Hardware Decoding w/ .MKV file

[BassBomb]

Hello everyone,

I have got a .mkv file which is an HD-DVD rip basically.

I am playing it on my HTPC machine (see sig) which has 7900GS.

From what I know VLC is the program to use for .mkv video files. This will not allow me to use nvidia hardware decoding present on the card. For such a weak CPU, it is required.

Is there any players that play .mkv that will use hardware decoding?

I thought of AnyDVD but I do not know if that will play .mkv.

Cheers

 

[taltamir]

none.
Hardware decoding for both AMD and nVidia is misleading... It requires (beyond the card):
1. HDCP monitor
2. Use one of only two programs supporting it
3. Decode ONLY HD-DVD or Blu-ray disks.

It has 0 file decode capability, while in theory you could write drivers that do that, it is impossible without proper card documentation. And the fact is, the drivers are only written by nVidia/ATI.

So your only options are either to buy an HD-DVD or Blu-ray drive for 200+ and only decode disks, or you can mount disk images in daemon tools.

However there is CoreAVC which is a VERY optimized decoder that supposedly allows you to do CPU decoding at reasonable speed on older hardware.

 

[shabby]

Theres no hardware that can decode mkv(x264) files, you need a beefier cpu.

 

[taltamir]

http://www.coreavc.com/

 

[BassBomb]

I don't think daemon can mount .mkv.

But if I find something that can will that help me here?

 

[BassBomb]

Looking dim, I guess I'll move my main rig downstairs to watch the movie

 

[allies]

CoreAVC might be able to do the trick if it's a 720p file.

 

[BassBomb]

1080p

 

[Auric]

HDCP is irrelevant. Hardware decoding is not limited to disc formats. CoreAVC has poor quality and is slow (software-only).

Commercial AVC decoders from CyberLink and Ahead (Ateme) utilize the DxVA capabilities of the 7900GS (VP1). However, only CyberLink's may be used with universal DirectShow players such as Media Player Classic which in turn allows for the MKV container. Another option is to remultiplex MKV to standard TS with tsMuxeR.

Given a more recent GPU with full decode capability (VP2 or UVD -only the latter available on AGP), the free ffmpeg-based decoder included in MPC-HC has equivalent performance and even handles VC-1 as well (CyberLink VC-1, unlike AVC, cannot be used outside of their own player). Another advantage is that this decoder can work around non-compliant AVC encodes which are very common, especially as created by novices with x264 encoder in MKV. Otherwise, these bad files may still be playable by hardware if the header profile is changed which is also possible during processing by tsMuxeR.

However, while the combination of the CyberLink decoder with the P4 3.0 and 7900GS is sufficient it leaves little room for multi-tasking. So, ideally, it would be best to replace the 7900GS with a 2600XT for equivalent 3D performance (else 2600Pro for less or 3850 for more) while gaining the UVD and compatability with the free decoder. The Avivo quality features are also superior.

 

[gorobei]

mediaplayer classic does .mkv but I don't know if it supports hardware offload.(tend to doubt it)

 

[Auric]

Originally posted by: gorobei
mediaplayer classic does .mkv but I don't know if it supports hardware offload.(tend to doubt it)

MPC does not. MPC-HC does (test builds). The decoder is also available stand-alone as a DS filter and will eventually make it into ffdshow builds also (until then, ffdshow's ffmpeg/libavcodec only supports multi-threading).

 

[BassBomb]

Well there is NO way I am upgrading the system, as it is fine for what I use it for. But I downloaded this HDDVD 1080p to try out for kicks which was .mkv

I am going to try out MPC-HC and see how that fares. CPU usage did not seem to get hit hard ~75% from what I saw, but the frames went to hell when I watched.

This is all hooked up to a Sharp AQUOS DVI -> HDMI

 

[BassBomb]

Ok

Visuals look MUCH better, it might be too slow though. The Audio comes out faster than the video, and it is well out of sync.

Im using an Audigy 2 w/ digital output to use its DTS... could that be the culprit, or the fact that as much as MPCHC helped it isnt enough?

What sort of things can I try out within MPC-HC?

 

[Auric]

As said, the AVC decoder in MPC-HC cannot utilze the VP1 in your card. Try disabling DxVA from the filter's properties.

If using digital audio output then the audio decoder is presumably disabled in Audio Console and the player's filters to eliminate any overhead -particularly if it is just basic DTS (ripped core), and of course stream unmolested to the external hardware decoder?

Replacing the 7900GS with a 2600XT would not exactly be an upgrade. Sure, it would take some minimal effort but the final cost would be zilch. Indeed, you might end up with some cash left over.

 

[taltamir]

My hat goes off to you Auric, you certainly seem to know more about that then me.
I guess nvidia and AMD lied when they said you need HDCP AND it only works with Disks... (PS. when I said daemon tools I mean mount an ISO of a blu-ray disk, not MKV file)

So there is a beta build of MPC that can do hardware decode? is that legal software (bypassing copy protection, like HDCP, counts as piracy... and working with some copyrighter standards without licensing agreement is also illigal).

