[Hardocp]GeForce GTX 1080: Most Bizarre Secret Paper Launch Ever

sam_816

Senior member
Aug 9, 2014
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He is making a couple of valid points but overall tone suggests he's pissed at nvidia abt something lol

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Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
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How about you wait for the actual promised launch date (May 27th) before calling it a paper launch? Otherwise we can say Polaris 10 was paper launched in March, they demonstrated working silicon and unveiled aspects of the architecture long before NVIDIA talked about gaming Pascal.
 

sam_816

Senior member
Aug 9, 2014
432
0
76
How about you wait for the actual promised launch date (May 27th) before calling it a paper launch? Otherwise we can say Polaris 10 was paper launched in March, they demonstrated working silicon and unveiled aspects of the architecture long before NVIDIA talked about gaming Pascal.



LOL a mistake committed by A cant be called a Mistake since B has also committed it? Sometimes I don't understand the logic of some of the members here. In one post they'll render AMD irrelevant compared to nvidia & in another post they compare AMD as if they r as relevant as nvidia.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,108
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Definitely is a paper launch. It's announced, the NDA has been lifted, reviews are out and the card is not available. That's a paper launch. Doesn't bother me personally. I still have my doubts there will be anything but price inflated reference cards available for $699 on launch day, but we'll have to wait and see. I won't be getting a 1080 until the Classified is out.

Most interesting thing in that article to me is that the 2.1 ghz overclock demo may not be indicative of what is in store for most users. Many of the reviewer's overclocking results showed as much; most falling short of 2.1 and I saw results as low as 1.95. The 1080 really smacks of the 680 again, the mid range die card clocked near its limit to be released as a flagship part. I don't think we will ever see anything over 2ghz released as an aftermarket card. Likely looking at a 2.2-2.3 ceiling with a voltage mod via bios, if that is still possible on Pascal, and using water cooling.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
5,603
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While I agree this wasn't the smoothest launch for nVidia, and there were definitely moments of confusion, I think Kyle should only be mad at himself on the launch date confusion. While not readily apparent when they first announced the card, by the end of the night it was clear that the 27th was the launch date for the FE and that AIB cards would follow some time later. Perhaps he just assumed that when they were given the cards with an NDA expiration of the 17th that the cards would just launch, but it was clear for other sites that the cards wouldn't actually be released until 10 days later. Not sure what became so "offensive" about the sequence of this launch.

Edit: I will say that the reveal being so soon, along with how the reveal presentation itself seemingly rushed to be put together, and then having the NDA expire on the 17th seems like nVidia was trying to push the release of the card forward from their original plan. Why, I don't know. But otherwise it makes no sense to me to not have the reveal say on the 17th, give them 8-9 days to play with the card and write reviews and have the nda expire right before launch.
 
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Mar 10, 2006
11,715
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How about you wait for the actual promised launch date (May 27th) before calling it a paper launch? Otherwise we can say Polaris 10 was paper launched in March, they demonstrated working silicon and unveiled aspects of the architecture long before NVIDIA talked about gaming Pascal.

This.
 

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
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How about you wait for the actual promised launch date (May 27th) before calling it a paper launch? Otherwise we can say Polaris 10 was paper launched in March, they demonstrated working silicon and unveiled aspects of the architecture long before NVIDIA talked about gaming Pascal.

If the product is not out when reviews are up its a paper launch. There are no 2 ways about it. If the product was going to be out on May 27th then why can't reviews wait for the same date. AMD did the same with Radeon HD 7970. It was announced on Dec 22, 2011 and launched on Jan 9th 2012 with reviews and product availability.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5314/...-double-dissipation-the-first-semicustom-7970

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5314/...-double-dissipation-the-first-semicustom-7970
 

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
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I will say that the reveal being so soon, along with how the reveal presentation itself seemingly rushed to be put together, and then having the NDA expire on the 17th seems like nVidia was trying to push the release of the card forward from their original plan. Why, I don't know. But otherwise it makes no sense to me to not have the reveal say on the 17th, give them 8-9 days to play with the card and write reviews and have the nda expire right before launch.

I surely think this launch was rushed. We will know once Polaris releases if Nvidia was forced into rushing its products to market. I am looking forward to Polaris launch to see if we will have a return to good old fashioned competition.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,167
3,862
136

This you said..?.

That is, did AMD launch Polaris at CES..?.

Was there a card announced and referenced with eventualy a Fanboi$ Edition to be delivered two weeks later..?.

At the end this kind of straw is as gigantic as the hype we witnessed these past days, i guess that you could do nothing about it, that is, to use AMD as a very poor and indeed inexistent excuse for Nvidia own shortcomings.
 

