Half-Life 2 - PAY as you PLAY!...

Shagga

Diamond Member
Nov 9, 1999
4,421
0
76
A fan by the name of Kamakiri mailed Valve's Gabe Newell about those "pay to play" rumors, and received the following response (which has been confirmed as being legit):
As I'm sure you are aware the HL2 community is going crazy with the rumour that HL2 is going to be like a MMORPG and you will have to pay a fee each month via Steam to play HL2 multiplayer.
I don't believe this to be true but can you please put it to rest once and for all. PLEEEEEEASE.

Gabe Newell: Here's my current thinking: Some people want to buy Half-Life 2 in a store. Right now we have three SKUs planned at three price points. One will have single-player only and not play MODs and we think of that as the mass market SKU (sold mainly at the Costcos and Walmarts of the world). The second is our traditional single-player plus multiplayer SKU that runs MODs and is sold at places like EBX. The third is the collector's edition SKU with lots of cool bonus stuff for people who like cool bonus stuff.

In the Steam world, some people will want to buy it once, like the middle SKU above. Other people will want to buy the game on subscription (e.g. $9.95/month). The good news for the "buy it once" crowd is, well, they only have to pay once. The bad news is that when we come out with new content (expansion products, TF 2, and presumably other games) then they have to pay separately for those. We're pretty sure that the $9.95 guys are going to get the better value, as we've been pretty good over the years at generating a lot of content.

Now nobody has done this before, so we're scratching our heads and massaging the plans to make sure we've got the best set of options. We've had some feedback that we should sell the top SKU (single-player only no MODs) on Steam, and my reaction has been "yeah, right, for the three people in the world who have a broadband connection, are sophisticated enough to purchase software over the Internet, but DON'T want to play MODs and multiplayer". Some people have said "I want a subscription, but I think the box and the manual are cool, so what about sending me those" and I think that's pretty interesting and we're trying to figure out what to do for them (needless to say Sierra isn't exactly jumping for joy at the idea of selling us boxes so people don't buy Half-Life 2 in stores).

But nowhere has there been a suggestion that people pay in the store and then pay a monthly fee on top of that a la the MMORPG.

And Gabe makes this follow-up response in this forum thread -

The various SKUs will be available at the other stores. It's just how we think of them (we think of the lowest price one as the "Walmart" SKU even though Walmart will probably be the biggest single seller of all three SKUs given their volume).
TF2 isn't a MOD, correct. However the subscription will be for anything we make. So when TF2 ships, the subscribers get it as part of their subscription.

We've been talking with retailers about the retail SKUs for a long time. Steam pricing was what I was trying to explain. Steam options seemed to require an explanation of the retail SKUs.

This clears up a lot, and I think this is the first public mention of the collector's special super edition. Oh, if you don't know what an SKU is, "SKU stands for Stock Keeping Unit and is a number associated with a product for inventory purposes. Each product must have a SKU, and each SKU must be unique."
 

ClueLis

Platinum Member
Jul 2, 2003
2,269
0
0
I thihnk what it means is that you have to pay extra for the version that lets you use multiplayer.
 

Davegod

Platinum Member
Nov 26, 2001
2,874
0
76
the idea of all these seperate packs is a bad one imo. One all-inclusive pack plus one steam-subscription, if they really want the steam thing. People will be SO happy to buy a game then have to buy it again if they decide they want to play MP. Even then, what if you buy the shop box and then realise you're a hardcore HL2 mofo and want the benefits of steam - pay twice? Players without cable or *dsl just do not have the option of Steam, though I suspect ISDN'ers like myself would see CD's of updates and maps etc being posted as a significant value added, if they arrive at around the same time the updates hit the web.

basically i think they want to cash in on the modding scene (lol tbh) and the long life HL has had, but realise only a tiny % of the market are ready for something like Steam.

too much complication just to play a game.
 

CrowDog

Golden Member
Jun 7, 2001
1,709
8
81
Sounds whack to me. Another set up to get more money out of consumers (M$ anyone?)...