Also... we, erm, assumed you had ripped your own MKV file of a private movie made by a family member or something (no really, we did ). You can't download an HD-DVD in MKV, its not HD-DVD if its an MKV file, it is an HD-DVD RIP where they take the move off of the HD-DVD and transcode it into an MKV file. Also known as piracy because it bypassess the copy protection, which, even if you have purchased the movie, is still piracy according to the DMCA.
Now I am sure you meant to say you downloaded an HD movie in MKV format that happens to be free, not an HD-DVD.

Anyways, I personally find 720p x264 mkv files to be much smaller, and much much easier to decode. And I am unable to tell the difference on my 100+ inch projector/HTPC setup.

 

[TheOtherRizzo]

Originally posted by: taltamir
none.
Hardware decoding for both AMD and nVidia is misleading... It requires (beyond the card):
1. HDCP monitor
2. Use one of only two programs supporting it
3. Decode ONLY HD-DVD or Blu-ray disks.

It has 0 file decode capability, while in theory you could write drivers that do that, it is impossible without proper card documentation. And the fact is, the drivers are only written by nVidia/ATI.

So your only options are either to buy an HD-DVD or Blu-ray drive for 200+ and only decode disks, or you can mount disk images in daemon tools.

However there is CoreAVC which is a VERY optimized decoder that supposedly allows you to do CPU decoding at reasonable speed on older hardware.

Wow, that's a shitload of misinformation!

 

[taltamir]

thank AMD and nVidia. thats where I read it. I guess they lied.

except for core AVC... for which I said myself, it SUPPOSEDLY allows that. I have never tried it, upgraded my CPU instead.

Oh and let me rephrase, it has 0 OFFICIAL file decode capability. You COULD juggle a combination of alpha software and codecs to, supposedly, get it working. Good to know there is something being made though, I would love to get it working. Last time I checked it was impossible.

PS. I was only talking about HD decode capability, 264 that is... mpeg2 decoding for DVD is irrelevant since any PC is powerful enough for that.
nvidia DOES sell a plugin to let your video card decode DVDs through windows media player:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/dvd_decoder.html

 

[Tempered81]

lol mkv is a matroska video container, right? Could you just extract, reencode, and keep the 1080P? I've been out of video editing since the release of divx & www.doom9.org.

 

[taltamir]

it is a matrsoka video container. If you are reencoding then whats the point of mentioning its "just a container" and "extracting"? I think you meant something called ReMuxing where you replace one container with another. So, for example, I could remux MKV to AVI, takes only a few seconds.

He COULD reencode it to an HD-DVD transport stream file and make an ISO of a blu-ray/HD-DVD disk with nero, mount it in daemon tools, and play it in winDVD. That will work for getting hardware decode and allow him to watch the 1080p file. But it will take forever to do on a machine that is too slow to even play said file. Plus its way too much work to do for every file he gets.

http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/
is THE tool to remux something to mkv... there is also a good tool to remux to OGM, and there are some ok tools to remux to AVI.

But I don't know of any tool that allows remuxing of mkv to transport streams. Does anyone here know of program that can do that?

 

[taltamir]

Found it, jackpot:
http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo_hd.html

Requirements for HD decode:
1. HD DVD or Blu ray drive with AACS (new encryption method, its a copy protection thing)
2. HDCP enabled video card.
3. HDCP/HDMI enabled display
4. ISV compatbile player...
note that two are shown in the picture, last I checked those are the only ones who do it, Cyberlink's PowerDVD 7 And Intervideo's WinDVD 8

This is the way HD decoding is supposed to work. If you can now decode files directly using open source software on a non HDCP locked machine then it just mean they found a hole in the DRM wall surrounding this "technology".
It is also probably illegal in SEVERAL ways.

Its like me telling you that it is completely possible and easy to install MacOSX on a dell... sure you could do it, with the right cracks...
Actually I WOULD have told you that (and mentioned its illegal and that you, cough, shouldn't do it)... I fully admit that I was completely ignorant to the existence of those things in regards to video decoding.

 

[Auric]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Anyways, I personally find 720p x264 mkv files to be much smaller, and much much easier to decode. And I am unable to tell the difference on my 100+ inch projector/HTPC setup.

Franky, that's disturbing
I generally playback on a cheesy bargain-bin 42" LCD and the difference is blatantly obvious between such 720p reencodes and even common DVB, nevermind unmolested 1080p disc sources.

Originally posted by: TheOtherRizzo

Wow, that's a shitload of misinformation!

lulz... that's actually how I began to respond and then reconsidered and simply stated the facts.

Originally posted by: taltamir

But I don't know of any tool that allows remuxing of mkv to transport streams. Does anyone here know of program that can do that?

