Hackintosh worth it these days?

[slackerinabox]

I have quite a few macs (2 macbook airs, a recent i5 mac mini and a vintage core iMac) and video editing has turned from a hobby into something I do quite often. My mac mini has been running like a dog these days and FCP X has been struggling on it, I think it's time to move to something better but the price jump is substantial (especially since I don't want an AIO design). Hackintosh worth it for relatively high end tasks?

Specific questions:
1. Can I install licensed, app store applications? I remember reading that there were app store issues and wonder if pro apps (logic, final cut) phone home and identify as faux hardware

2. Hardware acceleration (video) - has that been figured out well? I remember when I dabbled way back when that there were serious driver issue prohibiting things such as desktop GPU accelaration and features like GPU assisted rendering in pro apps. If that's been resolved, is ATI or Nvidia the way to go

3. Is is a pretty seamless experience? I'm an apple fan and not an android fan, I don't like customizing, I don't like troubleshooting beyond setup, and time isn't money since I'm still an amateur video editor but I still don't want the hobby to turn into a distraction (spending more time with hardware issues than working on footage)

4. Would the performance from a i5 (late-2011) mini to a sub-$1000 hackintosh (thinking i5 as well) be significant or am I just wasting time?

5. Do updates still break systems? The last time I did a hackintosh was years ago but once I forgot to disable autoupdates and, boom, system failure

A part of me thinks that just upgrading the mini to an SSD would alleviate a lot of my sluggishness but the instructions I've seen look terrifyingly difficult (gutting the internals vs. just adding a drive). Thoughts?

 

[Eug]

Hackintosh worth it these days?

No, because:

3. No.
5. Yes.

Just stick an SSD in the i5 mini and max out the RAM.

 

[GWestphal]

I started hacking back on 10.4 and it was a process then. The current multibeast/chameleon setup is pretty easy. If you've got the right hardware it takes less than an hour to get a system up and running vanilla. Typically, with kernel updates you might need to reinstall some kexts, but that's about it. Depends what level of performance you want, is a Mac mini sufficient for 599 or do you want quad core, 32GB RAM, dual video cards, blah blah for like 1500?

 

[vailr]

Since Intel's Haswell CPU isn't yet supported by the OSX 10.8.3 kernel, you'd probably want to go with an Ivy Bridge CPU + UEFI bios system. As long as a working Mac 10.6.8 or later system is also available (for creating the USB thumb drive OSX system installer), installing OSX on current version Intel CPU hardware is not very difficult.
A Hackintosh install "from scratch" (assuming only a Windows machine is available) is still somewhat convoluted, however.

 

[MrX8503]

You have to get specific parts and drivers for your hackintosh. When there's an update, you have to watch out for compatibility issues.

How much work is worth it is up to you.

 

[Childs]

No, because:

3. No.
5. Yes.

Just stick an SSD in the i5 mini and max out the RAM.

Yeah, this should be good enough.

 

[SKORPI0]

Worth to me IMO for my graphics/video re-encoding requirements. Spent some time to get a working Mountain Lion 10.8.2 on my current system and my almost 6 year old Asus P5K Premium, Q6600, 8GB.

1. Did some software upgrades and app didn't know that I was not using an original Mac.
2. Nvidia video card all the way. Not sure if at lot of the ATI Radeon are widely supported.
3. Pretty seamless once you get the right kexts for your chipset, video, ethernet and audio.
4. You'll get a comparable performance with the same processor, regardless it's a original mac or a Hackintosh.
5. Updates usually resulted in kernel panic in my experience. But once I figured out what the causes are (plenty of them) I'm usually back in business. Worth the time and effort just to get the latest OS X features.

Just my experience since getting a Hackintosh from 10.4 Tiger. I would love to own a real Mac of course, but being a person who loves challenges and figure out why they work/don't work.

 

[jpeyton]

You would be better off selling the i5 Mini and buying an i7 quad-core Mini. More cores is the name of the game if video editing is your thing.

Upgrade the SSD and RAM yourself.

 

[Subyman]

Its easier now than ever before.