Im not sure what makes these people think thier games are worth SO MUCH MONEY! Im basicly refering to the pay extra for multiplayer feature...so this means Valve will be hosting a massive amount of servers themselves to justify the extra cost? If not then the people who run servers will need to pay extra and pay to run thier own server?

It all sounds whack and adds to my thinking of how this industry going downhill....no wonder we have piracy!
 

DefRef

Diamond Member
Nov 9, 2000
4,041
1
81
A co-worker mentioned this in connection to an article by some whining Brit who felt slighted because Vavle didn't stop work on HL2 to provide the ECTS show with new footage. Boo-friggedy-hoo....

What's lost in all the IGNORANT posts about the prices of games is that YOU AREN'T PAYING MORE FOR MULTI-PLAYER, YOU'RE PAYING LESS FOR SINGLE-PLAYER!!! If the full version of HL2 is $50, the SP-only version may be $10-$20 LESS to make it appealing to those who may never play online. This isn't greed, it's savvy marketing.

Now, this Steam subscription thing sounds stupid and when people look at it, they'll prolly respond like they did to EA failures, Sims Online and Motor City Online. We'll see.

Im not sure what makes these people think thier games are worth SO MUCH MONEY! Im basicly refering to the pay extra for multiplayer feature...

As I've explained, it's not extra for MP, unless you believe that $30 should be the price for all versions.

It all sounds whack and adds to my thinking of how this industry going downhill....no wonder we have piracy!

I blame a poor educational system that has programmed people to believe that a corporation doesn't have the right to charge what they believe the market will bear for their products. Don't like the price? DON'T BUY IT!!!! It doesn't entitle you to pirate anything. Learn some patience, kids. I bought THPS4 for my Xbox on sale for $38 last Xmas, now it's a $20 Platinum Hit title. Oh well.
 

CrowDog

Golden Member
Jun 7, 2001
1,709
8
81
Originally posted by: DefRef
A co-worker mentioned this in connection to an article by some whining Brit who felt slighted because Vavle didn't stop work on HL2 to provide the ECTS show with new footage. Boo-friggedy-hoo....

What's lost in all the IGNORANT posts about the prices of games is that YOU AREN'T PAYING MORE FOR MULTI-PLAYER, YOU'RE PAYING LESS FOR SINGLE-PLAYER!!! If the full version of HL2 is $50, the SP-only version may be $10-$20 LESS to make it appealing to those who may never play online. This isn't greed, it's savvy marketing.

Now, this Steam subscription thing sounds stupid and when people look at it, they'll prolly respond like they did to EA failures, Sims Online and Motor City Online. We'll see.

Im not sure what makes these people think thier games are worth SO MUCH MONEY! Im basicly refering to the pay extra for multiplayer feature...

As I've explained, it's not extra for MP, unless you believe that $30 should be the price for all versions.

It all sounds whack and adds to my thinking of how this industry going downhill....no wonder we have piracy!



I blame a poor educational system that has programmed people to believe that a corporation doesn't have the right to charge what they believe the market will bear for their products. Don't like the price? DON'T BUY IT!!!! It doesn't entitle you to pirate anything. Learn some patience, kids. I bought THPS4 for my Xbox on sale for $38 last Xmas, now it's a $20 Platinum Hit title. Oh well.


So you come into a thread and call people ignorant tell them how much they should pay for a game and tell us what corporations have the "right" to do...and then have the balls to call us "kids"....lol

And yes I do believe games should be $30,...they "charge what the market will bear for thier products"?..!!!lol...they charge what rich parents might buy for thier kids during the hollidays...what educational system did you grow up in? If people paid $50 for even half of the games they wanted to play then these "corporations" would be doing alot better....

I have a feeling you just posted in this thread after reading a post to flame without giving what you type a whole lotta thought...
 

flxnimprtmscl

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2003
7,962
2
0
Originally posted by: CrowDog
Originally posted by: DefRef
A co-worker mentioned this in connection to an article by some whining Brit who felt slighted because Vavle didn't stop work on HL2 to provide the ECTS show with new footage. Boo-friggedy-hoo....

