H1B Visas banned under Tarp

[tk149]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: tk149

Originally posted by: BoberFett
So tell me why I should care if we send people packing who apparently don't want to be here anyway?

Obviously, the H1B applicants WANT to be here. Some of them just don't want to stay here forever.

They're more qualified than American workers (assuming a true H1B situation). While they're here, they produce more efficiently than an American worker would in the same job, and a foreign company does not have access to their skills. They produce wealth, and get taxed on it. They contribute a lot more to the American economy by working here, than by working in another country.

In other words, letting an H1B work here, helps the US and hurts the competition. Putting an unqualified American worker in the same job does the opposite.

So we'll train them, give them practical experience, pay them well, then they go home leaving us with... a need for another H1B worker.

If a company needs talent, maybe they need to cultivate it rather than expect everything to come in a nice neat package.

From what I understand, H1B was meant to fill a temporary need only. If a company is hiring H1B's one after another, then that is an abuse, and the process should be fixed, not eliminated.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Good. I know that having foreign workers over here is a net positive during most times, but with the current economic situation and flooded labor pool this is a good idea. Our own needs as citizens must come first.

Careful for what you wish for as you just might get it. You seem to assume that if these people are not here working, they are not working at all. This people on h1b visas are educated and will be working utilizing their skills in low wage countries. This just means even more low wage competition against US companies by foreign firms.

Fine with me. The more businesses started over in China and India the better. More businesses=more competition for workers=higher salaries for workers=less incentive to offshore.

 

[BrownTown]

We need MORE H1B visas, not less. How is important hard working people with skills a bad thing? If we are gonna kick anyone out it should be all the uneducated Mexicans...

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

I do not know about now, but when I was in Engineering at LIT & MIT, many of the foriegn Chinese (Taiwan) were actually on stipends from their government; not scholarships.

The same held true at WPI, Cal Tech & Rensselaer

stipends and scholarships are probably quite similar. The singapore students that I saw got scholarship from their government. But after they graduate they had to return to Singapore to work there for at least some years as part of their agreement. (see the Singapore gov is smart!)

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Good. I know that having foreign workers over here is a net positive during most times, but with the current economic situation and flooded labor pool this is a good idea. Our own needs as citizens must come first.

Careful for what you wish for as you just might get it. You seem to assume that if these people are not here working, they are not working at all. This people on h1b visas are educated and will be working utilizing their skills in low wage countries. This just means even more low wage competition against US companies by foreign firms.

Fine with me. The more businesses started over in China and India the better. More businesses=more competition for workers=higher salaries for workers=less incentive to offshore.

umm no. It will be more businesses in China/India, less in the US!!
so there will be LESS competition for workers here, or lower salaries for workers.

 

[blahblah99]

Originally posted by: SammyJr
Fine with me. The more businesses started over in China and India the better. More businesses=more competition for workers=higher salaries for workers=less incentive to offshore.

With logic like that, it's no wonder America is going down the shithole.

Just wait till overseas competition causes your company to fire you.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Hacp
There are already plenty of engineers, scientists, and business people that were laid off. Send those foreigners back to their countries and lets hire American workers.

If the most qualified person is an international PhD, then that person should get the job. Not sure what your comment has to do with engineers and scientists, as you don't hire someone simply b/c they are American in those fields. You hire them based on talent and experience.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Hacp
I agree. We should give these H1B guys a plane ticket out of the country asap. All companies ever do with H1bs is hire them for 1/2 of what an American worker would work for.

/facepalm x1,000,000

 

[seker2k]

The problem with H1-B and Illegal immigration, both is, they tax social services big time.

We are not getting the "best and the brightest" as claimed by the apolgists!

I live in Naperville, Illinois by the train station. Its a great place to catch the train to go downtown to the few corporate jobs Chicago has. The apartment complexes here are loaded with Indians, 1/2 my floor downtown is H1-b.

My wife works in an oby-gyn office and sees tons of Indians pumping out kids on welfare even though they have H1-b jobs, and the Mexicans around here are doing the same.

The cheap legal and illegal labor is a great subsidy for the corporations, but it comes at the expense of the public good.

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: fornax

Originally posted by: ManiNumbers pulled straight out of your ass just like everything else you've posted in this thread. The vast majority of the Fortune 500 uses H1Bs as a way of expanding the applicant pool. Maybe not necessarily finding a specialized skillset, but rather finding more appealing candidates in terms of relevant experience or fit. My company more than perhaps any other does extensive best practice sharing/ benchmarking against the rest of the Fortune 500 to make sure we are competitive in hiring top talent.

