Hamas Spiritual Leader Killed by Israelis

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Sharon need to go, this guys is insane. Israel needs a better leader!

compared to arafat, he's practically an angel. arafat has been behind every road block on the path to peace. course its pretty obvious considering he basically heads a terrorist organization and is in a nice little coalition with the others. i mean seriously, the guy has 70 thousand armed security force guys under his rule. more security per capita then anywhere else in the world, yet he cannot stop terror? he simply doens't want to. he wants the palestinians to suffer, to not have stability, to keep them angry and to keep the fight up. its the only way he can keep war ferver up. seriously, the palestinian leadership have shat all over their people from day 1. they've recieved more aid per capita then europe during the marshal plan, and nothing has been built but bombs.

realy Sharon is an angel! this is what Sharon did:

Sharon began his military career at a young age, when he became involved in fighting with the Israeli Haganah, leading commando units specialising in behind-the-lines raids and forcing Palestinians to flee their homes.
In August 1953, Sharon founded and led the infamous Unit 101, which carried out a series of terror raids across the Israeli borders into refugee camps, villages and Bedouin encampments.

In September 1953, he led the Unit 101 in an attack on Bedouins in demilitarised Al Auja (a 145 square km juncture at the western Negev-Sinai frontier), killing an unknown number.

October 14, 1953, Sharon led Unit 101 into an attack on the village of Qibya in Jordan. Under his command, Israeli soldiers moved about in the village blowing up buildings, firing into doorways and windows with automatic weapons and throwing hand grenades, killing 69 civilians (mostly women and children). He later claimed he believed that the demolished houses had been empty of inhabitants, but according to the UN observer who inspected the scene, ?One story was repeated time after time: the bullet splintered door, the body sprawled across the threshold, indicating that the inhabitants had been forced by heavy fire to stay inside until their homes were blown up over them.?

In 1971 - The ?Pacification? of Gaza. Under the euphemistic title the ?Pacification of Gaza,? Sharon imposed a brutal policy of repression, blowing up houses, bulldozing large tracts of refugee camps, imposing severe collective punishments and imprisoning hundreds of young Palestinians. Numerous civilians were killed or unjustly imprisoned, their houses demolished and the whole area was effectively transformed into a jail.

In 1977, the Likud party won the general election under Begin. Sharon joined Begin?s first administration as Minister of Agriculture in charge of settlements; an avid supporter of the religious Gush Emunim movement he was one of main facilitators of a settlement boom aimed in part at preventing the establishment of a Palestinian state in the occupied territories.

In 1982 ?Peace for the Galilee.? As Defense Minister Sharon masterminded the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon, which he dubbed the ?Peace for the Galilee.? In all, this operation killed many thousands of civilians and rendered nearly half a million homeless.

On June 5,1982, he sent tens of thousands of Israeli soldiers across the border to fight their way up the Lebanese coast. They eventually occupied Beirut. Heavy Israeli sea, air and land bombardment devastated a substantial portion of Lebanon. By the end of July, the Lebanese government stated that at least 14,000 people had been killed - over 90% of whom were unarmed civilians - and twice that number seriously wounded.

August 12 became known as Black Thursday after a massive artillery barrage lasting some 11 hours killing some 500 Lebanese & Palestinian civilians.

On September 15, 1982, after the evacuation of PLO fighters from Beirut on the condition of international protection for the Palestinian and Lebanese civilians in the region, Sharon invaded Beirut. Ariel Sharon declaring that this was in order to dislodge 2000 Palestinian fighters remaining in the city. The task of purging the camps Sharon gave to the Phalange (Lebanese force armed by and closely allied with Israel since the onset of Lebanon?s civil war in 1975).

Sabra & Shatila: The slaughter in the camps at Sabra and Shatila took place between 6:00pm on September 16 and 8:00 am on September 18, 1982 in an area under the control of the Israeli army. Sharon?s troops, having held the camps under siege, allowed Phalangists to enter. Israeli searchlights illuminated the camps, while Israeli army personnel watched through binoculars as the death squads spread unchallenged through the camps. Whole families were murdered, many were raped and tortured before being killed. So many bodies were heaped into lorries and taken away, or buried in mass graves, that the exact toll will never be known, but Palestinian sources estimate at least 2000 people were killed.