What's lost in all the IGNORANT posts about the prices of games is that YOU AREN'T PAYING MORE FOR MULTI-PLAYER, YOU'RE PAYING LESS FOR SINGLE-PLAYER!!! If the full version of HL2 is $50, the SP-only version may be $10-$20 LESS to make it appealing to those who may never play online. This isn't greed, it's savvy marketing.

Now, this Steam subscription thing sounds stupid and when people look at it, they'll prolly respond like they did to EA failures, Sims Online and Motor City Online. We'll see.

Im not sure what makes these people think thier games are worth SO MUCH MONEY! Im basicly refering to the pay extra for multiplayer feature...

As I've explained, it's not extra for MP, unless you believe that $30 should be the price for all versions.

It all sounds whack and adds to my thinking of how this industry going downhill....no wonder we have piracy!


I blame a poor educational system that has programmed people to believe that a corporation doesn't have the right to charge what they believe the market will bear for their products. Don't like the price? DON'T BUY IT!!!! It doesn't entitle you to pirate anything. Learn some patience, kids. I bought THPS4 for my Xbox on sale for $38 last Xmas, now it's a $20 Platinum Hit title. Oh well.


So you come into a thread and call people ignorant tell them how much they should pay for a game and tell us what corporations have the "right" to do...and then have the balls to call us "kids"....lol

And yes I do believe games should be $30,...they "charge what the market will bear for thier products"?..!!!lol...they charge what rich parents might buy for thier kids during the hollidays...what educational system did you grow up in? If people paid $50 for even half of the games they wanted to play then these "corporations" would be doing alot better....

I have a feeling you just posted in this thread after reading a post to flame without giving what you type a whole lotta thought...

Sorry to say but defref is right. Don't like it then don't buy it. If people quit paying their high (in your opinion) prices then prices will drop.

I remember when VHS movies came out and were $80 or so a piece. I bet you screamed bloody murder about that (if you're old enough to remember it).

They made the game. You didn't. They have the right to charge whatever they wan't. You don't have the right to decide for them what you think is an acceptable price. You do however have the right not to pay it if you feel it's not worth your money. Excercise the right you do have or don't complain.
 

DefRef

Diamond Member
Nov 9, 2000
4,041
1
81
Unlike you (apparently), I live in the REAL WORLD where I have to work and pay my bills and make choices about where my money goes. I grew up really poor and learned early on that bargain hunting is a mandatory life skill. (Hot Deals rocks!)

Instead of me defending myself against your ignorance and immaturity, how about YOU explaining how you fantisize corporations work? Valve has been working for FIVE YEARS to produce HL2. The budget for AAA titles run into the millions and the developer DOES NOT MAKE THE FULL $50!!! I've got to yell here because I'm trying to be heard thru the solid bone of your otherwise empty skull. According to Gamasutra's Post Mortem on Neverwinter Nights:

Number of Full-time Developers: 75 at peak, representing approximately 160 man-years of development

Number of External Staff and Contractors: Approximately 40 QA testers at Infogrames, 5 sound contractors, and 20 translators

Project Length : Approximately 5 years


A company invests a fortune in time and treasure, with no guarantee that they'll move unit Numero Uno, and some spoiled brat (or adult, hell, you could be 100 for all it matters) pompously decrees, "Too expensive. What a rip-off. F*ck them up their stupid asses! I'm gonna pirate it! I'm totally justified." , and they may as well head off to Chapter 11.

Either PC Gamer or MaxPC did a breakdown of where the money goes and the developer gets a fraction of the MSRP. Gabe Newell isn't going to be rolling in $50 bills with every HL2 box sold, it may be $4-$10 ea., if that. Sierra gets paid, the retailer (BB, CC EB, etc.) get a cut, the dupers, the delivery people, advertising, etc. - all of it nibbles away at the imagined windfall you're crying about.

Anyone who's taken a single day of ECON101 should know about supply and demand and how prices are determined. It's a testament to the deliberate corruption of the education system by politicians looking for easily manipulated sheep that the first reaction to a price hike is, 'GREEDY COMPANIES!!!!" Pitiful. How does it feel to supply the raw material for so many knit goods? Baaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

RAM used to cost $40 for a single meg, now you can get 256MB of PC3500 for that same $40. If the price were to spike to $50, I could retire if I had a nickel for every ill-informed (but thoroughly self-righteous) nimrod who posted about the Greedy Companies.