1.) Yes. I use Xcode, simulator, Logic, and on and on. I update through the app store and everything. Most hackintoshes read as a Mac Pro.
2.) Nvidia cards are supported at the OS level. Anything in the 6xx series is plug and play.
3.) Its pretty seamless as long as you follow tonymac's guide. Use the parts he shows and you will be up and running about as quickly as installing windows.
4.) Depends on what you need. The mac minis are usually enough for most people. I run with an i5-2400 Sandy Bridge along with a Nvidia 640 and SSD and it is extremely snappy. Much more so than my Ivy Bridge MacBook Pro. I dual screen 27" 1440p monitors as well.
5.) Tony usually has a complete breakdown of the latest updates on his site. I always go there first before installing an update. The most I've had to do was to reinstall audio drivers and reboot.

I'd upgrade to the SSD first and see if you like that. If not, well you already have an SSD for your Hackintosh build

 

[Shephard]

Too much of a hassle. I considered it for a family member to save him money. Then I realized simple updates can break the OS and overall it can be buggy even if you got the right parts for the build.

OSX sucks I don't know why you would want to use it. They are making it more like iOS every release.

 

[Tegeril]

Too much of a hassle. I considered it for a family member to save him money. Then I realized simple updates can break the OS and overall it can be buggy even if you got the right parts for the build.

OSX sucks I don't know why you would want to use it. They are making it more like iOS every release.

Minus the part where they didn't add anything new like the woeful Launchpad to Mavericks and then there's the part where OS X doesn't suck.

 

[Subyman]

Minus the part where they didn't add anything new like the woeful Launchpad to Mavericks and then there's the part where OS X doesn't suck.

Yeah, I don't know what he's talking about. Change a couple of icons and people scream that the OS is becoming like a phone. Get back with me when they remove terminal...

 

[Shephard]

The first few versions of OS X were so bad. I remember when it was first released. OS 9 was much better.

OS X slowly got better and Apple peaked with Snow Leopard. Now they are on a downhill slope.

 

[Zaap]

1. Yes.

2. Yes, stick with nVidia. (I'm well-served by the ATI card in my sig, but I prefer nVidia cards that have come out since.)

3. Yes. As said, follow guides, use well-supported hardware. (Plenty to choose from). Above all, don't listen to people with agendas/chips on their shoulders/axes to grind that don't know what they're talking about. Remember, some Mac users get really petty and illogical over alternative hardware to the almighty Church of the Holy Apple, so, really.. don't listen to zealots if you want accurate/correct information. Go read up on TonyMac's site and others from people that DO know what's what from having actually done it. Also read testimony from others who're doing the same tasks with a Hack as you want to do yourself.

4. Depends on how far sub-$1000 you go, but yes,you can build a system that smokes a 2011 Mini easily. Keep in mind, the current Mac Mini isn't a bad deal for the price range, so do your own comparison and decide what's best for you. By going with a Hack, the main advantages over the Mini will be far more powerful dedicated GPU options, better drive options, tons of CPU options for less $, more RAM, expansion, etc.

5. Yes, they certainly can (many times combo updates work just fine with no hassle, other times a simple kext shuffle is required) but it's an easily avoided problem.


The main thing- you don't have to be a rocket scientist to build/use a Hackintosh, but you do have to be a logical type of person. I've learned that some simply aren't. There's a very simple set of rules that are unique to a Hackintosh vs. a Mac and they're well documented.
They're not difficult, just different. But there are some types that will just beat their heads against a brick wall rather than follow instructions and do things correctly, often just so they can bleat about how something doesn't work. So if you feel you might be one of those types, don't attempt a Hackintosh.

If you're one who can gather knowledge presented by others, look a few things up, doesn't panic the second something requires a little bit of thought rather than temper tantrum, listens to advice and follows instructions- then a Hackintosh is well worth it, and easy to build correctly and use for anything you throw at it.

 

[vbuggy]

I have quite a few macs (2 macbook airs, a recent i5 mac mini and a vintage core iMac) and video editing has turned from a hobby into something I do quite often. My mac mini has been running like a dog these days and FCP X has been struggling on it, I think it's time to move to something better but the price jump is substantial (especially since I don't want an AIO design). Hackintosh worth it for relatively high end tasks?

Yes and no.