People who know a lot of code monkey H1Bs tend to think that is the norm - it is not.

Well, I'm glad that you admit that your company acts against both the spirit and the letter of the law about H1Bs. Those are meant to be a stop-gap measure, the ultimate tool to find a worker with unique and specialized skills in a short time. The H1B program is definitely NOT meant to "expand the applicant pool". In fact, if applied strictly, the criterion for an H1B applicant is that there is no minimally qualified US applicant (citizen, green card holder, or other categories: refugees, etc.).

So thanks for confirming from the horse's mouth that indeed virtually everyone is abusing the H1B process and that it should be scrapped or replaced with something that can be controlled and audited properly.

It's true that H1Bs are not used as they were originally intended, but that was not my original point. I was refuting the people saying that H1Bs are primarily used as a lower cost alternative to US labor - something that is not normally the case.

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: seker2k
The problem with H1-B and Illegal immigration, both is, they tax social services big time.

We are not getting the "best and the brightest" as claimed by the apolgists!

I live in Naperville, Illinois by the train station. Its a great place to catch the train to go downtown to the few corporate jobs Chicago has. The apartment complexes here are loaded with Indians, 1/2 my floor downtown is H1-b.

My wife works in an oby-gyn office and sees tons of Indians pumping out kids on welfare even though they have H1-b jobs, and the Mexicans around here are doing the same.

The cheap legal and illegal labor is a great subsidy for the corporations, but it comes at the expense of the public good.

H1B and illegal immigrants are totally different.

H1B holders pay taxes, ssn, medicare, basically EVERYTHING that a citizen pays. Yet most of them will never see that money back.

Almost all H1B holders are in an insurance plan from their company, and they also do 401 planning and what not. So the costs are not borne by the public.

 

[Jack Flash]

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: seker2k
The problem with H1-B and Illegal immigration, both is, they tax social services big time.

We are not getting the "best and the brightest" as claimed by the apolgists!

I live in Naperville, Illinois by the train station. Its a great place to catch the train to go downtown to the few corporate jobs Chicago has. The apartment complexes here are loaded with Indians, 1/2 my floor downtown is H1-b.

My wife works in an oby-gyn office and sees tons of Indians pumping out kids on welfare even though they have H1-b jobs, and the Mexicans around here are doing the same.

The cheap legal and illegal labor is a great subsidy for the corporations, but it comes at the expense of the public good.

H1B and illegal immigrants are totally different.

H1B holders pay taxes, ssn, medicare, basically EVERYTHING that a citizen pays. Yet most of them will never see that money back.

Almost all H1B holders are in an insurance plan from their company, and they also do 401 planning and what not. So the costs are not borne by the public.

Just like most everyone else.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: seker2k
The problem with H1-B and Illegal immigration, both is, they tax social services big time.

We are not getting the "best and the brightest" as claimed by the apolgists!

I live in Naperville, Illinois by the train station. Its a great place to catch the train to go downtown to the few corporate jobs Chicago has. The apartment complexes here are loaded with Indians, 1/2 my floor downtown is H1-b.

My wife works in an oby-gyn office and sees tons of Indians pumping out kids on welfare even though they have H1-b jobs, and the Mexicans around here are doing the same.

The cheap legal and illegal labor is a great subsidy for the corporations, but it comes at the expense of the public good.

Hmm really, care to explain how they get on welfare when they have above min wage job? My H1B friends would certainly like to know cause they can always use some US government money.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Jack Flash

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: seker2k
The problem with H1-B and Illegal immigration, both is, they tax social services big time.

We are not getting the "best and the brightest" as claimed by the apolgists!

I live in Naperville, Illinois by the train station. Its a great place to catch the train to go downtown to the few corporate jobs Chicago has. The apartment complexes here are loaded with Indians, 1/2 my floor downtown is H1-b.

My wife works in an oby-gyn office and sees tons of Indians pumping out kids on welfare even though they have H1-b jobs, and the Mexicans around here are doing the same.

The cheap legal and illegal labor is a great subsidy for the corporations, but it comes at the expense of the public good.

H1B and illegal immigrants are totally different.

H1B holders pay taxes, ssn, medicare, basically EVERYTHING that a citizen pays. Yet most of them will never see that money back.

Almost all H1B holders are in an insurance plan from their company, and they also do 401 planning and what not. So the costs are not borne by the public.