Absent from your complaints is the acknowledgement that people have a CHOICE in whether they feel HL2 Lite or Pro is a good deal. You NEED food. You NEED shelter and water. You DON'T NEED Half-Life 2! It's a reminder of just how cushy most people have it when they reserve the most outrage for the most trivial entertainment. If you found yourself in a poor country that has just had 30,000 people killed in an earthquake and the struggle for life and death is a 24/7 reality, I'll bet you'd walk up to someone bleeding from the head and tell them, "Wow, that looks bad, but you know what REALLY sucks? Those bastards at Valve think their stupid game should be priced more than I think it's worth. GREED!!!"

It's a waste of time trying to explain to people like you that it's not just spoiled brats of rich folks who get the $50 games. I'm just trying to prevent your misinformed ravings from misleading others. You don't think prices are fair? Refuse to buy the products, but DO NOT STEAL THEM. You aren't entitled to drive off with a Ferrari because you don't like their prices, so where do you think a game is owed you?

If anything, try to get the basic FACTS right - Valve just SAVED people who may not want the MP part some coin. I bought a cheaper SUV because the sunroof wasn't worth it for me, this is the same sort of thing, not that you'll be able to wrap your mighty intellect around it.
 

CrowDog

Golden Member
Jun 7, 2001
1,709
8
81
Originally posted by: DefRef
Unlike you (apparently), I live in the REAL WORLD where I have to work and pay my bills and make choices about where my money goes. I grew up really poor and learned early on that bargain hunting is a mandatory life skill. (Hot Deals rocks!)

Instead of me defending myself against your ignorance and immaturity, how about YOU explaining how you fantisize corporations work? Valve has been working for FIVE YEARS to produce HL2. The budget for AAA titles run into the millions and the developer DOES NOT MAKE THE FULL $50!!! I've got to yell here because I'm trying to be heard thru the solid bone of your otherwise empty skull. According to Gamasutra's Post Mortem on Neverwinter Nights:

Number of Full-time Developers: 75 at peak, representing approximately 160 man-years of development

Number of External Staff and Contractors: Approximately 40 QA testers at Infogrames, 5 sound contractors, and 20 translators

Project Length : Approximately 5 years


A company invests a fortune in time and treasure, with no guarantee that they'll move unit Numero Uno, and some spoiled brat (or adult, hell, you could be 100 for all it matters) pompously decrees, "Too expensive. What a rip-off. F*ck them up their stupid asses! I'm gonna pirate it! I'm totally justified." , and they may as well head off to Chapter 11.

Either PC Gamer or MaxPC did a breakdown of where the money goes and the developer gets a fraction of the MSRP. Gabe Newell isn't going to be rolling in $50 bills with every HL2 box sold, it may be $4-$10 ea., if that. Sierra gets paid, the retailer (BB, CC EB, etc.) get a cut, the dupers, the delivery people, advertising, etc. - all of it nibbles away at the imagined windfall you're crying about.

Anyone who's taken a single day of ECON101 should know about supply and demand and how prices are determined. It's a testament to the deliberate corruption of the education system by politicians looking for easily manipulated sheep that the first reaction to a price hike is, 'GREEDY COMPANIES!!!!" Pitiful. How does it feel to supply the raw material for so many knit goods? Baaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

RAM used to cost $40 for a single meg, now you can get 256MB of PC3500 for that same $40. If the price were to spike to $50, I could retire if I had a nickel for every ill-informed (but thoroughly self-righteous) nimrod who posted about the Greedy Companies.

Absent from your complaints is the acknowledgement that people have a CHOICE in whether they feel HL2 Lite or Pro is a good deal. You NEED food. You NEED shelter and water. You DON'T NEED Half-Life 2! It's a reminder of just how cushy most people have it when they reserve the most outrage for the most trivial entertainment. If you found yourself in a poor country that has just had 30,000 people killed in an earthquake and the struggle for life and death is a 24/7 reality, I'll bet you'd walk up to someone bleeding from the head and tell them, "Wow, that looks bad, but you know what REALLY sucks? Those bastards at Valve think their stupid game should be priced more than I think it's worth. GREED!!!"