As someone who's into computationally intensive (but not really video editing - I do FCS/P, but only when I need to work with other Mac users) tasks on semi-legacy OS X software, I've been trying to hackintosh for years - ever since I found that relatively speaking (in terms of comparable pro-use PC's at the time), the 2006 Pro that I'd been holding out for was a pile of junk. In fact, we went as far as to re-house the Pros in order to get them to work in our environment (environments that Dell and HP workstations were perfectly happy to work in under load).

We have never had hackintoshes in production use even when hackintoshing was being actively trialled. I've carried on very low-level trials of it since 2010 and there are places where hackintoshing can work out.

1. You're too poor for a Pro, and an iMac is too limiting (or again, you can't afford Thunderbolt accessories). Hackintoshing because you can't afford a Mini seems like a less viable option in that your budget is already at too low a level to come up with a decent computer, period.

2. You're working in situations where a Pro is inadequate - either in terms of it's bad cooling, crappy expansion capabilities, crappy storage subsystems and the ludicrous form-over-function SATA arrangement, etc.

3. You're a Windows / Linux guy who needs to develop / write malware for the Mac, are truly broke / live in a third world country and are/or used to stealing all your software.

In all cases you have to bear with a certain degree of inconvenience which is referred to below. If that is worth it, then hackintosh for you. Your situation though seems still to be semi-pro, so it may well make sense to a degree - bar the caveats I'll put in further down.

I fit into 2. and it's not been worth it for me to date - not even with the fact that I have to rack some of my Pro's and I pay colos by the rack (i.e. compare density of a racked Pro with something a whole lot more potent in 1~2U on the Windows side). Stability - at least the Apple level of stability - and support in cases of issues is more important to me. The last thing I want is finger-pointing at the hardware when things go wrong.

Specific questions:
1. Can I install licensed, app store applications? I remember reading that there were app store issues and wonder if pro apps (logic, final cut) phone home and identify as faux hardware

For the most part, yes. We had occasional odd issues with certain vertical software.

2. Hardware acceleration (video) - has that been figured out well? I remember when I dabbled way back when that there were serious driver issue prohibiting things such as desktop GPU accelaration and features like GPU assisted rendering in pro apps. If that's been resolved, is ATI or Nvidia the way to go

As Zaap says, follow supported hardware lists and you should be OK most of the time.

3. Is is a pretty seamless experience? I'm an apple fan and not an android fan, I don't like customizing, I don't like troubleshooting beyond setup, and time isn't money since I'm still an amateur video editor but I still don't want the hobby to turn into a distraction (spending more time with hardware issues than working on footage)

No - I'll flatly disgree with Zaap here. It's a hobbyist-Android-level experience, it's not an Apple experience anymore. It is doable, especially if you have spare time on your hands, but you're essentially on your own (+Google). You'll get people who'll vehemently vouch for the usability of their hackintosh, and then breezily say in the same breath that "oh x doesn't work, but I don't need it anyway".

And you could argue, if you're going the Apple way there is no point in introducing Linux-level complexity to the equation - I mean, why are you sweating this stuff when you're in the Apple ecosystem? You know with Apple you pay a certain amount over the rest of the consumer gear to get the shiny slave-to-marketing Apple experience, or alternatively as a "pro" that you're essentially too proud to admit you're incompetent - so unless you're in the specific situation that you have OS X software which isn't working well on any of the hardware platforms Apple offers, why are you doing this? Shouldn't you be, as it were, saving up like a good Applezombie for that next magical moment when you unbox their latest shiny trinket?

4. Would the performance from a i5 (late-2011) mini to a sub-$1000 hackintosh (thinking i5 as well) be significant or am I just wasting time?

Depends on just how sub $1000. If we're talking $999, likely not a waste of time since you'll be on your way to replicating an iMac, not a Mini.

5. Do updates still break systems? The last time I did a hackintosh was years ago but once I forgot to disable autoupdates and, boom, system failure

Yes relatively often, and see 3.

A part of me thinks that just upgrading the mini to an SSD would alleviate a lot of my sluggishness but the instructions I've seen look terrifyingly difficult (gutting the internals vs. just adding a drive). Thoughts?

I've known a couple of non-tech guys who believe themselves to be techie types - admittedly they are both people who consider Macs to be better and therefore are very likely technically incompetent - who have broken their systems trying to get in. Don't bother if you don't feel confident about it.

