HARD OCP FLAMES ATI

[Gstanfor]

Trust me, I haven't been anywhere near as nasty as I could be... Besides, noone outside of reviewers & ATi owns this crossfire thing yet anyway.

With regard to the shadows, 3DMark05 is definitely fixed, so are the palm tree shadows in farcry (all I could see wrong in the previous drivers, and then only by flying above the landscape, not that I ever took any great interest in the shadows in farcry anyhow).

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: M0RPH
I guess we're gonna be beating on this dead horse until it's mashed to a pulp.

You bet. Just like the fanATIcs flogged nVidia in the nV3x days.

There's some truth to this.

Like Ford vs Chevy, the backers of a brand will point out the flaws many times.

The nV30 has been posted about more than any card in history, and after "Shader Days" we were treated to many, many posts of "Look! A 9600Pro is faster than a 5900U!". (for a game that launched a year later!)

It's the nature of the video forum.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: M0RPH
I guess we're gonna be beating on this dead horse until it's mashed to a pulp.

You bet. Just like the fanATIcs flogged nVidia in the nV3x days.

There's some truth to this.

Like Ford vs Chevy, the backers of a brand will point out the flaws many times.

The nV30 has been posted about more than any card in history, and after "Shader Days" we were treated to many, many posts of "Look! A 9600Pro is faster than a 5900U!". (for a game that launched a year later!)

It's the nature of the video forum.

Lets stop this for 24 hours ok??? Wait until the ATI launch for the grand meele!

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Lets stop this for 24 hours ok??? Wait until the ATI launch for the grand meele!

Hopefully there won't be a melee.

I'm anticipated posting:

A. The R520 looks good because it has advantages X,Y,Z
B. The R520 doesn't look like a good buy because it has disadvantages X,Y,Z
C. The R520 looks like a moot point, it's comparable.

I promise no folding chairs or napalm.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Everyone knows that ATI has had big problems this year and made some major mistakes. But to kick someone when they're down like this just seems uncalled for. Maybe someone didn't get their R520 review cards from ATI?

Kick someone when they're down...? WTF...? I think Kyle is right on the money here... ATI has blatantly used the press for it's own purposes this year while actually producing almost nothing new. How many sites (including AT) has had CrossFire benchmarks? Where are the actual boards? Nowhere... It's complete BS, and I'm glad that someone else went "Sander" on ATI.

For the record... NV isn't one bit better. There was a whole lot of noise about the supposed "fixing" of the shimmering issue. NV got all the press about how they "fixed" the shimmering on this forum and on nvnews. Then people started noticing the shimmering is still there, and the whole issue went quiet. Apparently, they think that adding "addressed AF shimmering" in the driver release notes takes care of the problem, well it doesn't. This isn't exactly the same as the CrossFire situation, but I personally feel that both Rollo and ChrisRay were intentionally given the 78.03 drivers claimng to fix the issue because they knew that these two guys would put the word out that the issue was fixed. Obvioulsy, they knew that they couldn't claim say it themselves because they knew it was BS.

As anyone can clearly see from my sig, I have quite a bit of money in this rig, and the AF shimmering is a real disappointment. I was hopeful that NV would fix the issue as they did with the white textures in HL2 with trSSAA, but it was not the case.

Shame on both NV and ATI for using their fans, their customers, the review sites, and the good faith of the enthusiast community to spread BS. I don't think anyone expects their products to be perfect 100% of the time, but I think we would at least appreciate a bit of honesty and integrity in the way they conduct business.

And a big "Hell Yeah!" to Kyle for not being a push over and reminding ATI that they need the press every bit as much as the press needs them.

You are acting like nothing at all is done in the drivers.

No one was used, my buddy told me to try them, and that if I posted about them to make sure I noted that they were "a work in progress" and not ready for release.

I did, and I noted anomalies. (the flashing grass in one area of BF2)

I said I didn't see any shimmer in the three games I tested, so it seemed fixed to me.

Sheesh, sorry- they are working on it, and as I never even noticed it before I went looking for it, it's not like you fire up UT and see pixellated sprites.

The people who reviewed this said it greatly reduced or eliminated the problem- it's not like they made it worse and thumbed their nose at us?

Why are you apologizing for NV? My point was not to detract from anything you did. I appreciate that you posted the news about the 78.03 drivers, and I believe I said so in the past. My point is that the shimmering issue isn't fixed, and NV has successfully gotten the issue put on the back burner by having you and ChrisRay spread the word about fixes. The reason I don't think the issue will ever get fixed is because it's still there in the 78.03 drivers, but more importantly it's there in all the 8x.xx drivers I've tried out. I could be wrong, but this leads me to believe that the shimmer is not a priority to fix.

