educations (postgrads)! Why wouldn't we want to reap the benefit of our investment?Originally posted by: ElFenix
i still say it doesn't make a lick of sense to give people visas to be students, let them study here, and then tell them they can't work here.
Obviously, this doesn't apply to the case of sub-standard code monkeys that companies try to ship in, which is what seems to be brought up everytime H1Bs are discussed on AT.
Look at this pure unadulterated racism. :|
You'd think after the "Macaca" incident and the recent New York Post cartoon, bigots like you would have a little shame. But instead you bring out your tired racism.
The word monkey should never be used to describe another human being. :brokenheart:
Originally posted by: BoberFett
If these people are so valuable, make them citizens and offer them the protection that citizens get, rather than give the H1B sponsor the threat of deportation to keep these people in line. As long as they're here on work visas, they're indentured servants and clearly NOT as valuable as an equally capable US citizen.
Agree and the numbers support this conclusion.why we turn away smart people and let in cheap illegal immigrants by the millions is dumb.
If you were really paying market rate you would have been able to find US candidates without adding overhead of sponsoring H1B application.Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Hacp
I agree. We should give these H1B guys a plane ticket out of the country asap. All companies ever do with H1bs is hire them for 1/2 of what an American worker would work for.
that's bullshit. we pay our h1b workers market rate plus we have to pay extra for legal and relo.
There is no lack of talent on the market. You're simply not offering competitive salary to attract skills you need.Originally posted by: JS80
we hire h1b because of the lack of talent in the market, NOT because they are cheaper.
See above, case in point: you're paying so little you already lost two of your H1B's.Originally posted by: JS80
we already lost 2 h1bs because they got even higher offers elsewhere.
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: z0mb13
I am so glad I got out of the shithole named as the U S A. Your country probably has the most dmbfvked immigration laws EVER
We're glad you got out too. :thumbsup: Thank you for making a positive contribution to our unemployment rate by freeing up a job.
Or alternatively, there are a lack of people willing to work at what companies can pay.halik said it best. There is no lack of candidates. However, there is a lack of candidates at the price companies want to pay.
Originally posted by: AreaCode707
You folks saying, "good, keep those foreigners out of American jobs," you go find me 10 competent and experienced US-born ABAP programmers. In my area/willing to relocate to my area. Do you even know what the hell ABAP is? I don't care if there are 100 out of work Americans applying for that job; if they can't DO it, they're no use and you damage the economy by applying laws that mean a company has to hire underqualified or non-qualified workers.
<--- American libertarian who wants as low a US unemployment rate as is reasonably possible
ABAP is one of the many application-specific fourth-generation languages (4GLs) first developed in the 1980s. It was originally the report language for SAP R/2, a platform that enabled large corporations to build mainframe business applications for materials management and financial and management accounting.
customers can develop custom reports and interfaces with ABAP programming. The language is fairly easy to learn for programmers but it is not a tool for direct use by non-programmers. Good programming skills, including knowledge of relational database design and preferably also of object-oriented concepts, are required to create ABAP programs.
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: z0mb13
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: z0mb13
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Hacp
I agree. We should give these H1B guys a plane ticket out of the country asap. All companies ever do with H1bs is hire them for 1/2 of what an American worker would work for.
that's bullshit. we pay our h1b workers market rate plus we have to pay extra for legal and relo. we hire h1b because of the lack of talent in the market, NOT because they are cheaper. we already lost 2 h1bs because they got even higher offers elsewhere.
If you look at the top 10 companies that were granted the most H-1B visas in 2006, 7 of them are companies whose primary business is providing outsourcing services in India. 6 are Indian companies. More than 25% of all H-1B visas went to those 7 companies. You'll have a hard time convincing me that those companies would rather hire "cheaper" American workers, but they just can't find any.
even if we follow your argument, if these companies cant hire the H1B workers here, they would simply hire them and place them abroad. US will be worse still.
Clearly they have a need for employees who are physically located in the US, or they wouldn't want to bring their employees here from India. They can pay them a lot less in India.
again going back to my point that these companies would pay more in time and money to sponsor a H1B worker because they cant find an equivalent local citizen. If they found one then they would hire a local person simply because its cheaper for them.
I really dont buy hiring foreign people because they are cheaper argument.
You mentioned $5k in legal fees in a previous post. This is what the $5k buys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU
Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
If you were really paying market rate you would have been able to find US candidates without adding overhead of sponsoring H1B application.Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Hacp
I agree. We should give these H1B guys a plane ticket out of the country asap. All companies ever do with H1bs is hire them for 1/2 of what an American worker would work for.
that's bullshit. we pay our h1b workers market rate plus we have to pay extra for legal and relo.