 

[Zaap]

You'll get people who'll vehemently vouch for the usability of their hackintosh, and then breezily say in the same breath that "oh x doesn't work, but I don't need it anyway".

Very true, and exactly why I stress there is a different rule set than an actual Mac. The biggest thing that often doesn't 'just work' is sleep- but also that can just be a matter of choosing hardware where sleep is known to work. (For example, my sig system and lots of other builds sleep just fine. My experience is 100% identical to a Mac when in use, the only time where it isn't in when I do an update. The trade off of that and hardware freedom is more than worth it for me. One has to weigh if it's worth it for them. It's definitely not for everyone.

 

[nextJin]

What happens with updates? I have everything you have there Zaap other than the mobo (which I could buy).

I own a late 2012 27" iMac w/GTX 680MX and a rMBP 15" but still have my old stuff laying around with a U3011.

 

[Wreckem]

The 7XXX Radeons are supported as of 10.8.3. Not much more difficult than getting the Nvidia 6XX series working. Support will be better with Mavericks/when the MacPro is released.

As for updating. Don't be the first to update, give it a few days, or a week or two. If you do that then there will be known steps on how to update with minimal to problems.

Finally if you are comfortable with semi-regular trouble shooting forget about making a hackintosh.

 

[dclive]

I suggest an SSD for the Mac mini. If opening it is troubling to you, simply get a thunderbolt cable and a thunderbolt SATA enclosure, and you're off to the races.

But paying someone to install the SSD would likely be cheaper, easier, simpler... and would keep the Thunderbolt port open.

 

[Zaap]

What happens with updates? I have everything you have there Zaap other than the mobo (which I could buy).

Just like Wreckem says- usually it's a safe bet to wait and see what (if any) procedure there is to updating depending on your hardware. (By the way, we're only talking the OSX Software Update from one 10.x.x version to another, not application updates including all of Apple's built in apps and third party apps which update the same as any Mac).

I've applied every system update to my Hacks from 10.5.4 to the latest 10.8.4, and of all of them, I've only had trouble with one (10.5.6, and really it didn't cause me trouble, I just skipped it.) I'm talking incremental updates (i.e: 10.x.1 to 10.x.2) not full version updates (i.e: 10.7 to 10.8). Full version updates* are more involved, and one has to wait for a full install procedure for those. (For example, I know Mavericks will run on my hardware, some people are already running it, but it'll be a while after release that I'll attempt an update. Even so, I'll run it alongside Mountain Lion until I know I can depend on it).


Mostly, there isn't actually a problem- just the potential for one. For example- for me, the latest 10.8.4 was a simple Software Update and reboot just like any real Mac- no trouble what-so-ever.

But if there is a problem, it's usually something like one, maybe two kexts are rendered incompatible by an update. At best, something like your sound won't work when you reboot after the update, and after a few minutes of Googling, you read that your motherboard requires a different AppleHDAudio kext than the updated version, you install it using kext Utility, reboot, and all is well.

A little worse, something like SleepEnabler gets broken by the update, and either your system now no-longer wakes from sleep, or it simply won't boot until the incompatible kext is removed. In this case, you wait until someone reports what's going on and posts the working kext.

Worst-case, an update includes a major kernel change that completely fails on your hardware, in which case the only option is to wait for a procedure around it. (I honestly can't recall the last incremental update that did that.)

What I do (and IMO anyone who would rather do things the logical way) is I don't leave any of this to chance. I always keep an exact clone of my system. You could run a system with infinite clones or completely different iterations of OSX. You can even install OSX endless times on different partitions of the same hard drive. OSX isn't at all like Windows in this respect- it simply doesn't matter how many times it exists on the same hardware.

So, there is no such thing as hosing my system. I simply boot to a clone install and run system update. If it works, great. I know I can now safely update my main install. If it fails? Doesn't matter. I haven't touched my main install. If I feel like it, I can boot the main and figure out what kext 'borked' the backup install, repair it, and figure out for myself what the update needs to work. (Done this plenty of times completely on my own, because as I said, generally the culprits are the exact same family of kexts if there's a problem. Or, if I don't care to bother, I can simply restore my clone to its previous pristine state and wait until someone else figures out the issue with the latest update.

