Halloween is SATANIC! No, get ready for Jesusween!

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nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,570
12,874
136
Jesus was more lawyer than prophet.

In fact...I'm inclined to believe in him being God for the sole reason he was lawyering the pros....without any apparent pro education.
You've just found a new hammer and now everything looks like a nail.

Of course, Jesus found nails handy too.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,989
8,701
136
Have you done any research into this topic? It's a valid question. There are outside non-biblical sources that reference Jesus' miracles, as well multiple accounts of these miracles in the four gospels.
Again I'm not that interested in the Jesus bit. There's written accounts of supernatural beings and events across the world. Do you believe that Odin exists, Dionysus or Vishnu?

Think about what you are saying. That the universe runs in a fundamentally different way than all the evidence shows. That anything and everything is subject to the whims of magic. And the bar for that belief is just that there are some old written texts.

I mean there's absolute evidence the Ron Howard existed but that doesn't mean that Scientology is true!
 

pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
7,580
3,125
136
Again I'm not that interested in the Jesus bit. There's written accounts of supernatural beings and events across the world. Do you believe that Odin exists, Dionysus or Vishnu?

Think about what you are saying. That the universe runs in a fundamentally different way than all the evidence shows. That anything and everything is subject to the whims of magic. And the bar for that belief is just that there are some old written texts.

I mean there's absolute evidence the Ron Howard existed but that doesn't mean that Scientology is true!
I think interest in the Jesus bit is actually a critical part in all of it. If a man performs miracles, heals people, predicts his own death and resurrection, then dies in the manner he predicted and then returned from dead, I would listen to what he had to say about the creation of the world.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,578
1,741
126
Have you done any research into this topic? It's a valid question. There are outside non-biblical sources that reference Jesus' miracles, as well multiple accounts of these miracles in the four gospels.

Where are these non Christian outside sources that prove Jesus did miracles? There are none as far as I know, and I've watched quite a few debates between atheist and Christians. There are Jesus miracles in the four gospels but the problem is the bible was written by Christians. To rely solely on the bible would be a circular fallacy, and special pleading. Another fallacy. And, if you are going to accept the Jesus miracles in the miracles, you must accept all of the other religious miracles that happened throughout history. Did the prophet Muhammad split the moon with his finger and ride a winged horse into heaven? Its in the holy Quran so it must be true?

Fallacies: Cognitive bias, circular, and special pleading.
 
Reactions: lxskllr

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,578
1,741
126
I think interest in the Jesus bit is actually a critical part in all of it. If a man performs miracles, heals people, predicts his own death and resurrection, then dies in the manner he predicted and then returned from dead, I would listen to what he had to say about the creation of the world.

Again, where are you pulling this imformation that Jesus did miracles? We need an outside source for which we don't have any.

Also, if you are going to go into prophecy there is a HUGE issue. we need to go to te original text, which is found in the Jewish Tanakh. Can you read Hebrew, because in the original text it says nothing about the birth of Jesus, or jesus predicting his own death. The text had been altered by church leaders at the time so they could fool others into the Christian fold.

 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,989
8,701
136
I think interest in the Jesus bit is actually a critical part in all of it. If a man performs miracles, heals people, predicts his own death and resurrection, then dies in the manner he predicted and then returned from dead, I would listen to what he had to say about the creation of the world.
But there are stories of loads of people doing magic/miracles it's just that you reject most of them as fantasy.
Honestly I think that the Jesus bit just gets in the way of understanding what you believe in!
You believe that an entity can control all matter in the universe with just a thought and the evidence you have for that is stuff that was written 2000 years ago. Does that not sound like something that needs a fairly hefty amount of evidence?
 

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
11,210
1,080
126
But there are stories of loads of people doing magic/miracles it's just that you reject most of them as fantasy.
Honestly I think that the Jesus bit just gets in the way of understanding what you believe in!
You believe that an entity can control all matter in the universe with just a thought and the evidence you have for that is stuff that was written 2000 years ago. Does that not sound like something that needs a fairly hefty amount of evidence?
I'm noticing your posts. I've been there.

People appeal to emotions far more than logic.

Again, you have incredibly smart and smarter people than me that are believers.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,989
8,701
136
I'm noticing your posts. I've been there.
I mean I'm not that invested in it but I am very interested in how people think about things!
People appeal to emotions far more than logic.
Well yeah. But surely people do a bit of "does this stand up logically" thinking before going "yup. This is definitely how the universe works"?
Again, you have incredibly smart and smarter people than me that are believers.
And I'm very interested in how they can reconcile their "I believe this because it make me feel better" with "I can't think too deeply about this because it would all fall apart" thing.
Pppl
 

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
11,210
1,080
126
I mean I'm not that invested in it but I am very interested in how people think about things!

Well yeah. But surely people do a bit of "does this stand up logically" thinking before going "yup. This is definitely how the universe works"?

And I'm very interested in how they can reconcile their "I believe this because it make me feel better" with "I can't think too deeply about this because it would all fall apart" thing.
Pppl
Also, some just don't even think or even occur to challenge.

When I described my disillusionment with Christianity to my fellow church going cousin, he looked at me and said, "Why are you questioning it?"

I was speechless.
 

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
11,210
1,080
126
I mean I'm not that invested in it but I am very interested in how people think about things!

Well yeah. But surely people do a bit of "does this stand up logically" thinking before going "yup. This is definitely how the universe works"?

And I'm very interested in how they can reconcile their "I believe this because it make me feel better" with "I can't think too deeply about this because it would all fall apart" thing.
Pppl
Just like life, there are all cases of how people believe in religions vs logic:

1. They just make an implicit exception. Surgeons that do work in the name of God, genuinely pray for the best outcome before, etc. Cry together when it's successful. Lawyer who do good work based on preaching of Jesus Christ - you name it.

2. They genuinely believe in apologetics (An historically accurate attempt of Bible - e.g. Noah's flood was caused by the swelling of blah blah, etc)

3. They just don't think that far. This happens to smart people too - again, doctors, engineers, my enterprise software architect, lawyers, or servers, bus drivers, etc. They go to church, have a great time praying and reflect, socialize with the fellow church group, have lunch, go home.

4. "That's the whole point of leap of faith!"

I think most people are 3 & 4. And then 1. More curious folks are 2. And if it really doesn't add up, 2 becomes a nonbeliever.
 
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