hand strengtheners for forearms?

[rh71]

From reading, I know wrist rolls seem to be the way to go, but I'd like to do something in addition. Do hand strengtheners like either of these help the forearms get stronger? I want it for hockey and loading the stick for quicker & harder wrist/snap shots.

http://www.amazon.com/Gripmaster-Exe...hand+exerciser

http://www.amazon.com/ZON-ZNBK-HNDGR...hand+exerciser

 

[RandomWords]

They work the flexor side of the forearm but not the extensors... of course - if your forearms are stronger than their resistance then it won't help much (like lifting too light)... reverse curls can help work the extensors - any exercise that extends (so your wrist goes back toward the hairy side) will work the extensors. Though take caution to how much you do - they can be overworked easily.

 

[Blackjack200]

What kind of strength training do you do now? I think general upper body strength would help a lot more than wrist curls or gripmasters would.

 

[smackababy]

Farmers walk really works my forearms and grip a lot more than any grip strengthener has. That and wrist curls have worked for me.

 

[gradoman]

You can sorta get some work like this done for free by:

Deadhangs in parks or on a tree.
Filling some gallon or 5 gallon bottles/random containers with handles with sand or water (reverse curls too).
Heavy cast iron pan with handles.

For a little bit of money (and better overall workout):

Mix cement into buckets with handles and let dry. Use for farmer's walks, curls.


If you've got access to a gym, you can do reverse curls like RandomWords said along with some Farmer's Walks (hold heaviest dumbbells or two barbells and walk back and forth) to build up the grip strength faster, but in general, if you're doing deadlifts, barbell/dumbbell row, anything that requires holding onto a weight, you'll build it up. I went from not being able to hold 315lbs double overhand to gripping 405lbs double overhand. Takes time though.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

They work the flexor side of the forearm but not the extensors... of course - if your forearms are stronger than their resistance then it won't help much (like lifting too light)... reverse curls can help work the extensors - any exercise that extends (so your wrist goes back toward the hairy side) will work the extensors. Though take caution to how much you do - they can be overworked easily.

This isn't actually true. Anything requiring firm gripping will recruit both the flexors and extensors heavily. The extensors act as a stabilizer to prevent any unwanted flexion at the wrist. They actually maintain the wrist in slight extension for optimal length-tension relationship.

Overall, anything requiring a strong grip will improve your hand and forearm strength - grip exercisers, deadlifts, farmer walks, pull-ups, etc. To be honest, it's easier to heavily load your forearm musculature with these big movements than it is with the isolated movements (wrist extension/flexion).

 

[z1ggy]

They work the flexor side of the forearm but not the extensors... of course - if your forearms are stronger than their resistance then it won't help much (like lifting too light)... reverse curls can help work the extensors - any exercise that extends (so your wrist goes back toward the hairy side) will work the extensors. Though take caution to how much you do - they can be overworked easily.

This isn't actually true. Anything requiring firm gripping will recruit both the flexors and extensors heavily. The extensors act as a stabilizer to prevent any unwanted flexion at the wrist. They actually maintain the wrist in slight extension for optimal length-tension relationship.

Overall, anything requiring a strong grip will improve your hand and forearm strength - grip exercisers, deadlifts, farmer walks, pull-ups, etc. To be honest, it's easier to heavily load your forearm musculature with these big movements than it is with the isolated movements (wrist extension/flexion).

Randomguy Vs. a Doctor... Who do we think actually knows more... Hmmm....

 

[RandomWords]

This isn't actually true. Anything requiring firm gripping will recruit both the flexors and extensors heavily. The extensors act as a stabilizer to prevent any unwanted flexion at the wrist. They actually maintain the wrist in slight extension for optimal length-tension relationship. Overall, anything requiring a strong grip will improve your hand and forearm strength - grip exercisers, deadlifts, farmer walks, pull-ups, etc. To be honest, it's easier to heavily load your forearm musculature with these big movements than it is with the isolated movements (wrist extension/flexion).

Funny since they are antagonists of each other - you might work them in a way but you will not strengthen... as in the way the OP seems to intend by his question... it would be better to do the flexors and the extensors with their own exercise. He was asking on the usefullness however - and as I said - if his forearms are stronger than the resistance of the grip device - it will be useless. Which still stands.

... and you can ask whatever doctor you want z1ggy - but claiming someone is a doctor doesn't mean they are a good one... not saying Socially Challenged is not - just your logic is foolish... and while I know that I do not have as much training as probably a PT... it doesn't mean I have none - which you are assuming.