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: blckgrffn
It did absolutely nothing for the shimmering for me in Guild Wars. Looks like butt compared to every other card that I have used for that game, pratically makes me sick playing it (shimmering). Looks like crap and it is truely gawd-awful that my $350 card looks like crap nex to the $70 9700 Pro I was using for a bit this summer, not mention the x800xl, and the 6600 I used as well... Anyway, it is just disgusting that it hasn't been fixed yet. I am using the 78.03's. I could care less about UT, but the game I used to play hours upon hours on just sits there and awaits drivers deserving it. I am not angry at the testers, but nvidia for sitting on this since the launch of the 7800GT at least.


Running CS:Source at 1400*1050 with 4xTRSSAA and 8xAF and getting a steady 80-100FPS is pretty awesome though

And I got over checking Kyle's site for anything but benches when Kyle booted some people for complaining about a poor (really sh!tty, actually) experience with BFG's "Lifetime" warranty that they always tout so much...

Wow So far from the truth, people who have had trouble with BFG and posted on that forum not only didn't lose their account, but were usually helped by actual BFG Employees. What ended up happening is several posters took decided that it would be more fun to act Like they had a broken card and say they went through multiple RMAs that had no basis (there are several that did go through that that were helped).

Its wierd because some people are getting Pissed that BFG looks good after a customer has 4 RMAs, just because BFG posts on the site and reads those guys message and corrects the problem. I think a lot of people feel they should be damned for the 4 RMAs instead of being Praised for fixing it, and this causes some of them to post mad up crap. Whats funny is Kyle can actually work with BFG to see if any of the RMA problem actually happened.

 

[mindgam3]

HARD OCP was WAY out of line saying those things. They are just a review site they should be thankfull that companies like ati exist or else they would not even be around.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: mindgam3
HARD OCP was WAY out of line saying those things. They are just a review site they should be thankfull that companies like ati exist or else they would not even be around.

you are right in a way, but i dont think its too out of order. you dont know the whole story about how ATI go about their relations with the press. i think kyle is a pretty firery guy, but its obvious something major has him pretty pissed at the way ati are operating...he has the right to say what ever he pleases though and i doubt he'd lie.

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Everyone knows that ATI has had big problems this year and made some major mistakes. But to kick someone when they're down like this just seems uncalled for. Maybe someone didn't get their R520 review cards from ATI?

Kick someone when they're down...? WTF...? I think Kyle is right on the money here... ATI has blatantly used the press for it's own purposes this year while actually producing almost nothing new. How many sites (including AT) has had CrossFire benchmarks? Where are the actual boards? Nowhere... It's complete BS, and I'm glad that someone else went "Sander" on ATI.

For the record... NV isn't one bit better. There was a whole lot of noise about the supposed "fixing" of the shimmering issue. NV got all the press about how they "fixed" the shimmering on this forum and on nvnews. Then people started noticing the shimmering is still there, and the whole issue went quiet. Apparently, they think that adding "addressed AF shimmering" in the driver release notes takes care of the problem, well it doesn't. This isn't exactly the same as the CrossFire situation, but I personally feel that both Rollo and ChrisRay were intentionally given the 78.03 drivers claimng to fix the issue because they knew that these two guys would put the word out that the issue was fixed. Obvioulsy, they knew that they couldn't claim say it themselves because they knew it was BS.

As anyone can clearly see from my sig, I have quite a bit of money in this rig, and the AF shimmering is a real disappointment. I was hopeful that NV would fix the issue as they did with the white textures in HL2 with trSSAA, but it was not the case.

Shame on both NV and ATI for using their fans, their customers, the review sites, and the good faith of the enthusiast community to spread BS. I don't think anyone expects their products to be perfect 100% of the time, but I think we would at least appreciate a bit of honesty and integrity in the way they conduct business.

And a big "Hell Yeah!" to Kyle for not being a push over and reminding ATI that they need the press every bit as much as the press needs them.

You are acting like nothing at all is done in the drivers.

No one was used, my buddy told me to try them, and that if I posted about them to make sure I noted that they were "a work in progress" and not ready for release.

I did, and I noted anomalies. (the flashing grass in one area of BF2)

I said I didn't see any shimmer in the three games I tested, so it seemed fixed to me.

Sheesh, sorry- they are working on it, and as I never even noticed it before I went looking for it, it's not like you fire up UT and see pixellated sprites.

The people who reviewed this said it greatly reduced or eliminated the problem- it's not like they made it worse and thumbed their nose at us?

Why are you apologizing for NV?

Rollo works for Nvidia, for free.