On September 28, 2000, Ariel Sharon's incursion into Al Aqsa sanctuary accompanied by at least 1,000 armed soldiers and police officers triggered the outbreak of the current crisis that has so far led to the death of hundreds of Palestinians and the wounding of thousands

This man is a terrorist period

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Sharon need to go, this guys is insane. Israel needs a better leader!

compared to arafat, he's practically an angel. arafat has been behind every road block on the path to peace. course its pretty obvious considering he basically heads a terrorist organization and is in a nice little coalition with the others. i mean seriously, the guy has 70 thousand armed security force guys under his rule. more security per capita then anywhere else in the world, yet he cannot stop terror? he simply doens't want to. he wants the palestinians to suffer, to not have stability, to keep them angry and to keep the fight up. its the only way he can keep war ferver up. seriously, the palestinian leadership have shat all over their people from day 1. they've recieved more aid per capita then europe during the marshal plan, and nothing has been built but bombs.

realy Sharon is an angel! this is what Sharon did:


So, this israel and palastine war, How exactly did it start??

Sharon began his military career at a young age, when he became involved in fighting with the Israeli Haganah, leading commando units specialising in behind-the-lines raids and forcing Palestinians to flee their homes.
In August 1953, Sharon founded and led the infamous Unit 101, which carried out a series of terror raids across the Israeli borders into refugee camps, villages and Bedouin encampments.

In September 1953, he led the Unit 101 in an attack on Bedouins in demilitarised Al Auja (a 145 square km juncture at the western Negev-Sinai frontier), killing an unknown number.

October 14, 1953, Sharon led Unit 101 into an attack on the village of Qibya in Jordan. Under his command, Israeli soldiers moved about in the village blowing up buildings, firing into doorways and windows with automatic weapons and throwing hand grenades, killing 69 civilians (mostly women and children). He later claimed he believed that the demolished houses had been empty of inhabitants, but according to the UN observer who inspected the scene, ?One story was repeated time after time: the bullet splintered door, the body sprawled across the threshold, indicating that the inhabitants had been forced by heavy fire to stay inside until their homes were blown up over them.?

In 1971 - The ?Pacification? of Gaza. Under the euphemistic title the ?Pacification of Gaza,? Sharon imposed a brutal policy of repression, blowing up houses, bulldozing large tracts of refugee camps, imposing severe collective punishments and imprisoning hundreds of young Palestinians. Numerous civilians were killed or unjustly imprisoned, their houses demolished and the whole area was effectively transformed into a jail.

In 1977, the Likud party won the general election under Begin. Sharon joined Begin?s first administration as Minister of Agriculture in charge of settlements; an avid supporter of the religious Gush Emunim movement he was one of main facilitators of a settlement boom aimed in part at preventing the establishment of a Palestinian state in the occupied territories.

In 1982 ?Peace for the Galilee.? As Defense Minister Sharon masterminded the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon, which he dubbed the ?Peace for the Galilee.? In all, this operation killed many thousands of civilians and rendered nearly half a million homeless.

On June 5,1982, he sent tens of thousands of Israeli soldiers across the border to fight their way up the Lebanese coast. They eventually occupied Beirut. Heavy Israeli sea, air and land bombardment devastated a substantial portion of Lebanon. By the end of July, the Lebanese government stated that at least 14,000 people had been killed - over 90% of whom were unarmed civilians - and twice that number seriously wounded.

August 12 became known as Black Thursday after a massive artillery barrage lasting some 11 hours killing some 500 Lebanese & Palestinian civilians.

On September 15, 1982, after the evacuation of PLO fighters from Beirut on the condition of international protection for the Palestinian and Lebanese civilians in the region, Sharon invaded Beirut. Ariel Sharon declaring that this was in order to dislodge 2000 Palestinian fighters remaining in the city. The task of purging the camps Sharon gave to the Phalange (Lebanese force armed by and closely allied with Israel since the onset of Lebanon?s civil war in 1975).

Sabra & Shatila: The slaughter in the camps at Sabra and Shatila took place between 6:00pm on September 16 and 8:00 am on September 18, 1982 in an area under the control of the Israeli army. Sharon?s troops, having held the camps under siege, allowed Phalangists to enter. Israeli searchlights illuminated the camps, while Israeli army personnel watched through binoculars as the death squads spread unchallenged through the camps. Whole families were murdered, many were raped and tortured before being killed. So many bodies were heaped into lorries and taken away, or buried in mass graves, that the exact toll will never be known, but Palestinian sources estimate at least 2000 people were killed.