Spanners

Senior member
Mar 16, 2014
325
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How about you wait for the actual promised launch date (May 27th) before calling it a paper launch? Otherwise we can say Polaris 10 was paper launched in March, they demonstrated working silicon and unveiled aspects of the architecture long before NVIDIA talked about gaming Pascal.


Even if I bought into your attempt to equate the tidbits we've heard about Polaris so far with the Pascal launch, which I don't, it would still be Tu quoque and we'd have two paper launches.

They launched the card and gave an availability date, your rephrasing that as the "promised launch date" but as others have said reviews are out, the NDA is lifted and we know all the specs. Can we say that about Polaris?
 
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Deders

Platinum Member
Oct 14, 2012
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Most interesting thing in that article to me is that the 2.1 ghz overclock demo may not be indicative of what is in store for most users. Many of the reviewer's overclocking results showed as much; most falling short of 2.1 and I saw results as low as 1.95.

"Low" Ever seen a GPU at 1.95GHz?

Still, apparently at the launch demonstration they were using 3 cards. 2 for SLI and one for PhysX and their ray tracing style audio. That would help explain why they were only seeing around 60c in temps when Vsync was enabled at 60Hz.
 
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VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,193
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I surely think this launch was rushed. We will know once Polaris releases if Nvidia was forced into rushing its products to market. I am looking forward to Polaris launch to see if we will have a return to good old fashioned competition.
I want to believe!

Either way I won't be in the market for a gpu until next year, but I hope amd can surprise us all and get some market share back.



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Intervenator

Member
Aug 26, 2013
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"Low" Ever seen a GPU at 1.95GHz?

Still, apparently at the launch demonstration they were using 3 cards. 2 for SLI and one for PhysX and their ray tracing style audio. That would help explain why they were only seeing around 60c in temps when Vsync was enabled at 60Hz.

It's not low. In fact, it's quite impressive... It's just lower than the 2.1GHz used at the Pascal event. Nothing wrong with that, but getting a card up to this speed better be attainable or I will be damn near pissed.
 

TidusZ

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2007
1,765
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Most interesting thing in that article to me is that the 2.1 ghz overclock demo may not be indicative of what is in store for most users.

This has been the case for every processor and gpu launch that I can think of in recent history. The review samples have always been cherry picked extremely good bins. Let people buy the sucker's edition and post results and then decide from there.
 

DDH

Member
May 30, 2015
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I read the article. Still confused that May 27 availability on a slide at the Nvidia launch presentation actually means may 27, and not some other date assumed by the observer.

The editorial read like an opinion piece explaining to the audience why nvidia isnt at fault. Their choice of words belies whose camp H clearly exists within, IE "very strange ride"

The "explanation" for 2.1gh clocks for the FE edition curiously omits the fact the card mustve had its fan at 100% to maintain its clocks and temperature. The whole idea that folks at "NVIDIA that were very much surprised at this clock rate" cant be believed, unless nvidia engineers communicate with no one inside the company. But the intent to show the card running at 2.1, 67 degrees (JHH said 65 first, so they had prepared this part of the presentation), was clear. It was not accidental or innocent of intent as H would have you believe. Everyone was blown away by the clock speeds, assumed it was the boost speeds, assumed the temp was the standard fan speed operating tempt, and assumed that this card would overclock more still. People on these forums claiming up to 2.5 with water, 2.3 - 2.4 on air. Even saw a claim of 2.7 on LN2. Thats all still possible of course, but these assumptions were a direct result of Nvidias showcase. No way they didnt know that would occur
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
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"Low" Ever seen a GPU at 1.95GHz?

Still, apparently at the launch demonstration they were using 3 cards. 2 for SLI and one for PhysX and their ray tracing style audio. That would help explain why they were only seeing around 60c in temps when Vsync was enabled at 60Hz.


Low in the context of the degree of overclocking headroom. Reviewers seeing the card boosting to 1850 at stock and getting another 100-200 mhz out of it is only about a 6-11% potential overclock. In the case of a card doing 1.95ghz, it's about a 6% overclock. The card doesn't seem to have much headroom and these are likely the cherry picked review samples.

I didn't realize the nvidia demo was done with SLI. They used EVGA precision to show the 65C temp and 2.1ghz clockspeed. EVGA Precision usually shows the numbers for both cards in SLI systems, but, you can disable the information for the other card. That is actually interesting and could explain why the card was running at only 65C, when reviews showed temps over 80C. If it was SLI the card wasn't under a full load, it could also explain how they could demo a 2.1ghz overclock even if it wasn't stable. If the card was only under a 50% load because it was running in SLI, an unstable overclock could maintain stability. Interesting possibility.