It's a waste of time trying to explain to people like you that it's not just spoiled brats of rich folks who get the $50 games. I'm just trying to prevent your misinformed ravings from misleading others. You don't think prices are fair? Refuse to buy the products, but DO NOT STEAL THEM. You aren't entitled to drive off with a Ferrari because you don't like their prices, so where do you think a game is owed you?

If anything, try to get the basic FACTS right - Valve just SAVED people who may not want the MP part some coin. I bought a cheaper SUV because the sunroof wasn't worth it for me, this is the same sort of thing, not that you'll be able to wrap your mighty intellect around it.


wow!....all that for a "greedy" ,"ignorant", "kid" that has no money and pays no bills....lol. Based on one opnion of mine about games youve judged my entire manhood and charactor... ....define "ignorant" for me...?

I simply replied to you coming into a thread and calling people names because thier opinion is different from yours! Even if you dont like it, there are a WHOLE LOT of people that share my opinion..."and if you dont like it! dont buy it!". And just so you know...I dont "pirate" games....but I do know that most people who do....share my view on this subject. Nearly everytime I buy some bug ridden, choppy, patch needin pc game I feel as if Ive overpayed!

IN MY OPINION video games are overpriced (Ferraris too)....is that ok with you? Next time Ill PM you and ask you if its ok to post my opinion!

Ill kindly [u} Unhijack [/u} this thread now and apoligize to the originator....
 

DefRef

Diamond Member
Nov 9, 2000
4,041
1
81
It's always fascinating how the people screaming the loudest about how they feel they're being unfairly judged are the ones so blind to their own ignorance. Bub, you don't even know what I'm talking about, but you certainly are raising a holy ruckus about it. It's not threadjacking to correct the incorrect - if you post that the sun rises in the West, it's not threadjacking to point out where you're in error, even if all your friends in Remedial Basket Weaving agree with you.

Is Valve charging more for multi-player capability THAN THEY DID BEFORE? That means, if HL was $50, they're charging more than $50 for HL2 w/MP? Not by my reading of the news stories. BOTH games with MP will cost the same, so all the yelping in the world that Valve is greedy, etc. falls flat for anyone with an IQ above room temperature.

This tiered pricing is brilliant because it offers CHEAPER options for entry than before and doesn't force players to buy features they don't intend to use. I don't play the online portions of most shooters, but I'm paying for them. Valve is giving MORE choices, not that you understand it. If you were gonna play online, you were going to pay $50 for the game anyways, so this has no effect on you and your kind. But, for the online n00b, they can buy the basic game for $30 and then pay for the online part when/if they're ready. It's hella better than the old way in which games came in standard and pricier special versions. No cheap option there.

The subscription plan is dubious. I don't recall Valve releasing the equivalent of a games-worth of content twice a year, so where do they think people are going to go for it? We'll see.
 

MrChad

Lifer
Aug 22, 2001
13,507
3
81
So as I understand it:

Half-Life 2: packaged in the traditional way, includes single- and multi-player game modes, probably around $50
Half-Life 2 "Lite": sold at mass market retail chains, includes single-player mode only, probably around $30
Half-Life 2 Steam version: $9.95 per month, includes single- and multi-player game modes and unlimited expansion packs

The Steam version makes some sense. Say a $30 expansion pack is released 6 months after HL2 comes out. If you paid $50 for the game and $30 for the expansion pack, you've spent $80 total. If you have the subscription, however, you're only out $60. The subscription plan suggests that Valve plans on milking Half-Life 2 for quite a while, because it doesn't make sense to pay a monthly fee unless lots of new content is released on a regular basis.

My question is, say I stop paying the subscription fee after a couple of months. Can I no longer play HL2 in any form? Can I resubscribe later when I want to start playing again?
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Let's WAIT and SEE.

If you DON'T like what Valve is (/may be) doing - do NOT buy the game.

Some innovation is good . . . some is not . . . support what you like by voting with your wallet.