On September 28, 2000, Ariel Sharon's incursion into Al Aqsa sanctuary accompanied by at least 1,000 armed soldiers and police officers triggered the outbreak of the current crisis that has so far led to the death of hundreds of Palestinians and the wounding of thousands

This man is a terrorist period

 

[0roo0roo]

and yet, he's still better then arafat, which is the problem.


the best you can do is dig up the vageries of war during the war in lebanon when arafat is in a coalition of death to this very day? it has nothing to do with anything. has sharon gone in and commited genocide against palestinians now that he has power? no! any use of force he has done has been measured response/prevention efforts, not vengeful. his forces try to minimize casualties, whereas arafat has no such limits. intifadas aren't grass roots efforts, they start from the top. arafat and his coalition of terrorists have been lusting for civilian blood since day one, he has not ever tried to stop them, and why should he since he is the head terrorist.

its not sharon that tries to kill as many civilians as possible, its arafat. it is not sharon who indoctrinates children from first grade on to seeth hatred, to love death? school books filled with hate, airwaves filled with hate, official government religious leaders constantly spewing incitement to violence? arafats been there doing this from day one, and frankly sharons been in office for only a few years, and since that time arafats did nothing but obstruct the peace process. nothing new, the simple fact is the israelis have always had leaders that are reliable honest peace brokers, whether it was with egypt or jordan, they weren't just playing games. the palestinians on the other hand have never had an honest peace broker, its a total failure of leadership since ww1. the palestinians sided with the losers in ww1, nazi's and hitler in ww2, the evil empire in the cold war, and now, they have arafat who has never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. spending all your time blaming israel only distracts from the real problem of arafat. a corrupt old hate monger rich enough to be on forbes richest world leader list, who spends his money funding terrorism, corrupting his society with hatred/violence, and has no real goal or intention of a two state solution. he still hasn't changed the plo's official charter to recognize israels right to exist.

 

[EagleKeeper]

MegaWorks

You also need to look at why Israel was involved in many of the incidents that you indicated. Lebadon was in response to the PLO bases there. They were trying to remove the problem, the Lebadon governemnt was not controling their own areas.

The "refugee" camps are in reality small citys and have always been a breeding ground for militia and terrorists.

Israel has usually gone into the camps to remove a sore spot. They have the ability to enter the areas at will and perform their intended mission. If they chose to, they could elimintae those camps before the world body could do anything but perform the standard lip service. The PLO security service is a joke, they can not even contol there own people. Remember Arafat crying in fear on his cell phone asking for protection from Israel.

If they were anything like the PLO or the Arabs countries that are sworn to destroy them, they would have razed the camps completely. Their tolerance has allowed a launching pad to exist against their civilian population.

They have tried to cooperate with their own limits of safety, it is just the attitude of the PLO that they)PLO) want all or nothing. That is why they still have nothing.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
and yet, he's still better then arafat, which is the problem.


the best you can do is dig up the vageries of war during the war in lebanon when arafat is in a coalition of death to this very day? it has nothing to do with anything. has sharon gone in and commited genocide against palestinians now that he has power? no! any use of force he has done has been measured response/prevention efforts, not vengeful. his forces try to minimize casualties, whereas arafat has no such limits. intifadas aren't grass roots efforts, they start from the top. arafat and his coalition of terrorists have been lusting for civilian blood since day one, he has not ever tried to stop them, and why should he since he is the head terrorist.

.

in 1982 when they occupied Beirut, the IDF killed 14000 people 90% of them are unarmed civilians, thats only Beirut and don't forget Sabra & Shatila and you're telling me that Sharon tried to "minimize casualties" is this a joke!. Second Israel had no rights to invade Lebanon, it was againt international law in which Israel violates every time til today (UN resolutions)

Arafat is a moron, it's because of him that the palestinians got nothing. The PLO gave nothing to the palestinians but Oslo in which Sharon and his Likud party doesn't even believe in. The Israeli army is a brutal army, I believe that the only way to stop Israel intenton is to resist the occuption. Hezbullah acheived succes, so will the palestinians if they still continue on resisting

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
and yet, he's still better then arafat, which is the problem.


the best you can do is dig up the vageries of war during the war in lebanon when arafat is in a coalition of death to this very day? it has nothing to do with anything.