 

[smackababy]

Funny since they are antagonists of each other - you might work them in a way but you will not strengthen... as in the way the OP seems to intend by his question... it would be better to do the flexors and the extensors with their own exercise. He was asking on the usefullness however - and as I said - if his forearms are stronger than the resistance of the grip device - it will be useless. Which still stands.

... and you can ask whatever doctor you want z1ggy - but claiming someone is a doctor doesn't mean they are a good one... not saying Socially Challenged is not - just your logic is foolish... and while I know that I do not have as much training as probably a PT... it doesn't mean I have none - which you are assuming.

So, your argument is that someone with extensive training and certification of a certain field (a lawyer, for example) giving advice on a certain subject should be ignored, in favor of a random with zero training in said field, because said trained individual could possibly be "bad" at their field of training?

Sorry, but bad form all around. SC is to be believed over anything you say when it comes to fitness.

 

[RandomWords]

So, your argument is that someone with extensive training and certification of a certain field (a lawyer, for example) giving advice on a certain subject should be ignored, in favor of a random with zero training in said field, because said trained individual could possibly be "bad" at their field of training? Sorry, but bad form all around. SC is to be believed over anything you say when it comes to fitness.

I'm not saying you shouldn't believe SC - and no one said I had zero training - that is an assumption. I do have some training - I just said so - not as extensive as a PT... but still some... and no, I'm not saying that people with training in the field should not be listened to - that is a conclusion you are drawing falsely - but to be questioned still -sure... because some of them were D students after all and still made it... some of them failed and had to retake the class over and over - and still made it to the term "doctor" - some of them were taught faulty information and still believe it to this day - what YOU seem to be saying is that a "doctor" no matter how poor they were at learning their information - their advice is automatically 100% correct... I'm not saying anything about SC... only about the flawed logic on your reasoning about the title "doctor"... Now if Z1ggy would have said "Random Vs SC" I could see your point.. but he specifically said "doctor" ... and not even "doctor in the field" - which would have been slightly better ... com'mon...

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Funny since they are antagonists of each other - you might work them in a way but you will not strengthen... as in the way the OP seems to intend by his question... it would be better to do the flexors and the extensors with their own exercise. He was asking on the usefullness however - and as I said - if his forearms are stronger than the resistance of the grip device - it will be useless. Which still stands.

... and you can ask whatever doctor you want z1ggy - but claiming someone is a doctor doesn't mean they are a good one... not saying Socially Challenged is not - just your logic is foolish... and while I know that I do not have as much training as probably a PT... it doesn't mean I have none - which you are assuming.

I didn't mean to make this into a conflict by any means. What you say is about doing wrist extensor exercises is reasonable and a good application of theory. In research though, both wrist/finger flexors and extensors are similarly active during gripping exercises. In addition, application shows that you do not need to do wrist extensor exercises to get very, very strong forearms and grip. I have never met a strongman competitor who did any sort of wrist flexion/extension isolation exercises - almost entirely applied grip work as I mentioned above.

And you're absolutely right about the second paragraph. Just because someone has a degree does not necessarily mean they are good or well educated. I encourage people to be skeptical many times. The only reason I have that little excerpt in my signature is for potential consultation clients. Otherwise, it would be completely unnecessary.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

So, your argument is that someone with extensive training and certification of a certain field (a lawyer, for example) giving advice on a certain subject should be ignored, in favor of a random with zero training in said field, because said trained individual could possibly be "bad" at their field of training?

Sorry, but bad form all around. SC is to be believed over anything you say when it comes to fitness.

I don't necessarily think that's what he/she means. I encourage people to think critically and assess things/research for themselves. In this case, my answer is based on research, powerlifting and strongman experience, dealing with high level athletes, personal training, and educating a long list of strength athletes. While it is not the only answer, I do stand by my opinion that you get the most bang for your buck just holding onto heavy stuff than doing wrist extensions with a dumbbell.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I'm not saying you shouldn't believe SC - and no one said I had zero training - that is an assumption. I do have some training - I just said so - not as extensive as a PT... but still some... and no, I'm not saying that people with training in the field should not be listened to - that is a conclusion you are drawing falsely - but to be questioned still -sure... because some of them were D students after all and still made it... some of them failed and had to retake the class over and over - and still made it to the term "doctor" - some of them were taught faulty information and still believe it to this day - what YOU seem to be saying is that a "doctor" no matter how poor they were at learning their information - their advice is automatically 100% correct... I'm not saying anything about SC... only about the flawed logic on your reasoning about the title "doctor"... Now if Z1ggy would have said "Random Vs SC" I could see your point.. but he specifically said "doctor" ... and not even "doctor in the field" - which would have been slightly better ... com'mon...