Some may scream "OMG, wait a few days for an update! The horrors!" but just like me, most probably couldn't begin to tell you what the hell is the difference on the system between 10.8.2 and 10.8.3 and 10.8.4 and so on... For me, usually an update just means "a number changed in About This Mac by one digit." Like everyone, I do them because I like keeping current, but really, I could rarely tell you what any of them actually DO that's any improvement or any different. So waiting a while after an update comes out is not a big hardship in my book.

Also: if you have the same hardware as I do minus the motherboard, I wouldn't bother with the same board as I have. Yes, it works great, but there are much newer/better boards available now. I'd look into an IvyBridge board from TonyMac's recommended hardware list. (And yes, you can use a SandyBridge CPU in an IvB motherboard.) Or possibly wait for guides and hardware lists for Haswell.


*The advantage with full version updates actually goes to the Hackintosh. Much of Apple's hardware gets cut off at a certain point. But a Hack that first ran Leopard can still be running Mountain Lion just fine.

 

[Kaido]

I just built my latest one. Total build time was maybe an hour from boxes of parts to the desktop. If you are smart about it, running a Hackintosh can be a good experience. By that I mean:

1. Choose compatible parts
2. Keep a backup + test your updates

This greatly reduces your risk of getting burned. I affectionately refer to my Hackintosh as my "science experiment" - however, it's been my primary machine for years now. The only working Mac I have in the house now is a decorative PowerPC G4 Cube, which I keep around just because it's pretty

I went with the Tonymac installation system and chose a board on his recommended list - a nice, compact MicroATX model. It can take an i7 Ivy Bridge chip, up to 32 gigs of RAM, SATA-III SSD's, etc. I went with an ATI 6870 GPU for video editing purposes. Build & installation were a breeze. As long as you recognize that YOU are the tech support for your Hackintosh, you'll be okay. A lot of people dive right in with high expectations and low preparation, which is fine, but don't expect stellar results if you don't plan things out.

As it stands now, I'm sitting here typing this post on my new quad-core Core-i7 Hackintosh, which is fully-functional and, so far, rock-solid. I just queued up some video projects for the evening and it's burning right through them. Just keep in mind that there ARE bugs, that not *everything* works 100%, that updates can be sketchy, that the whole thing can make you tear your hair out. If you want a seamless experience, buy a Mac. If you want customizable power on a budget (I think my whole rig was just shy of $1500 with an i7, tons of RAM, SSD boot drive, terabytes of drive space, card reader, ATI card, etc.), then maybe Hackintosh is for you. Just remember, you're doing it on your dime & on your time, so you have to deal with all of the bugs that come with playing the game. With that said, I've been in Hackintosh for years & really enjoy it. Things are pretty great these days. My new rig is a beast & so far it's treating me awesome!

 

[purbeast0]

i just intsalled 10.8.3 on an hp laptop and the process couldn't have been easier. everything is running extremely smoothly and i'm so glad that i spent $550 on a laptop instead of $1600+ on the equivalent retina one, although the retina ones are freaking badass.

 

[Eug]

Just keep in mind that there ARE bugs, that not *everything* works 100%, that updates can be sketchy, that the whole thing can make you tear your hair out. If you want a seamless experience, buy a Mac.

Indeed.

 

[Kaido]

Indeed.

And that's really only the case until you get the hang of it, or if you don't buy compatible parts & follow guides. There are tools out there that make it super easy - I bought a supported board that Tonymac recommended (B75), used the installer that already had all the drivers, and had my new Hackintosh from boxes to desktop in about an hour. It was pretty seamless, but (1) I know what I'm doing, and (2) I chose compatible parts with a supported software install. So yes, it's possible to have a (fairly) seamless Hackintosh experience, but it usually takes some background & planning to get there.

 

[Zaap]

To avoid the usual disinformation, let's have a list of things that *work in real Mac* that don't on a Hackintosh. Sometimes I see this stated, then the list contains obscure hardware that doesn't even list Mac drivers. And of course all this missing the point that there's tons of Mac hardware that won't work in a real Mac. Example: Have fun with that Blackmagic PCI card in your iMac or Mac Mini.

Off the top of my head the only thing I can think of is: Firewire Target Disk Mode.

A while back iMessage was broken, but since then it works fine.

I'm sure there's other stuff, just can't think of anything I've actually encountered lately, certainly nothing that matters to me.