Haha, that's the most uninformed BS I've ever seen. The entire conflicts in Palestinian started from early 1920's all the way up to today. Everything that goes on during this period of history has to do with what's happenning today. The immigration of the Jewish has to do with this conflicts. The Balfour Declaration issued by the British Government has to do with this conflicts. The 1967 war has to do with this conflicts. The 1982 invasion of Lebanon has to do with this conflicts. The generations of hatred is caused up by all the events during this period of time.

To simply dismiss the history, all the events, and simply say the conflicts is caused by racism is just plain ignorant.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
and yet, he's still better then arafat, which is the problem.


the best you can do is dig up the vageries of war during the war in lebanon when arafat is in a coalition of death to this very day? it has nothing to do with anything. has sharon gone in and commited genocide against palestinians now that he has power? no! any use of force he has done has been measured response/prevention efforts, not vengeful. his forces try to minimize casualties, whereas arafat has no such limits. intifadas aren't grass roots efforts, they start from the top. arafat and his coalition of terrorists have been lusting for civilian blood since day one, he has not ever tried to stop them, and why should he since he is the head terrorist.

.

in 1982 when they occupied Beirut, the IDF killed 14000 people 90% of them are unarmed civilians, thats only Beirut and don't forget Sabra & Shatila and you're telling me that Sharon tried to "minimize casualties" is this a joke!. Second Israel had no rights to invade Lebanon, it was againt international law in which Israel violates every time til today (UN resolutions)

Arafat is a moron, it's because of him that the palestinians got nothing. The PLO gave nothing to the palestinians but Oslo in which Sharon and his Likud party doesn't even believe in. The Israeli army is a brutal army, I believe that the only way to stop Israel intenton is to resist the occuption. Hezbullah acheived succes, so will the palestinians if they still continue on resistant

If Israel would listen to "international law" Israel would not exist today. Israel does what it must to protect themselves and the hell with the rest of the world. The Israeli army is a brutal army, lol. Swallow up all that propoganda, why don't you. Anything to indict Israel.

 

[0roo0roo]

in 1982 when they occupied Beirut, the IDF killed 14000 people 90% of them are unarmed civilians, thats only Beirut and don't forget Sabra & Shatila and you're telling me that Sharon tried to "minimize casualties" is this a joke!. Second Israel had no rights to invade Lebanon, it was againt international law in which Israel violates every time til today (UN resolutions)

i wonder why israel invaded? perhaps because lebanon had become like afganistan with the taliban, a haven for terrorists and had conducted a series deadly attacks on civilians in israel.

and where the hell are you getting your figures, it was supposedly 10,000 civilians, but even that figure was later found to be grossly exagerated. not to mention oversimplifcation considering you left out the lebanon christians and syrians also fighting. here's some syrian terrorism against the lebonese. http://www.2la.org/lebanon/ee/terrorlb.htm

and really, all the deaths are on arafats head. if he had not brought the plo into lebanon to base terrorism against civilians in israel, no one would have died. he hid behind innocent civilians, which is well...what he does he wasn't just some guy with an ak, he hid behind civilians with tanks, mortars, heavy machine guns and anti-aircraft positions.

in contrast to arafat, when israeli troops surrounded 9000 terrorists holed up in positions in a civilian area west of beirut, they prevented civilian casualties by getting an american diplomat to mediate a peaceful PLO withdrawal from lebanon.

as always, arafat exploited isreals restraint, its unwillingness to heartlessly kill civilians as the plo did against them. if isreal was like the plo, it would have went scorched earth, civilian casualties be damned, and there would be no arafat today.

if you want to talk numbers, how many died when palestinian uprisings were put down in jordan?

ah yes, 25 thousand.

Haha, that's the most uninformed BS I've ever seen. The entire conflicts in Palestinian started from early 1920's all the way up to today. Everything that goes on during this period of history has to do with what's happenning today. The immigration of the Jewish has to do with this conflicts. The Balfour Declaration issued by the British Government has to do with this conflicts. The 1967 war has to do with this conflicts. The 1982 invasion of Lebanon has to do with this conflicts. The generations of hatred is caused up by all the events during this period of time.