Just like most everyone else.

Well, you've got a point there.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: seker2k
The problem with H1-B and Illegal immigration, both is, they tax social services big time.

We are not getting the "best and the brightest" as claimed by the apolgists!

I live in Naperville, Illinois by the train station. Its a great place to catch the train to go downtown to the few corporate jobs Chicago has. The apartment complexes here are loaded with Indians, 1/2 my floor downtown is H1-b.

My wife works in an oby-gyn office and sees tons of Indians pumping out kids on welfare even though they have H1-b jobs, and the Mexicans around here are doing the same.

The cheap legal and illegal labor is a great subsidy for the corporations, but it comes at the expense of the public good.

This was your first post? H1Bs != illegals; kinda the exact opposite, in education, lifestyle and social level.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Good. I know that having foreign workers over here is a net positive during most times, but with the current economic situation and flooded labor pool this is a good idea. Our own needs as citizens must come first.

Careful for what you wish for as you just might get it. You seem to assume that if these people are not here working, they are not working at all. This people on h1b visas are educated and will be working utilizing their skills in low wage countries. This just means even more low wage competition against US companies by foreign firms.

Fine with me. The more businesses started over in China and India the better. More businesses=more competition for workers=higher salaries for workers=less incentive to offshore.

umm no. It will be more businesses in China/India, less in the US!!
so there will be LESS competition for workers here, or lower salaries for workers.

Why? With higher offshoring costs, companies would be more likely to outsource with American firms or hire American workers. American, Indian, and Chinese firms would compete on quality instead of on low cost status.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: blahblah99

Originally posted by: SammyJr
Fine with me. The more businesses started over in China and India the better. More businesses=more competition for workers=higher salaries for workers=less incentive to offshore.

With logic like that, it's no wonder America is going down the shithole.

Just wait till overseas competition causes your company to fire you.

If Indian and Chinese salaries were higher, closer to American/European salaries, why wouldn't Americans be able to compete?

 

[blahblah99]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: blahblah99

Originally posted by: SammyJr
Fine with me. The more businesses started over in China and India the better. More businesses=more competition for workers=higher salaries for workers=less incentive to offshore.

With logic like that, it's no wonder America is going down the shithole.

Just wait till overseas competition causes your company to fire you.

If Indian and Chinese salaries were higher, closer to American/European salaries, why wouldn't Americans be able to compete?

There are extra resources associated with each new employee - space, taxes, unemployment, insurance, worker's comp, etc etc. Even if overseas salaries matched US salaries dollar for dollar, companies are still saving money by outsourcing.

The only way Americans will be able to compete is if deductions from offshore activities were banned. That's never going to happen. China/India/whoever buys up US debt and in return, US pretty much guarantees them business.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: blahblah99

Originally posted by: SammyJr
Fine with me. The more businesses started over in China and India the better. More businesses=more competition for workers=higher salaries for workers=less incentive to offshore.

With logic like that, it's no wonder America is going down the shithole.

Just wait till overseas competition causes your company to fire you.

If Indian and Chinese salaries were higher, closer to American/European salaries, why wouldn't Americans be able to compete?

Go to any top engineering school's graduate classes and you'd see why.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Originally posted by: Jabbernyx

Originally posted by: ElFenix
i still say it doesn't make a lick of sense to give people visas to be students, let them study here, and then tell them they can't work here.

This. And we're funding their educations (postgrads)! Why wouldn't we want to reap the benefit of our investment?
Obviously, this doesn't apply to the case of sub-standard code monkeys that companies try to ship in, which is what seems to be brought up everytime H1Bs are discussed on AT.

Look at this pure unadulterated racism. :|

You'd think after the "Macaca" incident and the recent New York Post cartoon, bigots like you would have a little shame. But instead you bring out your tired racism.

The word monkey should never be used to describe another human being. :brokenheart:

Your correct . Monkey should not be used to discribe homo sapiens(Thinking MAN) . The use in this case was directed at the wrong people. The monkeys are the people who allowed them here to start with . Humans are all the same. Countryman Are Differant. American differant than Mexican . So laws in America should Be made to protect COUNTRYMAN(americans) Ya want to try a differant system go to EU.

 

[MrYogi]

Believe me, H-1B holders are not a problem to this country. They are highly educated and are legally in USA. They pay taxes, social security, and medicare which most of them will never use.

The problem is the illegal immigrants who do not pay tax, but uses public schools and public libraries.