[Hardocp]GeForce GTX 1080: Most Bizarre Secret Paper Launch Ever

[imaheadcase]

Definitely is a paper launch. It's announced, the NDA has been lifted, reviews are out and the card is not available. That's a paper launch.

Then that is a different view that lots of people, a paper launch is saying "Look at our cards and how great they are, you can buy them at major retailers today!" Then nothing shows up for months because of very very limited stock.

Nvidia straight up told us the day its suppose to be released.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Then that is a different view that lots of people, a paper launch is saying "Look at our cards and how great they are, you can buy them at major retailers today!" Then nothing shows up for months because of very very limited stock.

Nvidia straight up told us the day its suppose to be released.

yep, by this logic Apple routinely "paper launches" iPhones. It's usually a couple of week gap between product announcement and availability.

 

[AtenRa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-3fi1ovAP0

Gamers Nexus mounted a 980 ti hybrid kit to a 1080

FE max OC 2020 MHz

1080 "hybrid" max OC 2164 MHz in games
able to hit 2200 MHz in furmark by reducing mem voltage but crashed in games . seems card is held back by it's single 8 pin

Nice one,

So, those 2000MHz+ Overclocks on the Founders are only good for ~10 minutes (benchmarks only), they should be discarded as gaming Overclocks.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Nice one,

So, those 2000MHz+ Overclocks on the Founders are only good for ~10 minutes (benchmarks only), they should be discarded as gaming Overclocks.

If you put the fan at full blast, ~2ghz should be sustainable.

 

[antihelten]

If you put the fan at full blast, ~2ghz should be sustainable.

That's not really an attractive scenario though, noise wise. I sincerely hope we will be seeing some halfway decent aftermarket cards at $600.

 

[Grooveriding]

Nice one,

So, those 2000MHz+ Overclocks on the Founders are only good for ~10 minutes (benchmarks only), they should be discarded as gaming Overclocks.

The data has been showing the card is not a good overclocker . About 10% of additional headroom over boost clocks of stock settings. Even then the reference cooler is so bad it throttles. Techpowerup's review had the card throttling down once it warmed up.

This is not new though. The nvidia reference cooler has not been adequate to maintain over clocks on their past cards as well.

 

[antihelten]

The data has been showing the card is not a good overstocked. About 10% of additional headroom over boost clocks of stock settings. Even then the reference cooler is so bad it throttles. Techpowerup's review had the card throttling down once it warmed up.

This is not new though. The nvidia reference cooler has not been adequate to maintain over clocks on their past cards as well.

It's kinda weird though. Technically speaking this cooler should be performing about as well as the Titan cooler (also found on 980 Ti), but it seems like it only performs about the same as the non-vapor chamber cooler found on 970/980.

 

[AtenRa]

I really hate those reference cards (high-end models) from both AMD and NVIDIA.
Those should only be sold to OEMs, only custom cards should be sold to retail.

And, i would also like AIBs to sell bare-bone no heat-sink custom PCB cards to retail for lower prices.

 

[railven]

It's kinda weird though. Technically speaking this cooler should be performing about as well as the Titan cooler (also found on 980 Ti), but it seems like it only performs about the same as the non-vapor chamber cooler found on 970/980.

If you watched video 1 from that Nexus YOutube, they said they plan to test the heatsink from the 980 Ti on the GTX 1080. He noted some difference, and me looking also noticed the GTX 1080 heatsink looked smaller.

Let me try to grab the time stamp:
Here we go:
https://youtu.be/SOSDbKaOksA?t=670

EDIT: Looking at it again, it looks a lot smaller. Thinner even.

 

[Arachnotronic]

The data has been showing the card is not a good overclocker . About 10% of additional headroom over boost clocks of stock settings. Even then the reference cooler is so bad it throttles. Techpowerup's review had the card throttling down once it warmed up.

This is not new though. The nvidia reference cooler has not been adequate to maintain over clocks on their past cards as well.

I don't think the Founders Edition is going to be very popular with enthusiasts.

 

[RussianSensation]

It's kinda weird though. Technically speaking this cooler should be performing about as well as the Titan cooler (also found on 980 Ti), but it seems like it only performs about the same as the non-vapor chamber cooler found on 970/980.

It's not weird since it was already not good enough on a GTX980.

"We found that with the default settings on GeForce GTX 980 SLI the lowest clock rate it hit while in-game was 1126MHz. That clock speed is actually below the boost clock of 1216MHz for GTX 980. This is the first time we've seen the real-time in-game clock speed clock throttle below the boost clock in SLI in games. It seems GTX 980 SLI is clock throttling in SLI on reference video cards. This is something we did NOT expect, but it is happening with reference cards. This begs the question which we will have to answer another day, "Will this happen with custom cooled video cards?"