To simply dismiss the history, all the events, and simply say the conflicts is caused by racism is just plain ignorant.

you talk of uninformed, but you don't seem to notice that the palestinian mobs started killing civilians from day one, which is why many of the jews banded together for protection to begin with. as for immigration, its kind of funny that you completely ignore arab immigration, which accouts for atleast 1/3 of the population increase at the time of arabs. it was completely unregulated, even after the british blocked all jewish immigration at the peak of the holocaust.

you bring up 67? the racist hatred of the arab states surrounding israel was quite evident in that war, they commited war crimes in each and every war by immidiately and without fail attacking civilians. as for 82, you think arafat and terrorism had anything to do with that?


since your listing events, you might as well know that the palestinians sided with the losers of ww1, the palestinian mufti discussed with hitler implimenting the final solution in palestine in ww2, then the cold war with the soviets...and on and on. they never ever lost an opportunity to choose the wrong side. they carefully bred and cultivated their generations of hatred with fanatical ideology, mass propaganda, and indoctrination of children.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Haha, that's the most uninformed BS I've ever seen. The entire conflicts in Palestinian started from early 1920's all the way up to today. Everything that goes on during this period of history has to do with what's happenning today. The immigration of the Jewish has to do with this conflicts. The Balfour Declaration issued by the British Government has to do with this conflicts. The 1967 war has to do with this conflicts. The 1982 invasion of Lebanon has to do with this conflicts. The generations of hatred is caused up by all the events during this period of time.

To simply dismiss the history, all the events, and simply say the conflicts is caused by racism is just plain ignorant.

you talk of uninformed, but you don't seem to notice that the palestinian mobs started killing civilians from day one, which is why many of the jews banded together for protection to begin with. as for immigration, its kind of funny that you completely ignore arab immigration, which accouts for atleast 1/3 of the population increase at the time of arabs. it was completely unregulated, even after the british blocked all jewish immigration at the peak of the holocaust.

you bring up 67? the racist hatred of the arab states surrounding israel was quite evident in that war, they commited war crimes in each and every war by immidiately and without fail attacking civilians. as for 82, you think arafat and terrorism had anything to do with that?


since your listing events, you might as well know that the palestinians sided with the losers of ww1, the palestinian mufti discussed with hitler implimenting the final solution in palestine in ww2, then the cold war with the soviets...and on and on. they never ever lost an opportunity to choose the wrong side. they carefully bred and cultivated their generations of hatred with fanatical ideology, mass propaganda, and indoctrination of children.

You want to blame all the violance on Palestinian and racism, that's fine. But it will never resolve the problem over there as long as people hold a view such as yours. In a speech given by the first Israel prime minister 50 years ago, he said:

It was clear that our remaining in Gaza, while the entire world ostracized us would lead to ... finding ourselves in a hostile sea of terrorism. Our military authorities would have had to shoot terrorists on a daily basis. ... We would not have been able to withstand this. For the State of Israel, such a reality would have become a catastrophe ... . Possibly, this would have destroyed us, not militarily, but morally - and in my opinion our morality underpins our very existence.

Even many American Jewish people recognize that much of the violance was caused by the 200,000 Israeli citizens, induced by the economic incentives by Israeli government, who settled into heart of Palestinian people in the West Bank and Gaza Strips. If you look around in the web, there are plenty of informed Jewish people who advocate bringing those settlers back to Israel territory.

It is not about racism or religion over there in Palestine. It has always been about occupation, terrirotrial dispute and heavy use of force against the Palestinian people that lead of the cycle of violance. There is no mistake that extremist group like Hamas bears lots of blame in this mess, but again, they do not represent most of the Palestinian people. In fact, there are study that shows majority of Palestinian thinks Hamas is counter productive to the just fight against Israel occupation.

Simply blaming the violance on race or religion just serve to escalate the hatred between two groups and not address the real problem in the Palestinian region.

 

[skyking]

This act of aggression disgusts me; The use of one of our helicopters and weapons systems to assasinate an old man in a wheelchair, it does further damage to the US image in the third world. We sold the system for the Israelis to use as they see fit, but this is way over the top, IMO.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: skyking
This act of aggression disgusts me; The use of one of our helicopters and weapons systems to assasinate an old man in a wheelchair, it does further damage to the US image in the third world. We sold the system for the Israelis to use as they see fit, but this is way over the top, IMO.

Old man in a wheelchair, LOL. Would it have made a difference if hitler were in a wheelchair? The man was a murderous dog.

Spiritual leader my ass.
:|

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: rchiu
It is not about racism or religion over there in Palestine. It has always been about occupation, terrirotrial dispute and heavy use of force against the Palestinian people that lead of the cycle of violance. There is no mistake that extremist group like Hamas bears lots of blame in this mess, but again, they do not represent most of the Palestinian people. In fact, there are study that shows majority of Palestinian thinks Hamas is counter productive to the just fight against Israel occupation.