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: mindgam3
HARD OCP was WAY out of line saying those things. They are just a review site they should be thankfull that companies like ati exist or else they would not even be around.

So you think that companies like HardOCP and VoodooPC should let themselves be used as advertisements, especially like Hard where they are sent sample hardware to review so that they can confuse purchasers who might actually think the thing is available. Ever since SLI cam out ATI has been demoing crossfire tech and throwing out a sample here and there to hopefully keep people from buying SLI in anticipation of Crossfire. Hard has decided that enough is enough, how can they sit there and give people numbers on vaporware and take a chance that it will affects a buyers future purchases.

 

[mindgam3]

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: mindgam3
HARD OCP was WAY out of line saying those things. They are just a review site they should be thankfull that companies like ati exist or else they would not even be around.

So you think that companies like HardOCP and VoodooPC should let themselves be used as advertisements, especially like Hard where they are sent sample hardware to review so that they can confuse purchasers who might actually think the thing is available. Ever since SLI cam out ATI has been demoing crossfire tech and throwing out a sample here and there to hopefully keep people from buying SLI in anticipation of Crossfire. Hard has decided that enough is enough, how can they sit there and give people numbers on vaporware and take a chance that it will affects a buyers future purchases.

Ok sure but they should talk to ati directly about it not make cry like a baby in the public. Hes a reviewer nothing more if I was ati I wouldnt send him jack sh1t to review anymore if he doesnt like the way they do business.

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: blckgrffn
It did absolutely nothing for the shimmering for me in Guild Wars. Looks like butt compared to every other card that I have used for that game, pratically makes me sick playing it (shimmering). Looks like crap and it is truely gawd-awful that my $350 card looks like crap nex to the $70 9700 Pro I was using for a bit this summer, not mention the x800xl, and the 6600 I used as well... Anyway, it is just disgusting that it hasn't been fixed yet. I am using the 78.03's. I could care less about UT, but the game I used to play hours upon hours on just sits there and awaits drivers deserving it. I am not angry at the testers, but nvidia for sitting on this since the launch of the 7800GT at least.


Running CS:Source at 1400*1050 with 4xTRSSAA and 8xAF and getting a steady 80-100FPS is pretty awesome though

And I got over checking Kyle's site for anything but benches when Kyle booted some people for complaining about a poor (really sh!tty, actually) experience with BFG's "Lifetime" warranty that they always tout so much...

Wow So far from the truth, people who have had trouble with BFG and posted on that forum not only didn't lose their account, but were usually helped by actual BFG Employees. What ended up happening is several posters took decided that it would be more fun to act Like they had a broken card and say they went through multiple RMAs that had no basis (there are several that did go through that that were helped).

Its wierd because some people are getting Pissed that BFG looks good after a customer has 4 RMAs, just because BFG posts on the site and reads those guys message and corrects the problem. I think a lot of people feel they should be damned for the 4 RMAs instead of being Praised for fixing it, and this causes some of them to post mad up crap. Whats funny is Kyle can actually work with BFG to see if any of the RMA problem actually happened.

Maybe you didn't read the actual post that I am thinking of, because it got ugly in a hurry and Kyle simply did what he does best and went off the deep end. I am not going to bother to go look it up, because if you freqent [ H ] then I am guessing you already know that this can happen. It kind of makes me glad that Anand doesn't post in these forums, maybe then we would be more likely to question him.

On the other hand, I always find Kristophers posts to be good and NOT in the vein of "how can you bash a vendor that pays us good advertising? Goodbye!".

Now, you are right, there are some BFG reps that frequent those forums and usually help people out much like OCz is here on those forums (and over there too I would guess) and that is pretty helpful, I agree. I was just speaking about a specific occurrence, not what generally happens.

 

[KristopherKubicki]

Thanks for the props blckgrffn.

Kristopher

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Everyone knows that ATI has had big problems this year and made some major mistakes. But to kick someone when they're down like this just seems uncalled for. Maybe someone didn't get their R520 review cards from ATI?

Kick someone when they're down...? WTF...? I think Kyle is right on the money here... ATI has blatantly used the press for it's own purposes this year while actually producing almost nothing new. How many sites (including AT) has had CrossFire benchmarks? Where are the actual boards? Nowhere... It's complete BS, and I'm glad that someone else went "Sander" on ATI.

For the record... NV isn't one bit better. There was a whole lot of noise about the supposed "fixing" of the shimmering issue. NV got all the press about how they "fixed" the shimmering on this forum and on nvnews. Then people started noticing the shimmering is still there, and the whole issue went quiet. Apparently, they think that adding "addressed AF shimmering" in the driver release notes takes care of the problem, well it doesn't. This isn't exactly the same as the CrossFire situation, but I personally feel that both Rollo and ChrisRay were intentionally given the 78.03 drivers claimng to fix the issue because they knew that these two guys would put the word out that the issue was fixed. Obvioulsy, they knew that they couldn't claim say it themselves because they knew it was BS.