There is no lack of talent on the market. You're simply not offering competitive salary to attract skills you need.Originally posted by: JS80
we hire h1b because of the lack of talent in the market, NOT because they are cheaper.
See above, case in point: you're paying so little you already lost two of your H1B's.Originally posted by: JS80
we already lost 2 h1bs because they got even higher offers elsewhere.
This entire post by JS80 is why people are against H1B visas. First they can't find US candidates because they do not offer competitive salary, so they turn to H1B. Then, when they hire H1B they still don't pay them enough because they leave somewhere.
halik said it best. There is no lack of candidates. However, there is a lack of candidates at the price companies want to pay.
Originally posted by: z0mb13
I am so glad I got out of the shithole named as the U S A. Your country probably has the most dmbfvked immigration laws EVER
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Or alternatively, there are a lack of people willing to work at what companies can pay.halik said it best. There is no lack of candidates. However, there is a lack of candidates at the price companies want to pay.
Originally posted by: z0mb13
Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
If you were really paying market rate you would have been able to find US candidates without adding overhead of sponsoring H1B application.Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Hacp
I agree. We should give these H1B guys a plane ticket out of the country asap. All companies ever do with H1bs is hire them for 1/2 of what an American worker would work for.
that's bullshit. we pay our h1b workers market rate plus we have to pay extra for legal and relo.
There is no lack of talent on the market. You're simply not offering competitive salary to attract skills you need.Originally posted by: JS80
we hire h1b because of the lack of talent in the market, NOT because they are cheaper.
See above, case in point: you're paying so little you already lost two of your H1B's.Originally posted by: JS80
we already lost 2 h1bs because they got even higher offers elsewhere.
This entire post by JS80 is why people are against H1B visas. First they can't find US candidates because they do not offer competitive salary, so they turn to H1B. Then, when they hire H1B they still don't pay them enough because they leave somewhere.
halik said it best. There is no lack of candidates. However, there is a lack of candidates at the price companies want to pay.
can you provide facts instead of just pulling things out of ur ass?
I think what JS80 was saying is the H1B workers at his company were so desirable so that they got better offer elsewhere, it is NOT because they are lowly paid. You are twisting his words.
Originally posted by: z0mb13
can you provide facts instead of just pulling things out of ur ass?
I think what JS80 was saying is the H1B workers at his company were so desirable so that they got better offer elsewhere, it is NOT because they are lowly paid. You are twisting his words.
Originally posted by: z0mb13
Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
If you were really paying market rate you would have been able to find US candidates without adding overhead of sponsoring H1B application.Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Hacp
I agree. We should give these H1B guys a plane ticket out of the country asap. All companies ever do with H1bs is hire them for 1/2 of what an American worker would work for.
that's bullshit. we pay our h1b workers market rate plus we have to pay extra for legal and relo.
There is no lack of talent on the market. You're simply not offering competitive salary to attract skills you need.Originally posted by: JS80
we hire h1b because of the lack of talent in the market, NOT because they are cheaper.
See above, case in point: you're paying so little you already lost two of your H1B's.Originally posted by: JS80
we already lost 2 h1bs because they got even higher offers elsewhere.
This entire post by JS80 is why people are against H1B visas. First they can't find US candidates because they do not offer competitive salary, so they turn to H1B. Then, when they hire H1B they still don't pay them enough because they leave somewhere.
halik said it best. There is no lack of candidates. However, there is a lack of candidates at the price companies want to pay.
can you provide facts instead of just pulling things out of ur ass?
I think what JS80 was saying is the H1B workers at his company were so desirable so that they got better offer elsewhere, it is NOT because they are lowly paid. You are twisting his words.
The point is that it's always about supply and demand. I wonder if the US is benefitted by artificially limiting the supply.Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Or alternatively, there are a lack of people willing to work at what companies can pay.halik said it best. There is no lack of candidates. However, there is a lack of candidates at the price companies want to pay.
Tho two things are synonymous... what exactly is the point you're trying to make.
Originally posted by: Skoorb
The point is that it's always about supply and demand. I wonder if the US is benefited by artificially limiting the supply.Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Or alternatively, there are a lack of people willing to work at what companies can pay.halik said it best. There is no lack of candidates. However, there is a lack of candidates at the price companies want to pay.
Tho two things are synonymous... what exactly is the point you're trying to make.