Link to that study?

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: skyking
This act of aggression disgusts me; The use of one of our helicopters and weapons systems to assasinate an old man in a wheelchair, it does further damage to the US image in the third world. We sold the system for the Israelis to use as they see fit, but this is way over the top, IMO.

Old man in a wheelchair, LOL. Would it have made a difference if hitler were in a wheelchair? The man was a murderous dog.

Spiritual leader my ass.
:|

Damn right. :|

 

[0roo0roo]

Even many American Jewish people recognize that much of the violance was caused by the 200,000 Israeli citizens, induced by the economic incentives by Israeli government, who settled into heart of Palestinian people in the West Bank and Gaza Strips. If you look around in the web, there are plenty of informed Jewish people who advocate bringing those settlers back to Israel territory.

It is not about racism or religion over there in Palestine. It has always been about occupation, terrirotrial dispute and heavy use of force against the Palestinian people that lead of the cycle of violance. There is no mistake that extremist group like Hamas bears lots of blame in this mess, but again, they do not represent most of the Palestinian people. In fact, there are study that shows majority of Palestinian thinks Hamas is counter productive to the just fight against Israel occupation.

Simply blaming the violance on race or religion just serve to escalate the hatred between two groups and not address the real problem in the Palestinian region.

its irrevant. the settlements started after the 1967 war, after israel learned that the arab partners/palestine weren't really going to be serious about peace ever. and before the 1967 and subsequent occupation of those two areas, there was endless terrorism anyways. what you don't understand is the terrorists want everything, not just simply gaza/palestine. there is no pleasing them.

This act of aggression disgusts me; The use of one of our helicopters and weapons systems to assasinate an old man in a wheelchair, it does further damage to the US image in the third world. We sold the system for the Israelis to use as they see fit, but this is way over the top, IMO.

i'm sure our search and attempts to kill osama with missles/gunships/planes whatever we've got disgusts you too. trying to shoot an old man... some old men are simply responsible for crimes that justify their killing. that wheelchaired mans group had been responsible for decades for terror, and most recently had tried to cause an explosion at a chemical storage area, an attempt at mass murder.

frankly the arguement that you'll insight more hatred is rather pointless since most anything done insights hatred of such people. if you try to stop their mass murder, they hate you, if you don't, they kill you anyways.

 

[skyking]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: skyking
This act of aggression disgusts me; The use of one of our helicopters and weapons systems to assasinate an old man in a wheelchair, it does further damage to the US image in the third world. We sold the system for the Israelis to use as they see fit, but this is way over the top, IMO.

Old man in a wheelchair, LOL. Would it have made a difference if hitler were in a wheelchair? The man was a murderous dog.

Spiritual leader my ass.
:|

Damn right. :|

Still a rotten way to go about it, if you want him dead, send an assassin in to take him.

Disregarding the lives of anyone nearby does not help their cause anywhere.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: skyking

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: skyking
This act of aggression disgusts me; The use of one of our helicopters and weapons systems to assasinate an old man in a wheelchair, it does further damage to the US image in the third world. We sold the system for the Israelis to use as they see fit, but this is way over the top, IMO.

Old man in a wheelchair, LOL. Would it have made a difference if hitler were in a wheelchair? The man was a murderous dog.

Spiritual leader my ass.
:|

Damn right. :|

Still a rotten way to go about it, if you want him dead, send an assassin in to take him.

Disregarding the lives of anyone nearby does not help their cause anywhere.

First of all, the Israeli "cause" is to protect it's citizens. Killing this guy definitely helped their "cause".
Okay, so first you had a problem that they killed an old man in a wheelchair. After that was debunked, you then had an altogether different problem that they should've sent in people to take him out. Seems like you are trying to find problems.
Nevertheless, I'll answer you. Why in heaven's name should they risk the lives of Israeli soldiers to kill this murderer? People should know better than to hang out with known terrorists during a conflict.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: skyking

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: skyking
This act of aggression disgusts me; The use of one of our helicopters and weapons systems to assasinate an old man in a wheelchair, it does further damage to the US image in the third world. We sold the system for the Israelis to use as they see fit, but this is way over the top, IMO.

Old man in a wheelchair, LOL. Would it have made a difference if hitler were in a wheelchair? The man was a murderous dog.