We noticed that when the GPUs would hit 80c the thermal throttling in SLI would occur and drop the clock speed from the boost clock. We know that it is strictly temperature that is causing this clock throttling in SLI because we also tried a test by just raising the fans to 100% fan speed. When we did this the in-game clock frequency jumped to 1266MHz consistently without dropping.

So this goes to prove, the reference cooler on the reference GTX 980 cards is causing thermal throttling. Raising the fan speed manually does fix the issue and provides a clock speed above the boost clock in games."
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014...980_sli_overclocked_gpu_review/2#.Vz3pZLgrKHs

Raising the fan speed on the 980 resulted in noise levels close to 50 dBA, louder than almost any AIB card maxed out.
http://www.computerbase.de/2014-11/geforce-gtx-980-test-vergleich-round-up/4/

The difference is cards such as Gigabyte G1 980 run at 66C, which allows the gamer to set up a custom fan curve and drop fan RPM to 35-40%. OTOH, on the 980 and 1080 and 980Ti and Titan X, you'll need to run 100% fan speed and you'll still hit 83C thermal throttle.
http://www.computerbase.de/2014-11/geforce-gtx-980-test-vergleich-round-up/4/

Why do you think so many people think blowers are garbage on high-end cards? Because they are. Unfortunately too many older PC gamers promoted blowers before the younger generation of us came onto the scene and proved the blower myth was marketing BS. The blower PC myth persisted for years but thankfully recently the new PC gamers are listening to us and realizing that blowers are overrated, always have been.

I don't think the Founders Edition is going to be very popular with enthusiasts.

And it shouldn't. This is a good way to send NV a message that $70-100 premiums for blowers are laughable, while also getting a superior AIB card in the process. It's a WIN-WIN for the consumer.

Many AIBs also use the standard NV mounting holes around the ASIC, which means an AIO CLC that fits on a reference card should fit on an after-market card too.

Reference 980

Asus Strix 980

 

[railven]

I don't think the Founders Edition is going to be very popular with enthusiasts.

Yeah, me either.

Reading some of those press releases for when NV announced their brand for Best Buy, it made more sense. Paraphrasing it was like "we want to be the brand they recognize when they're at the store and want to buy a video card."

I guess it can work online. Not that my mom will buy me a $700 GPU off Amazon without consulting me first, but I guess there are some parents/people who'd buy based on "Nvidia, that's the one" logic.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Yeah, me either.

Reading some of those press releases for when NV announced their brand for Best Buy, it made more sense. Paraphrasing it was like "we want to be the brand they recognize when they're at the store and want to buy a video card."

I guess it can work online. Not that my mom will buy me a $700 GPU off Amazon without consulting me first, but I guess there are some parents/people who'd buy based on "Nvidia, that's the one" logic.

That said, while I don't think it'll be popular with enthusiasts I think you are 100% spot on that it will attract the less savvy buyers.

I do hope that NVIDIA doesn't steal *too many* sales from the AIBs; they often deliver board level innovation that the reference cards can't hope to match.

 

[RussianSensation]

yep, by this logic Apple routinely "paper launches" iPhones. It's usually a couple of week gap between product announcement and availability.

They do. What do you think a paper launch is?

"A paper launch is the situation in which a product is compared or tested against other products of the same kind, despite the fact that it is not available to the public at the time. Generally, the term is applied to the computer and gaming industry, but is not limited to that."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_launch

Thus, the product isn't really "launched" to the market, it's only launched in press releases, hence "paper" launches. If you cannot buy the product on the date of an announcement, but the journalists have tested it, it's automatically a paper launch.

Today, most companies, whether in the automotive, computer or smartphone industry paper launch their products because they use the paper launch window to build-up hype. It also gives them additional time to build inventory and manage inventory/pre-orders and logistics more efficiently. There is nothing wrong with paper launching imo as long as once the product goes on sale, the company has sufficient inventory for consumers to purchase it. For example, once Sony/Nintendo paper launch PS4K Neo / NX, there is nothing wrong with those consoles launching 3-6 months post announcement. However, if they sell out for 1-2 months starting from the date of release in retail/online, then it's a problem.

 

[exar333]

yep, by this logic Apple routinely "paper launches" iPhones. It's usually a couple of week gap between product announcement and availability.

Totally agree.

Where it can get a little blurry is when the gap in time is considerable between 'announcement' and 'launch'. In this case, its a reasonable 2 weeks or so. That seems fair. If you are talking 4-5week+, then it gets into the paper launch territory IMHO.

Time frames aside, the whole FE concept was the most baffling to me in regards to the launch. If the product is more (for less) vs. AIB MSRP it would make more sense for them to launch AFTER rather than upfront. Then backtracking on FE vs. AIB vs. custom cards and timing just added fuel to the fire.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Today, most companies, whether in the automotive, computer or smartphone industry paper launch their products because they use the paper launch window to build-up hype and it gives them additional time to build inventory.