The 1080 review at computerbase.de that included the average gain from overclocking the card in their benchmark suite showed only a 6% improvement in performance. You can get a 25% overclock out of many 980ti cards, looks like the 1080 has about 10% overclock headroom best case going on reviews. This would explain why you see the the two cards closer together in reviews with both overclocked and further apart with both at stock.

The paper launch discussion was evident and not so interesting. But the possibility of exaggerated overclock potential is more interesting and could be credible if you are correct that they demoed temps and overclock results on an SLI system without showing that there were two cards being used. Perhaps he mentioned it was SLI when he showed the 65C and 2.1ghz clock rate ? Reviews certainly were not sitting at 2.1ghz, most were around 2ghz.
 

boozzer

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2012
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hardocp calling out GTX 1080 paper launch

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2016...zarre_secret_paper_launch_ever/1#.Vz0WEPkrLIU

I am quite surprised that hardocp wrote this editorial. During the Maxwell generation they were generally biased towards Nvidia. So to see them call out this paper launch is a refreshing change.
1 article doesn't change anything. when a reviewer is proven to be extremely untrustworthy, it takes a long time to earn their reputation back. if ever.
 

selni

Senior member
Oct 24, 2013
249
0
41
hardocp calling out GTX 1080 paper launch

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2016...zarre_secret_paper_launch_ever/1#.Vz0WEPkrLIU

I am quite surprised that hardocp wrote this editorial. During the Maxwell generation they were generally biased towards Nvidia. So to see them call out this paper launch is a refreshing change.

A tech site reaching a conclusion you don't agree with isn't automatically bias, [H] has been pretty good over the years in that regard. They're also on target here with most of their points - this launch has been a mess and then some.
 

Deders

Platinum Member
Oct 14, 2012
2,401
1
91
I read the article. Still confused that May 27 availability on a slide at the Nvidia launch presentation actually means may 27, and not some other date assumed by the observer.

The editorial read like an opinion piece explaining to the audience why nvidia isnt at fault. Their choice of words belies whose camp H clearly exists within, IE "very strange ride"

The "explanation" for 2.1gh clocks for the FE edition curiously omits the fact the card mustve had its fan at 100% to maintain its clocks and temperature. The whole idea that folks at "NVIDIA that were very much surprised at this clock rate" cant be believed, unless nvidia engineers communicate with no one inside the company. But the intent to show the card running at 2.1, 67 degrees (JHH said 65 first, so they had prepared this part of the presentation), was clear. It was not accidental or innocent of intent as H would have you believe. Everyone was blown away by the clock speeds, assumed it was the boost speeds, assumed the temp was the standard fan speed operating tempt, and assumed that this card would overclock more still. People on these forums claiming up to 2.5 with water, 2.3 - 2.4 on air. Even saw a claim of 2.7 on LN2. Thats all still possible of course, but these assumptions were a direct result of Nvidias showcase. No way they didnt know that would occur

They were running 3 cards, 2 in SLI and a third for PhysX and audio. They also had Vsync on which limits the work each card needs to do, hence the low temps. Each card only had to achieve 30 fps.
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
504
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1 article doesn't change anything. when a reviewer is proven to be extremely untrustworthy, it takes a long time to earn their reputation back. if ever.
Exactly
A tech site reaching a conclusion you don't agree with isn't automatically bias, [H] has been pretty good over the years in that regard. They're also on target here with most of their points - this launch has been a mess and then some.
[H] has been terrible the last few years. Some of their reviews have conclusions and recommendations that don't match their own results. As for this article I think it is a reaction to the backlash and criticism for them bashing AMD non stop and going all love fest over Nvidia.
 

DDH

Member
May 30, 2015
168
168
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They were running 3 cards, 2 in SLI and a third for PhysX and audio. They also had Vsync on which limits the work each card needs to do, hence the low temps. Each card only had to achieve 30 fps.

Do you have a source that confirms it? I know a picture was floating around with 3 1080s in a system. The cards would have reached a thermal limit running that high and in sli regardless and down clocked I would have thought
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,362
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The overclocking hype was almost as bad as "Intel 5GHz". Some posters here were even saying 2.5GHz would be common on water...

It's not a bad card by any measure (except price) but it's clear it doesn't have as much headroom as a 980 Ti.

Best single card... for 6-9 months. But make no mistake, it is a mid-range card at a flagship price.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
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They were running 3 cards, 2 in SLI and a third for PhysX and audio. They also had Vsync on which limits the work each card needs to do, hence the low temps. Each card only had to achieve 30 fps.
Something I'm trying to understand.

If the load is so low that the card is not stressed, then why should it boost to 2.1 Ghz? Was it a manual overclock to mislead? Should the clocks not have been much lower?
 
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