 

HostVisions

Banned
Jan 15, 2002
418
0
0
this thread makes my head hurt.

If Valve wants to charge per month for people to play on their servers, so be it - as long as they keep the server code seperate so that others can run their own FREE servers. If they choose not to do this then I'm afraid HL2 will never been the success that the original was.
 

Ferocious

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2000
4,584
2
71
I'd pay just about anything to re-experience the intense fun I had while playing the original.

So many games are sooo mediocre.

 

Davegod

Platinum Member
Nov 26, 2001
2,874
0
76
Originally posted by: DefRef
blah blah blah.
Less for single player or more for the multiplayer is simply choice of wording on the same lines as half full vs half empty, since nobody knows what the prices for either will be, or the price of what it would be if they only had the one all-inclusive package. Unsurprisngly, most are pessimistic and assume the price of the full game will be greater than normal, else why bother doing it. Everone who considers themselves remotely into PC gaming will buy HL2, and then there's the consoles. They will make a huge amount of money from this so dont give the crap about recovering development costs, that argument works fine on risky games but not on the most hyped game release ever on the sequel to one of the most successful games ever. HL2 probably has more pre-orders than some games sell all year. Savvy marketing = greed, they make a point out of this in marketing classes, end result of efforts should always be higher turnover, increased market share or greater profitability - preferably all at the same time.

Additionally, read my post about concerns e.g. buying one version then realising the other is what was wanted. This isnt only my concern but has popped up frequently in various threads on various boards. Customers have every right to complain about dissapointment and offer concerns regarding value for money, and marketing should always seek to minimise the former and maximise the latter (preferably by value added rather than price reduction). Only idiots stfu and have no chance of guiding things in the direction they would prefer.

Rejoice in my higher education, ignorant peon.
 

DefRef

Diamond Member
Nov 9, 2000
4,041
1
81
They will make a huge amount of money from this so dont give the crap about recovering development costs, that argument works fine on risky games but not on the most hyped game release ever on the sequel to one of the most successful games ever. HL2 probably has more pre-orders than some games sell all year.

Didn't peope say the same about Unreal 2?

Savvy marketing = greed, they make a point out of this in marketing classes

Where are they teaching this, Karl Marx University or Brown? I don't get the virulently anti-profit attitudes of too many people here and elsewhere. Would you like anyone calling YOU greedy if you want a raise from your employer? Greed has been twisted into a slur to keep people from opposing socialism. It's meant to keep people in line for fear of ostracism - you don't want to be called "greedy", do you? Better toe the line.

Additionally, read my post about concerns e.g. buying one version then realising the other is what was wanted. This isnt only my concern but has popped up frequently in various threads on various boards.

If the boxes are clearly labeled "Lite Version. Single Player Only. No Online Play" and people are too dumb to read, then why should I care? If it's $30 for the Lite version and a $20 charge to DL the MP vs. $50 up front, what's the problem? As I explained above, it's foolish to cry greed when nothing has changed. Were the same people making noise here griping about Warcraft 3 selling for $60 in the first few weeks to clip the impatient?

Customers have every right to complain about dissapointment and offer concerns regarding value for money, and marketing should always seek to minimise the former and maximise the latter (preferably by value added rather than price reduction).

What disappointment are you referring to? The pain that comes that you're too illiterate to read a frigging box?!? Has society declined so far that people need to be protected from their own idiotic actions like holding hot coffee in their laps? OK, that's a bad example, but you know what I mean. (Or maybe not, considering the nasty posts here.) I bought a pair of Air Jordans once, but I still can't dunk. Should I complain about my disappointment over not being able to fly like Mike?

Gamers have become incredibly spoiled and demanding when they've got no right to be. Do developers OWE it to their customers to supply them with mod tools, free updates and map packs, etc. to extend the life of the game over several years? Absolutely not! Beyond providing patches to fix bugs, they really don't have to provide squat in the way of extra content to buyers. Does EA provide free roster updates for their games? Heck no! You want to play as the hot new rookie, that'll be $50 please, thanks for shopping at K-Mart. Where is your outrage at their "greed"?