I agree wholeheartedly. This is one reason why I am heavily involved as a healthcare advocate for my family members. I've met some bad doctors and some good ones.

IMHO, I like to think of myself as a good one

 

[RandomWords]

I didn't mean to make this into a conflict by any means. What you say is about doing wrist extensor exercises is reasonable and a good application of theory. In research though, both wrist/finger flexors and extensors are similarly active during gripping exercises. In addition, application shows that you do not need to do wrist extensor exercises to get very, very strong forearms and grip. I have never met a strongman competitor who did any sort of wrist flexion/extension isolation exercises - almost entirely applied grip work as I mentioned above.

So... from my understanding - in theory - this wouldn't balance out the muscles - one would be stronger and hence prone to cause problems in the body without a balanced strength between the opposing muscle groups - why is it that this isn't seen as more of the actual scenario in the forearm muscles - like it would be on other muscle groups? Or is the difference just too small? Or would it be more due to larger muscles having more say in the matter?

 

[RandomWords]

While it is not the only answer, I do stand by my opinion that you get the most bang for your buck just holding onto heavy stuff than doing wrist extensions with a dumbbell.

...I would advise Reverse curls and Wrist curls with a bar for the average person looking for forearm strength... it is interesting to know that, that is what you found to work the best though.

For some reason, I have a notion of just holding onto heavy stuff being worse for the spine - especially if done on one side - I don't see the average person keeping good form - and just for some forearm strength...don't see it as worth it... (different if it was for multiple purposes - like deadlift). Hanging could be an alternative...

I welcome a response (from SC)... along to my other post right before this one.

 

[z1ggy]

...I would advise Reverse curls and Wrist curls with a bar for the average person looking for forearm strength... it is interesting to know that, that is what you found to work the best though.

For some reason, I have a notion of just holding onto heavy stuff being worse for the spine - especially if done on one side - I don't see the average person keeping good form - and just for some forearm strength...don't see it as worth it... (different if it was for multiple purposes - like deadlift). Hanging could be an alternative...

I welcome a response (from SC)... along to my other post right before this one.

If you read SC's sig, it says I am a DOCTOR of PHYSICAL THERAPY... So .. ya know I thought you could make the connection.

All your notions, feelings and otherwise are moot because unless I am mistaken, you do not have a doctorate (or advanced)degree in a field where your primary job is to understand the functions and responses of the human body, especially the skeletal muscle system.

It's one thing to be a person who frequents the gym and knows what exercises do what, but as far as knowing how muscles, nerves and ligaments respond to what stimuli, I leave that to professionals.

BTW, my g/f is a DPT like SC and I quickly realized I know absolutely nothing about the human body compared to her.

 

[RandomWords]

All your notions, feelings and otherwise are moot because unless I am mistaken, you do not have a doctorate (or advanced)degree in a field where your primary job is to understand the functions and responses of the human body, especially the skeletal muscle system. It's one thing to be a person who frequents the gym and knows what exercises do what, but as far as knowing how muscles, nerves and ligaments respond to what stimuli, I leave that to professionals. BTW, my g/f is a DPT like SC and I quickly realized I know absolutely nothing about the human body compared to her.

My job is a Massage Therapist and it is very important to learn about the skeletal system, nerves, ligaments, and ESPECIALLY MUSCLES for my job; basic information is given to each of us (some locations/states more than others) just to start... I go above and fucking beyond... thank you very fucking much... and have since the very first day I stepped into my career - where other students were just barely studying to past tests and not bothering to read every word of every book - I devoured it ALL (even the chapters that weren't required) . I study constantly and I'm a DAMN good massage therapist... I study many different books on the topic of the body to help me better understand what I am doing and have gone to many classes - as I am not a "SpA" therapist. I restudy what I've already studied. I take problems people present me (mostly neck and shoulder though because that is the common area of issues) - and try to find and apply new and better ways to adjust through manipulation and treat the condition from alignment to general trigger point and stretching techniques (some of them which PT's use)... and as they ask me "How do I prevent this from occurring" - well I better as hell have an answer and thus - I have to know what can cause the issues and the best way to go about them helping it. There are MANY MANY fields of study in massage therapy - some of them I hope to be able to afford one day as well as go across seas to study under specialists. I have ran into many PT's and I enjoy their conversation and what they can teach me. Do I have a specific degree from somewhere? Hell no... but a degree doesn't define a persons knowledge nor how many certificates one has. So before you mouth off again - sit down and hold your damn tongue. As for my "notion" that was a statement directed directly to SC so I could learn something if you would have taken the time to be as deductive as - yes - I was with "doctor" (but it was the principle and the way you said it.)

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Funny since they are antagonists of each other - you might work them in a way but you will not strengthen... as in the way the OP seems to intend by his question... it would be better to do the flexors and the extensors with their own exercise. He was asking on the usefullness however - and as I said - if his forearms are stronger than the resistance of the grip device - it will be useless. Which still stands.

... and you can ask whatever doctor you want z1ggy - but claiming someone is a doctor doesn't mean they are a good one... not saying Socially Challenged is not - just your logic is foolish... and while I know that I do not have as much training as probably a PT... it doesn't mean I have none - which you are assuming.

They are antagonists, yes. However, against what is typically taught for clarity, antagonists can and do contract at the same time. Frequently, it is taught (especially with the myotatic reflex) that when an agonist is contracting, the antagonist is inhibited and thus not contracting. However, that is a basic reflex. When the brain is actively completing a movement, agonists and antagonists regularly contract with little inhibition of one another.

With the gripping force required with a heavy deadlift, both the wrist/finger flexors and extensors are contracting heavily (sometimes maximally). It is not done in the typical concentric/eccentric fashion, but instead an isometric fashion. Isometric exercises prove to be very, very effective for strengthening (although you do not develop as much proprioceptive awareness due to the lack of strengthening through the ROM). With a gripping device, you're right. If the device is only 50% of your 1 rep max for gripping, then you're not going to get much stronger. If you apply the general concepts of strength training, you'd ideally want something between 80-90% of your max and do low reps. That's why they sell progressive grip trainers (easy, medium, hard) or even adjustable grip trainers (adjustable from 50lbs resistance up to 250lbs sometimes).

The act of gripping objects themselves will strengthen one's grip, especially if the other exercises are progressive. For example, let's talk about deadlift. If you're deadlifting 200lbs to start, your grip may not be the limiting factor. However, if you progress 5-10lbs per week, in several months you'll be at 300lbs. The isometric force generation required to hold onto that is fairly high. As I mentioned previously, grip training has to be progressive just like everything else. If the deadlift weight (resistance) continues to go up, then the grip will continue to be challenged at a high percentage of your grip 1RM and get stronger.

Also, it doesn't just work in theory/research. Anecdotally, I only did heavy compound movements as I suggested earlier. My deadlift went from 275 to 390lbs. I was able to do a weighted pull-up with 135lbs (at 155lbs body weight). In that time, I measured my grip strength with a grip dynamometer. It increased from roughly 100lbs (psi if I recall correctly) to 130lbs. I think average is usually 80-110 for males. Isometrics work in nearly all cases, but especially with grip.

 

[RandomWords]

Also, it doesn't just work in theory/research. Anecdotally, I only did heavy compound movements as I suggested earlier. My deadlift went from 275 to 390lbs. I was able to do a weighted pull-up with 135lbs (at 155lbs body weight). In that time, I measured my grip strength with a grip dynamometer. It increased from roughly 100lbs (psi if I recall correctly) to 130lbs. I think average is usually 80-110 for males. Isometrics work in nearly all cases, but especially with grip. __________________

Thank you for the reply - as for holding heavy weight to increase grip on one side (alternating) (as I mention in the "notion" below z1ggy clearly hates and as I have seen done in videos as well as in life) - what is your take on that compared to deadlifting or something that uses both hands and not one side over the other (alternating sides)? I would be concerned over the implications to the spine (are there any? - or for any other areas involves such as the shoulder) and how a lot of people if told to do exercises with heavy weight on one side of their body - would use bad form if not supervised by a trainer (and even some with - depends on the trainer)... this question is basically due to what I've seen people doing with weights...

... and sorry for if I seemed curt in my other responses - I don't do well with rudeness and it spills over. I'm also not very good in trying to get what I want to know out in writing since it is like my brain is having multiple thoughts in picture form at the same time running side by side all relating to each other - but you have to word it into one continuous thought process... I pretty much cross my fingers and hope people will understand what I write.

EDIT: I have how to phrase it: I want to know if it is more dangerous - not just that - but how it is more dangerous and what it effects especially in relation to the spine and shoulder. How hard was it to put that simply - pretty damn hard.

 

[marvdmartian]

The best forearm workout I ever had, was when I worked for the US Navy, in Guam. In 93, they had an earthquake there, that shook the island for a full minute (initial 8.1, later lowered to 7.8 on the Richter scale).

Earthquakes have a funny effect on pipeline flanges, in that they tend to shake them in such a way that the nuts on the studs loosen up, ever so slightly......which then leads to fuel drips! We didn't use impact hammers on those flange nuts, we used slugging wrenches (think of a shortened box wrench, with a built up end on it, that you "slug" with a hammer). We had a 4# and a 6# sledge, and spent the next month going around, as the leaks were discovered, slugging those flanges tight again.

Unfortunately, I'm not ambidextrous, or I would have had TWO awesome Popeye-esque forearms after all that. But being left hand stupid, it was only my right forearm that got pretty darn huge.

Ask yourself.....did you ever see a blacksmith, in real life or the movies that didn't have huge forearms?? :hmm:

 

[FleshLight]

Bouldering

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Thank you for the reply - as for holding heavy weight to increase grip on one side (alternating) (as I mention in the "notion" below z1ggy clearly hates and as I have seen done in videos as well as in life) - what is your take on that compared to deadlifting or something that uses both hands and not one side over the other (alternating sides)? I would be concerned over the implications to the spine (are there any? - or for any other areas involves such as the shoulder) and how a lot of people if told to do exercises with heavy weight on one side of their body - would use bad form if not supervised by a trainer (and even some with - depends on the trainer)... this question is basically due to what I've seen people doing with weights...

... and sorry for if I seemed curt in my other responses - I don't do well with rudeness and it spills over. I'm also not very good in trying to get what I want to know out in writing since it is like my brain is having multiple thoughts in picture form at the same time running side by side all relating to each other - but you have to word it into one continuous thought process... I pretty much cross my fingers and hope people will understand what I write.

EDIT: I have how to phrase it: I want to know if it is more dangerous - not just that - but how it is more dangerous and what it effects especially in relation to the spine and shoulder. How hard was it to put that simply - pretty damn hard.

To be honest, unilateral exercises are pretty useful. As with all strength training exercises, form is paramount. A health spine and shoulder should be more than able to manage the asymmetric force. However, if one is assuming a depressed scapula or lumbar spine sidebend during unilateral exercises, it may not be the optimal exercise for that person. You can typically fix issues with form instruction or having the individual use a lighter weight.

 

[guy666]

I think the best forearm strengthener is the slow negative straight bar muscle up. I find it is better for building grip strength then simple static holds.

 

[z1ggy]

My job is a Massage Therapist and it is very important to learn about the skeletal system, nerves, ligaments, and ESPECIALLY MUSCLES for my job; basic information is given to each of us (some locations/states more than others) just to start... I go above and fucking beyond... thank you very fucking much... and have since the very first day I stepped into my career - where other students were just barely studying to past tests and not bothering to read every word of every book - I devoured it ALL (even the chapters that weren't required) . I study constantly and I'm a DAMN good massage therapist... I study many different books on the topic of the body to help me better understand what I am doing and have gone to many classes - as I am not a "SpA" therapist. I restudy what I've already studied. I take problems people present me (mostly neck and shoulder though because that is the common area of issues) - and try to find and apply new and better ways to adjust through manipulation and treat the condition from alignment to general trigger point and stretching techniques (some of them which PT's use)... and as they ask me "How do I prevent this from occurring" - well I better as hell have an answer and thus - I have to know what can cause the issues and the best way to go about them helping it. There are MANY MANY fields of study in massage therapy - some of them I hope to be able to afford one day as well as go across seas to study under specialists. I have ran into many PT's and I enjoy their conversation and what they can teach me. Do I have a specific degree from somewhere? Hell no... but a degree doesn't define a persons knowledge nor how many certificates one has. So before you mouth off again - sit down and hold your damn tongue. As for my "notion" that was a statement directed directly to SC so I could learn something if you would have taken the time to be as deductive as - yes - I was with "doctor" (but it was the principle and the way you said it.)

You don't have to justify anything to me big guy. And....No offense but degrees/certifications do kind of define one's knowledge in a certain areas, especially medical and health fields. You can only go so far just by chatting people up and reading the internet.

Anyway, not here to argue with you or anybody else. Now you've learned something additional, so next time somebody asks you this question you can have a better answer than you did previously.

 

[Blackjack200]

Do hand strengtheners like either of these help the forearms get stronger? I want it for hockey and loading the stick for quicker & harder wrist/snap shots.

Ok, is anyone else skeptical that grip strength exercises are going to give the OP harder or quicker wrist shots in hockey? I really think that pressing and pulling will do far more for him...