Spiritual leader my ass.
:|

Damn right. :|

Still a rotten way to go about it, if you want him dead, send an assassin in to take him.

Disregarding the lives of anyone nearby does not help their cause anywhere.

you don't live in reality do you? palestinian terror group leaders live surrounded by gunmen for protection. they live in highly dense areas with narrow roads deep in palestinian teritory. any attempt to infiltrate with your fantasy ninja would fail. any land attempt would require massive force with tanks, and areas ladden with high explosives and booby traps, that would result in inevitible mass civilian casualties. it would be black hawk down, but with tanks everywhere.

since you know of or have inhuman ninja skills, i'm interested in hiring you as a ninja to take out kim jong Il of north korea. i'm sure u can do it!!

 

[skyking]

You did not debunk anything. Assassination by brute indescriminate force is just that. That was and is my total point. The israelis want peace, but use a helicopter and a missile where one bullet would do. Who said anything about soldiers? That was your excuse. The Israelis, and everyone else for that matter, have employed assassins for centuries. Sure, he is still a martyr if you have a professional kill him, but there is no collateral damage. No extra martyrs, no dramatic morgue pictures with brains leaking out, no fanfare, just a dead "spritual leader".

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: rchiu
It is not about racism or religion over there in Palestine. It has always been about occupation, terrirotrial dispute and heavy use of force against the Palestinian people that lead of the cycle of violance. There is no mistake that extremist group like Hamas bears lots of blame in this mess, but again, they do not represent most of the Palestinian people. In fact, there are study that shows majority of Palestinian thinks Hamas is counter productive to the just fight against Israel occupation.

Link to that study?

A recent poll of by an Israel source

Important Stat:

(62.9%) support to various degrees the notion that says "the peace process
is the best thing Palestinian can get under the current international
changes".
( 35.2%) Support the continuation of Intifada, while (39.8%) call for a
halt.
(30.7%) in favor of suicidal attacks in Israel, and (35.4%) call for a halt
to such attacks .
(59.3%) Support to varying degree the President Arafat

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: skyking
You did not debunk anything. Assassination by brute indescriminate force is just that. That was and is my total point. The israelis want peace, but use a helicopter and a missile where one bullet would do. Who said anything about soldiers? That was your excuse. The Israelis, and everyone else for that matter, have employed assassins for centuries. Sure, he is still a martyr if you have a professional kill him, but there is no collateral damage. No extra martyrs, no dramatic morgue pictures with brains leaking out, no fanfare, just a dead "spritual leader".

Well, if it wasn't debunked, answer this:
Osama is an old man with a long white neard and he has severe diabetes. Should he be immune?
If Hitler (or any other mass-murdering tyrant) was in a wheelchair, should he be killed?

As far as your "advice" to the Israelis on how best to kill a terrorist, I'm sure the Israeli Intelligence community needs and wants your advice on how best to take him out.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: rchiu
It is not about racism or religion over there in Palestine. It has always been about occupation, terrirotrial dispute and heavy use of force against the Palestinian people that lead of the cycle of violance. There is no mistake that extremist group like Hamas bears lots of blame in this mess, but again, they do not represent most of the Palestinian people. In fact, there are study that shows majority of Palestinian thinks Hamas is counter productive to the just fight against Israel occupation.

Link to that study?

A recent poll of by an Israel source

Important Stat:

(62.9%) support to various degrees the notion that says "the peace process
is the best thing Palestinian can get under the current international
changes".
( 35.2%) Support the continuation of Intifada, while (39.8%) call for a
halt.
(30.7%) in favor of suicidal attacks in Israel, and (35.4%) call for a halt
to such attacks .
(59.3%) Support to varying degree the President Arafat

A poll carried out by the Palestinian Center for Public Opinion (PCPO) and
Prepared by President
Dr.Nabil Kukali.
That's an Israeli source who carried out the poll?

 

[skyking]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: skyking
You did not debunk anything. Assassination by brute indescriminate force is just that. That was and is my total point. The israelis want peace, but use a helicopter and a missile where one bullet would do. Who said anything about soldiers? That was your excuse. The Israelis, and everyone else for that matter, have employed assassins for centuries. Sure, he is still a martyr if you have a professional kill him, but there is no collateral damage. No extra martyrs, no dramatic morgue pictures with brains leaking out, no fanfare, just a dead "spritual leader".