As said: tsMuxeR. But you're right, the procedure would be remuxing not reencoding.

MKV is, to be flippant, crap. It's non-standard and generally not playable on stand-alones (although there are exceptions). But in any case, unlike standard commercial containers such as MPEG-2 TS, it cannot be relied upon.

MPC-HC does not violate anti-copy schemes. That has already been bypassed by nature of the ripping process. The OP is apparently in CA so downloading isn't a crime, methinks

Anyway, unless it is unmolested AVC in MKV, which is very unlikely, then it's probably crap (i.e. non-compliant x264 reencode).

Nvidia's PureVideo decoder package has not been relevant this millennium, precisely because the video portion is limited to ye olde timey MPEG-2. As for promotion of decoding HD disc formats, well, that does not exclude the obvious fact that they in turn must rely upon A/V standards -in this case AVC. So of course if the GPU's can decode HD disc formats they can decode AVC (as well as VC-1 and MPEG-2), regardless of the container.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Auric

Originally posted by: taltamir

Anyways, I personally find 720p x264 mkv files to be much smaller, and much much easier to decode. And I am unable to tell the difference on my 100+ inch projector/HTPC setup.

Franky, that's disturbing
I generally playback on a cheesy bargain-bin 42" LCD and the difference is blatantly obvious between such 720p reencodes and even common DVB, nevermind unmolested 1080p disc sources.

I meant compared to a 1080 reencode, not unchanged source to reencode...

Doh, I am an idiot, forgive me I am really tired and sick. I forgot my projector is 720p!
Ofcourse I can't tell the difference, its downscaling the 1080 to 720 anyways!


MKV is awesome, it is the best standard, ever. It is completely open and free, and it is a true and solid standard, it has the LOWEST overhead of anything and the most capability, being able to have as many audio, video and subtitle streams as you want (soft-subbing and dubbing), and since its free it is compatible with any open source program out there and many closed ones as well... however DVD players will only play AVI files and MPEG files, cause they are stupid like that.

 

[xtknight]

Nero might be able to demux mkv containers and hardware accel video?

P.S. Nero ShowTime (the video player).

 

[taltamir]

I think there is a plugin for nero to demux mkv somewhere... not having any luck googling for it, too much other junk comes up instead. But thats for reencoding only...
Demuxing is for reencoding. You are just looking for a way to make it play it. All you need is a splitter, once there any video player that uses splitters (practically all) will play MKV files for you.

Not sure about showtime built in capabilities.

But for an mkv splitter:
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Lazy_Man_MKV.htm

Where does it say that showtime supports GPU acceleration for HD?

Your best bet is to first try remuxing it to a transport stream using the software auric mentioned. there is a slim chance of it working (since the mkv is almost certainly a reencoded 264 and not just remuxed. I don't know how flexible the HD decode capabilities are, and I doubt that the file is in the HD-DVD or Blu-ray encoding.. well i don't know what word to use. its not format because they are both x264.

Heck who knows, it might work. I got a DVD player that can play divx and it plays xvid files fine too...

Nvidia's PureVideo decoder package has not been relevant this millennium, precisely because the video portion is limited to ye olde timey MPEG-2. As for promotion of decoding HD disc formats, well, that does not exclude the obvious fact that they in turn must rely upon A/V standards -in this case AVC. So of course if the GPU's can decode HD disc formats they can decode AVC (as well as VC-1 and MPEG-2), regardless of the container.

Ofcourse the HARDWARE is capable of decoding it regardless of container. Heck it should be able to decode similar codecs too from the same standard (h264 vs x264 for example).
EDIT: yap, this confirms it, x264 is also an option. http://forum.doom9.org/showthr...kv+acceleration&page=6 thanks TroubleM

The point I was making is that the driver, software, and hardware are all build with interlocking DRM. And I wasn't aware that it has been bypassed.
I looked up the AMD tech specs and they too go on about HDCP.

I was under the mistaken assumption that to bypass the DRM you would have to AT LEAST modify the drivers (or maybe even use a modchip) to remove said DRM, but apperantly you can access the decoding functions of the GPU with open source software without molesting the drivers at all.
Meaning they either flat out lied about DRM being a requirement and hoped nobody will notice.
Or just put up some token DRM into the drivers which is extremely easy to bypass.

 

[TroubleM]

MKV hardware acceleration:

Cyberlink h264 Decoder (PowerDVD)
ANY player using Enhanced Video Renderer + DXVA
File encoded with these rules Link

Some files that were encoded in other unsupported profiles for hardware acceleration can also be transcoded without loss to the right profile (check the above link, I know it's a long thread...) in a matter of minutes.

To find all of these and set it correctly check this.

Nvidia+AMD/Ati are at fault here. They claim h264 Hardware acceleration, yet they require you to buy software from a third party to enjoy this. Encoding in h264 has long gone beyond BluRay/HDDvd, now it's Flash HD, Quick Time etc.
This is not right.:disgust: