Happy Easter! That is unless you live in China.

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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Ahh the good ole' totalitarian Chinese are at it again.

Per NYT.

China Detains Church Members at Easter Services

By ANDREW JACOBS

Published: April 24, 2011

BEIJING — The authorities stepped up a three-week campaign against an underground Christian church on Sunday, detaining hundreds of congregants in their homes and taking at least 36 others into custody after they tried to hold Easter services in a public square, church members and officials said.
The church, Shouwang, or Lighthouse, an evangelical Protestant congregation that was evicted from its rented quarters earlier this month, has been at loggerheads with the government since announcing plans to gather outdoors rather than disband or return to worshiping in private homes. The authorities have repeatedly stymied Shouwang’s efforts to lease or buy space for its 1,000-member congregation, one of the largest and most prominent so-called house churches in the capital.
The Chinese Communist Party tightly manages religious activity, requiring the faithful to join state-run churches, mosques or Buddhist temples. Until the most recent crackdown on Shouwang and a handful of other unregistered big-city churches, such congregations had enjoyed relatively wide latitude from religious authorities.
Founded 18-years ago in a private home, Shouwang insists that it has no political agenda and only seeks government forbearance that would allow it to occupy the $4 million space it bought in 2009. Church leaders say the owner of the space, under pressure from the authorities, has refused to hand over the keys. Last week, a foreign ministry spokesman defended the government’s stance, saying Shouwang had “no legal basis” to operate.
Most of those seized on Sunday morning were taken away in buses after they showed up at the plaza, which is not far from several of the country’s top universities. A CNN crew said they were briefly detained and had their credentials confiscated before being turned away by the police.
Several church members, all of whom requested anonymity for fear of further provoking the authorities, say they were confined to their homes by security agents, some as early as Thursday, in an effort to keep them from joining Easter services. ChinaAid, a Christian advocacy group based in the United States, put the number of those under temporary house arrest at 500, although that figure could not be immediately verified.
On Sunday night, Shouwang’s Web site was blocked and its chief pastor, Jin Tianming, could not be reached by phone. In an e-mail circulated last week, church leaders asked parishioners to make their way to the elevated walkway where services were supposed to take place even though they would probably be intercepted by the police.
The letter took note of the upcoming Easter holiday and likened the congregation’s struggle to the tribulations endured by Jesus Christ before his crucifixion.
“We pray especially for those brothers and sisters who in the past week or two have already been forced to move or leave their jobs,” it said. “We ask God to remember the price they have paid for holding on to their faith and ask him to take care of their families and their daily life needs.”

Can't wait until the leadership croaks. Hopefully people will have some rights then.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
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Do we know it was just because they were Christians. Lets wait for more facts before we judge.
 

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
Screw the leadership. If the Chinese people want this kind of freedom they can walk down the streets today and demand it like the rest of us. Forget a few thousand protesters in Tienanmen Square, I'm talking a little Ghandi type action. Even the hard liners wouldn't dare mow down people by the tens of thousands much less hundreds of thousands and China has over a billion!

Get some balls China.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,865
10
0
Do we know it was just because they were Christians. Lets wait for more facts before we judge.

You don't want to judge the Chinese government as being totalitarian and abusive? What more evidence do you need than what has been provided over the past several decades?
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
They're just following the Europeans in their religious persecution practices.

It's their culture. They're trying to protect it from corruption! Cultural homogeneity must survive! Down with diversity! Isn't that what people here say?
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
Sad situation, my heart / prayers go out to all those living under persecution for their political and religious beliefs. Hopefully, they will one day be able to overthrow their oppressive government and create a representative republic that respects individual liberties.

Can't wait until the leadership croaks. Hopefully people will have some rights then.
I think the current leadership is likely more restrained / reasonable than the next batch of hardliners that might take their place that was raised in a whitewashed history and having never witnessed, first hand, the monster that was Mao and the disastrous economic / social policies of he and his ilk.
 

ConstipatedVigilante

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2006
7,671
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Nixon opening up to China was the biggest mistake of the last 50 years.
Yep, all that awesome trade and credit that we got from them was awful.

Do we know it was just because they were Christians. Lets wait for more facts before we judge.

It's not because they're Christians; it's because they're religious. Religion undermines the brainwashing of the Communist Party, because it leads to the belief that there is something more powerful and awesome than the Chairman of the party. Chinese people are brainwashed by the government from a young age and it works on a lot of them. I've seen the ignorance first-hand.
 
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Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
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Chinese people are brainwashed by the government from a young age and it works on a lot of them.



US just thinks they have choice and freedom, really its just brainwashing. Same shit from the government and the corporations who make the media and choose the elections. Chinese government sucks but Americans are the last ones to point fingers about mindfucking their citizens.

Some call it a consumerist commercial culture, really its a bunch of pacified brainwashed tv zombies.
 
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ConstipatedVigilante

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2006
7,671
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US just thinks they have choice and freedom, really its just brainwashing. Same shit from the government and the corporations who make the media and choose the elections. Chinese government sucks but Americans are the last ones to point fingers about mindfucking their citizens.

Some call it a consumerist commercial culture, really its a bunch of pacified brainwashed tv zombies.
Uh huh. The difference is that we know about Kent State - the Chinese don't know about Tiananmen. I went to Tiananmen on the 20th anniversary; people weren't even allowed in the square.
Isn't it insensitive to build a church in China, considering what the Christian British did?
...I have no idea how to respond to this post.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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US just thinks they have choice and freedom, really its just brainwashing. Same shit from the government and the corporations who make the media and choose the elections. Chinese government sucks but Americans are the last ones to point fingers about mindfucking their citizens.

Some call it a consumerist commercial culture, really its a bunch of pacified brainwashed tv zombies.

Go to China and post on a forum or blog use the same language about them as you do for the US. Get back to us if you ever get out of jail.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
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Isn't it insensitive to build a church in China, considering what the Christian British did?

Not sure if serious...

Considering that they are dead and the Christians are Chinese I'd say no.
Not to mention The Opium Wars were not religious wars.

The difference is that we know about Kent State - the Chinese don't know about Tienanmen.
Very true, I know several Chinese graduate students that had no idea what happened at "June Fourth Incident" aka Tiananmen Square until they had access to uncensored history upon arriving in America.

Here in America, we can read, hear in lectures, and are usually constantly reminded in the media about all of the terrible things our government did to blacks, Native Americans, student protesters at Kent State, the Japanese, etc.
 

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
It's not because they're Christians; it's because they're religious. Religion undermines the brainwashing of the Communist Party, because it leads to the belief that there is something more powerful and awesome than the Chairman of the party. Chinese people are brainwashed by the government from a young age and it works on a lot of them. I've seen the ignorance first-hand.


It isn't just because they're religious either, its because they are Fundamentalists. They aren't so sensitive about wishy-washy methodists or whatever, but fundamentalists are trouble everywhere they go. As far as I'm concerned the fundamentalists and hard liners deserve each other and I'm sure many Chinese are content to watch them keep each other occupied.
 

Gintaras

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2000
1,892
1
71
A quote from Johann Wolfgang von Goethe:

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
 

Gintaras

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2000
1,892
1
71
Here in America, we can read, hear in lectures, and are usually constantly reminded in the media about all of the terrible things our government did to blacks, Native Americans, student protesters at Kent State, the Japanese, etc.

What did here in America media tell about 9/11 - WTC, Pentagon?
What did in America tell about Iraq? WMD? - Weapons of Mass Deception?

Saddam Hussein was convicted and sentenced for killed ~120,000 iraqis, however, for murdering over 100,000 iraqis was ok for Jorge Boosh and Co.? Have media reminded that?
 

Gintaras

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2000
1,892
1
71
Uh huh. The difference is that we know about Kent State - the Chinese don't know about Tiananmen. I went to Tiananmen on the 20th anniversary; people weren't even allowed in the square.

...I have no idea how to respond to this post.

Chinese prolly do know more about Tiananmen than americans do know about 9/11 - WTC, etc..."Evil terrorists"?
 

dali71

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2003
1,116
21
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Hitler was Christian. Look what happen during WW2....

Are you sure about that?

Hitler's Table Talk

“The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light, and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.” p. 75

“The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity.” p. 7

“Kerrl, with the noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don’t believe the thing’s possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.” p. 145

“The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death. A slow death has something comforting about it. The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble.” p. 59

“It’s not desirable that the whole world of humanity should be stultified—and the only way of getting rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little. A movement like ours mustn’t let itself be drawn into metaphysical digressions. It must stick to the spirit of exact science.” p. 61

“When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.” pp. 59-69
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
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What did in America tell about Iraq? WMD? - Weapons of Mass Deception?
...
Have media reminded that?
You must not watch / read mainstream American media...

We were told again and again that America and friends were led to war under false pretenses by Bush and his criminal cabal, especially in the later days of Bush.

Bush, Cheney and friends have been depicted as traitors, liars and imperialists by mainstream news agencies and we see reports (sometimes videos / pictures) of our troops slaughtering / torturing innocent civilians / prisoners, sometimes just for shits and giggles, almost weekly.

A "proper" totalitarian way of dealing with the fact that there were no WMDs would have been to plant them there, cover up civilian deaths and deal with any leaks quickly / harshly and use the media to praise our leadership / military.

If our government / army is manipulating the media to deceive us, I am not sure why they would chose to go about it this way or depict themselves in such a poor regard.

If you think China has freer press than America, go over there and start posting anti-government / anti-communist news articles, truth about historical events that make the Chinese government lose face, information regarding corruption of government officials (and their friends), and see where that gets you.
 
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