Well, if it wasn't debunked, answer this:
Osama is an old man with a long white neard and he has severe diabetes. Should he be immune?
If Hitler (or any other mass-murdering tyrant) was in a wheelchair, should he be killed?

As far as your "advice" to the Israelis on how best to kill a terrorist, I'm sure the Israeli Intelligence community needs and wants your advice on how best to take him out.

No one is immune.
The israeli intelligence community has made several stupid errors in the past, and will do so in the future. That is the nature of things. This was another fine example of fighting the fire with gasoline.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: rchiu
It is not about racism or religion over there in Palestine. It has always been about occupation, terrirotrial dispute and heavy use of force against the Palestinian people that lead of the cycle of violance. There is no mistake that extremist group like Hamas bears lots of blame in this mess, but again, they do not represent most of the Palestinian people. In fact, there are study that shows majority of Palestinian thinks Hamas is counter productive to the just fight against Israel occupation.

Link to that study?

A recent poll of by an Israel source

Important Stat:

(62.9%) support to various degrees the notion that says "the peace process
is the best thing Palestinian can get under the current international
changes".
( 35.2%) Support the continuation of Intifada, while (39.8%) call for a
halt.
(30.7%) in favor of suicidal attacks in Israel, and (35.4%) call for a halt
to such attacks .
(59.3%) Support to varying degree the President Arafat

A poll carried out by the Palestinian Center for Public Opinion (PCPO) and
Prepared by President
Dr.Nabil Kukali.
That's an Israeli source who carried out the poll?

I am talking about the website that posted this poll (IMRA)

IMRA, Independent Media Review and Analysis, was founded in 1992, by Drs. Aaron and Joseph Lerner, as an ongoing analysis of developments in Arab-Israeli relations. Awarded credentials by the Government of Israel as a news organization, IMRA provides an extensive digest of media, polls and significant interviews and events.

Just want to point out this is not what some people in this forum called, anti-Semite source.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
its irrevant. the settlements started after the 1967 war, after israel learned that the arab partners/palestine weren't really going to be serious about peace ever. and before the 1967 and subsequent occupation of those two areas, there was endless terrorism anyways. what you don't understand is the terrorists want everything, not just simply gaza/palestine. there is no pleasing them.

Wrong, only Hamas wants to kick all Israel out and they do not represent the majority of Palestinian. There are various reason for the terrorism in Palestine over the last half a decade. In the earlier years PLO resort to terrorism because they wanted Israel out of the occupied territory. Hamas initially wanted Israel out of the occupied territory but in recent year has being doing more and more killing to reflect the anti-Israel sentiment and for revenge.

Terrorsim is just one way of fighting enemy. To just say all terrorist are the same, they want everything and there is no pleasing them is just way over simplifying things. Like all war and conflicts, there is always ways to negotiate for an end to the conflict. If we just label Palestinian and terrorist and have the belief that negotiation is useless, then there will be no end to the violence until one side is completely annihilated.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: skyking

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: skyking
You did not debunk anything. Assassination by brute indescriminate force is just that. That was and is my total point. The israelis want peace, but use a helicopter and a missile where one bullet would do. Who said anything about soldiers? That was your excuse. The Israelis, and everyone else for that matter, have employed assassins for centuries. Sure, he is still a martyr if you have a professional kill him, but there is no collateral damage. No extra martyrs, no dramatic morgue pictures with brains leaking out, no fanfare, just a dead "spritual leader".

Well, if it wasn't debunked, answer this:
Osama is an old man with a long white neard and he has severe diabetes. Should he be immune?
If Hitler (or any other mass-murdering tyrant) was in a wheelchair, should he be killed?

As far as your "advice" to the Israelis on how best to kill a terrorist, I'm sure the Israeli Intelligence community needs and wants your advice on how best to take him out.

No one is immune.
The israeli intelligence community has made several stupid errors in the past, and will do so in the future. That is the nature of things. This was another fine example of fighting the fire with gasoline.

So because the Israeli Intelligence community has failed in the past (as has every other intelligence organization in the world), that means that you suddenly know better than them how to kill a terrorist?
You say they were fighting fire with gasoline, but the gasoline has already been thrown on the fire by Hamas. The Israelis killed Yassin because of the attempt by Hamas to kill THOUSANDS of Israeli civillians by blowing up the huge chemical tanks at the Ashdod port. That is all-out war, and it was declared by Hamas.