After UT2K3 came out, there have been 2 major map packs and updates that have added game types and maps to the game at no charge at all. In the FPS communtity it's kind of a given, but it's not a Constitutionally protected right. You have no right to an extra "Lara Croft's Lesbian Adventure" downloadable add-on. If Valve simply said, "Here's Half-Life 2. It's only single player. No multi-player or online play is included and no plans to add it exist. There will be no expansions or add-ons provided by us and our tools are proprietary, so mods will not be permitted with our code. It will sell for $50.", they would be totally justified and within their rights as a company. It'd be certain commercial suicide, but whatever. Remember, this is basically how Unreal 2 went out. Were there protests then? If so, I didn't hear them.

What's saddest about this whole thread is how so many people are operating on incorrect assumptions and then attacking anyone who dares correct them or offer a countering opinion. Taking the abuse into private messages doesn't change the fact that wishing to know where someone lives (to what - beat me up?) because someone differed over a stupid GAME is downright frightening. Egos are so fragile and skins are so thin that this is natural and accepted behavior? Pathetic. Grow up, people.
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,939
6
81
Originally posted by: MrChad
So as I understand it:

Half-Life 2: packaged in the traditional way, includes single- and multi-player game modes, probably around $50
Half-Life 2 "Lite": sold at mass market retail chains, includes single-player mode only, probably around $30
Half-Life 2 Steam version: $9.95 per month, includes single- and multi-player game modes and unlimited expansion packs

The Steam version makes some sense. Say a $30 expansion pack is released 6 months after HL2 comes out. If you paid $50 for the game and $30 for the expansion pack, you've spent $80 total. If you have the subscription, however, you're only out $60. The subscription plan suggests that Valve plans on milking Half-Life 2 for quite a while, because it doesn't make sense to pay a monthly fee unless lots of new content is released on a regular basis.

My question is, say I stop paying the subscription fee after a couple of months. Can I no longer play HL2 in any form? Can I resubscribe later when I want to start playing again?

I expect you will be able to keep playing, but you will have to pay for any packs etc released in the meantime.

What you have posted is also what I interpreted from reading the original post, that there will be 3 versions to appeal to different market segments. Dialup people might only want the SP experience, why pay for MP as well? MP people might want lots of extra content (which Valve says it will release) and maybe no the SP, so why pay fr full retail when you can get mods and everything else downloaded on your super fast connection?
Some people might want something in between, if they don't want to have to download lots of internet content, so might buy the game and then purchase add-ons seperately.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
Originally posted by: DefRef
They will make a huge amount of money from this so dont give the crap about recovering development costs, that argument works fine on risky games but not on the most hyped game release ever on the sequel to one of the most successful games ever. HL2 probably has more pre-orders than some games sell all year.

Didn't peope say the same about Unreal 2?

Savvy marketing = greed, they make a point out of this in marketing classes

Where are they teaching this, Karl Marx University or Brown? I don't get the virulently anti-profit attitudes of too many people here and elsewhere. Would you like anyone calling YOU greedy if you want a raise from your employer? Greed has been twisted into a slur to keep people from opposing socialism. It's meant to keep people in line for fear of ostracism - you don't want to be called "greedy", do you? Better toe the line.

Additionally, read my post about concerns e.g. buying one version then realising the other is what was wanted. This isnt only my concern but has popped up frequently in various threads on various boards.

If the boxes are clearly labeled "Lite Version. Single Player Only. No Online Play" and people are too dumb to read, then why should I care? If it's $30 for the Lite version and a $20 charge to DL the MP vs. $50 up front, what's the problem? As I explained above, it's foolish to cry greed when nothing has changed. Were the same people making noise here griping about Warcraft 3 selling for $60 in the first few weeks to clip the impatient?

Customers have every right to complain about dissapointment and offer concerns regarding value for money, and marketing should always seek to minimise the former and maximise the latter (preferably by value added rather than price reduction).

What disappointment are you referring to? The pain that comes that you're too illiterate to read a frigging box?!? Has society declined so far that people need to be protected from their own idiotic actions like holding hot coffee in their laps? OK, that's a bad example, but you know what I mean. (Or maybe not, considering the nasty posts here.) I bought a pair of Air Jordans once, but I still can't dunk. Should I complain about my disappointment over not being able to fly like Mike?