True.

What I find surprising though is the lead time between 1070 announcement and launch -- over a month. The 980 Ti stock currently available at online retailers is going to be virtually unmovable at anything close to current prices.

To make matters worse, the AIBs and retailers don't exactly rake in fat margins, maybe 20-25% gross for the online retailers and maybe similar for the AIB vendors. There's just not a ton of room to bring prices down on these products without somebody taking a loss, especially since these are the exotic, high-end with great PCBs/coolers editions, not just bog standard reference.

I heard from contacts that the AIB partners were surprised at the pricing of 1080/1070, they had apparently thought prices would be higher .

 

[Zanovar]

True.

What I find surprising though is the lead time between 1070 announcement and launch -- over a month. The 980 Ti stock currently available at online retailers is going to be virtually unmovable at anything close to current prices.

To make matters worse, the AIBs and retailers don't exactly rake in fat margins, maybe 20-25% gross for the online retailers and maybe similar for the AIB vendors. There's just not a ton of room to bring prices down on these products without somebody taking a loss, especially since these are the exotic, high-end with great PCBs/coolers editions, not just bog standard reference.

I heard from contacts that the AIB partners were surprised at the pricing of 1080/1070, they had apparently thought prices would be higher .

Good ole contacts.and thought prices woluld be higher? hahah.full of shit.


Personal attacks are not allowed here or cursing
Markfw900

 

[antihelten]

If you watched video 1 from that Nexus YOutube, they said they plan to test the heatsink from the 980 Ti on the GTX 1080. He noted some difference, and me looking also noticed the GTX 1080 heatsink looked smaller.

Let me try to grab the time stamp:
Here we go:
https://youtu.be/SOSDbKaOksA?t=670

EDIT: Looking at it again, it looks a lot smaller. Thinner even.

Hmm to me it actually looks a bit bigger, although the 980 Ti might be a little taller

(980 Ti on top, 1080 on the bottom):

It's not weird since it was already not good enough on a GTX980.

The whole point is that this is not the same cooler as the GTX 980 though, but instead is similar to the cooler on the GTX 980 Ti.

1080 cooler = vapor chamber design (similar to 980 Ti, Titan X, Titan, 780 Ti)
980 cooler = heat pipes design

As such it should in theory perform better than the 980 cooler, but it doesn't really.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I've always taken "paper launch" to mean that on and soon after the release date the item is only available in very limited quantities.

If the NDA on game reviews is lifted a week before release, that is not a "paper launch" of a game.

If there are only a few 1080s available on the 27th I'll agree.

 

[railven]

Hmm to me it actually looks a bit bigger, although the 980 Ti might be a little taller

(980 Ti on top, 1080 on the bottom):

AH, I guess I missed when/if he orientated them. I assumed the one closer to him was the GTX 1080 since that's where the card was before he forwarded to where he had the two coolers next to each other.

I'll have to check it again when I'm at home (at work got no sound and tiny 15" monitor )

EDIT: Would still like to see if they bench with the 980 Ti heatsink and if results differ.

 

[antihelten]

I've always taken "paper launch" to mean that on and soon after the release date the item is only available in very limited quantities.

If the NDA on game reviews is lifted a week before release, that is not a "paper launch" of a game.

If there are only a few 1080s available on the 27th I'll agree.

Paper launch has pretty much always meant that a company releases paper specs on a product (either through a PR event, reviews, or both), but with the actual product not being available until later.

Whether or not the company in question announces a date for when you can buy it is irrelevant, the question is whether or not there is a gap between when the product is available in paper form (i.e. reviews and the like) and when it is available to purchase. If there is, then it is a paper launch.

 

[airfathaaaaa]

Nice one,

So, those 2000MHz+ Overclocks on the Founders are only good for ~10 minutes (benchmarks only), they should be discarded as gaming Overclocks.

they really do find new ways to actually pull such a thing and get away with it...

here our shiny new card that can overclock so high yet after 10 mins you will revert back to the your normal OP D:

 

[David_k]

You mean throttle to 450MHz out of ~1700 ..

 

[DaveSimmons]

Paper launch has pretty much always meant that a company releases paper specs on a product (either through a PR event, reviews, or both), but with the actual product not being available until later.

Whether or not the company in question announces a date for when you can buy it is irrelevant, the question is whether or not there is a gap between when the product is available in paper form (i.e. reviews and the like) and when it is available to purchase. If there is, then it is a paper launch.

I disagree.

Launch = when they say it will be available, not when they release specs.

On paper = reality does not match expectations, not according to plan:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/on-paper

"judging something by how it has been planned rather than how it really works in practice:
The design certainly looks good on paper. Several candidates seemed suitable on paper but failed the interview."

 

[jj109]

The cooler is less effective because the die shrank proportionately more than the TDP.