As anyone can clearly see from my sig, I have quite a bit of money in this rig, and the AF shimmering is a real disappointment. I was hopeful that NV would fix the issue as they did with the white textures in HL2 with trSSAA, but it was not the case.

Shame on both NV and ATI for using their fans, their customers, the review sites, and the good faith of the enthusiast community to spread BS. I don't think anyone expects their products to be perfect 100% of the time, but I think we would at least appreciate a bit of honesty and integrity in the way they conduct business.

And a big "Hell Yeah!" to Kyle for not being a push over and reminding ATI that they need the press every bit as much as the press needs them.

You are acting like nothing at all is done in the drivers.

No one was used, my buddy told me to try them, and that if I posted about them to make sure I noted that they were "a work in progress" and not ready for release.

I did, and I noted anomalies. (the flashing grass in one area of BF2)

I said I didn't see any shimmer in the three games I tested, so it seemed fixed to me.

Sheesh, sorry- they are working on it, and as I never even noticed it before I went looking for it, it's not like you fire up UT and see pixellated sprites.

The people who reviewed this said it greatly reduced or eliminated the problem- it's not like they made it worse and thumbed their nose at us?

Why are you apologizing for NV?

Rollo works for Nvidia, for free.

Yes, and you work for your favorite sports team everytime you buy one of their shirts, hats, etc... You advertise them for free! Imagine that... Nike shoes? You work for them too! You drive a Ford? Yep, you work for them too.

What is so hard to understand about that?

 

[Busithoth]

sounds like ATI deserved this.
I understand that nVidia is a huge monster of a competitor, but paper launches are bullocks.

on the brightside, the chipset and mobos supporting this x-fire sound awesome.
I was worried ATI was really making a mistake, venturing into the mobo field (focus on a field, excel at it).

and personally, SLI sounds silly to me. If you're that big a hardware buff, you can't convince me that you're going to be happy with 2 identical cards which aren't cutting edge. More people that buy the cards, the lower the prices, though, and that's fine with me.

I think everyone should be able to experience 9800-level performance on games, or else they're not seeing what the programmers endowed in the game engine, eye-candy wise.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Trust me, I haven't been anywhere near as nasty as I could be... Besides, noone outside of reviewers & ATi owns this crossfire thing yet anyway.

With regard to the shadows, 3DMark05 is definitely fixed, so are the palm tree shadows in farcry (all I could see wrong in the previous drivers, and then only by flying above the landscape, not that I ever took any great interest in the shadows in farcry anyhow).

well i'll beg to differ until someone posts images to prove that..i personally tried them and posted my results in my thread...and as anyone can see the problem has got worse rather than better...

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Lets stop this for 24 hours ok??? Wait until the ATI launch for the grand meele!

I'm expecting fisticuffs!

 

[WT]

Someone please be a saint and lets start a fundraiser to buy Rollo an ATI card !!!With all the hurricane relief threads and discussion, I think its about time we chip in collectively and turn his frown upside down.

Note: I run two Nvidia cards and two ATI cards, so I shall remain unbiased in my video card buying options. Show me a good card for a great price, and I LIKE it.

 

[TerracideDK]

Originally posted by: WT
Someone please be a saint and lets start a fundraiser to buy Rollo an ATI card !!!With all the hurricane relief threads and discussion, I think its about time we chip in collectively and turn his frown upside down.

Note: I run two Nvidia cards and two ATI cards, so I shall remain unbiased in my video card buying options. Show me a good card for a great price, and I LIKE it.

I think Rollo has owned his fair share of ATI's cards

Terra - Look into the facts before making yourself look stupid

 

[Yourself]

Follow up by Kyle on the "Canucks" reference.... :thumbsup::beer:

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Yourself
Follow up by Kyle on the "Canucks" reference.... :thumbsup::beer:

Go read Anandtech if you want PC. www.anandtech.com

I don't know whether to take that as a jab or a compliment

 

[solofly]

Like I said in the other thread. Who the F*** cares what two twenty year olds with a web site have to say about anything.

Let the hardware do the talking and that's all there is to it.

 

[Creig]

It gets better.

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1028335170&postcount=178

This from the Editor-in-Chief of HardOCP? I've seen more maturity out of 12 year olds (no offense to any 12 year olds who happen to be reading this).

 

[fstime]

I'm sure you were jumping up and down when you read that.

 

[fierydemise]

Kyle is very quickly losing my respect