Gamers have become incredibly spoiled and demanding when they've got no right to be. Do developers OWE it to their customers to supply them with mod tools, free updates and map packs, etc. to extend the life of the game over several years? Absolutely not! Beyond providing patches to fix bugs, they really don't have to provide squat in the way of extra content to buyers. Does EA provide free roster updates for their games? Heck no! You want to play as the hot new rookie, that'll be $50 please, thanks for shopping at K-Mart. Where is your outrage at their "greed"?

After UT2K3 came out, there have been 2 major map packs and updates that have added game types and maps to the game at no charge at all. In the FPS communtity it's kind of a given, but it's not a Constitutionally protected right. You have no right to an extra "Lara Croft's Lesbian Adventure" downloadable add-on. If Valve simply said, "Here's Half-Life 2. It's only single player. No multi-player or online play is included and no plans to add it exist. There will be no expansions or add-ons provided by us and our tools are proprietary, so mods will not be permitted with our code. It will sell for $50.", they would be totally justified and within their rights as a company. It'd be certain commercial suicide, but whatever. Remember, this is basically how Unreal 2 went out. Were there protests then? If so, I didn't hear them.

What's saddest about this whole thread is how so many people are operating on incorrect assumptions and then attacking anyone who dares correct them or offer a countering opinion. Taking the abuse into private messages doesn't change the fact that wishing to know where someone lives (to what - beat me up?) because someone differed over a stupid GAME is downright frightening. Egos are so fragile and skins are so thin that this is natural and accepted behavior? Pathetic. Grow up, people.

I think I like your writing style. Very verbose and rational. (And no, that's not sarcasm; I mean it.)
The company can do what it wants with its marketing system. And the way this looks thus far - a discounted single player only version, as well as the regular package and that monthly thing - seems like a good idea. It's looking to attract even more people - those looking to buy a full game can still do so, for the regular new-game price of ~$50. If you're not quite sure about this whole Half-Life world, try the cheaper $30 or $10 versions. That way, they get the business of multiple demographics.
 

Davegod

Platinum Member
Nov 26, 2001
2,874
0
76
I notice you didnt try to repond to "Only idiots stfu and have no chance of guiding things in the direction they would prefer". It's always amusing how people doing the quoting game are so selective, so they can argue about points never made or as if from a completely different perspective.

Dont you think youre as little over the top compared to the posts your arguing against here? Where's the "holy ruckus"? The "virulently anti-profit attitudes"? At least 3/4 of what youre arguing against nobody even mentioned, so stfu and take your bs trolling elsewhere.
 

DefRef

Diamond Member
Nov 9, 2000
4,041
1
81
I notice you didnt try to repond to "Only idiots stfu and have no chance of guiding things in the direction they would prefer".

It didn't merit a response (and was grammatically incoherent to boot!)

If you think flooding BBSes with boo-boo-kitty posts complaining about things that aren't actually happening amounts to "guiding things in the direction they would prefer", then you've been fed a load of manure about what constitutes effective protesting.

Last week's outcry against Activision giving the Call of Duty demo exclusively to File Planet paid subscribers was effective because it was based on legitimate fariness issues and appealed to Activision's self-interest in not p***ing off people and sites who constitute their customers and promoters. Crying like ignorant, spoiled babies and calling Valve greedy when they haven't raised prices that anyone has actually seen is just plain stupid. Sorry that some of you feel all chapped because I dumped a bucket of cold reality on your pity party, but maybe you'll learn to read all the words before you fill your diapers in the future.

The subject line of this thread is misleading - "Half-Life 2 - PAY as you PLAY!" - that sounds like you could have to pay per minute while you play or that the Steam subscription option was going to be the ONLY way you could buy and play HL2. The tenor of the posts and the angry reaction to my comments indicates that some people were operating under this incorrect thesis and would rather be wrong to the bitter end than change their tone when presented with FACTS.

"Cheaper versions of HL2 available!" would've been more accurate, but then people wouldn't have been able to get all needlessly upset and we can't have that, now can we?
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |