Has anyone done a fast longer than 1 day?

[crashtech]

Certainly if one enters a fast directly from a high-carb fed state, the resultant hormonal disruption will cause some severe hunger pains, I have experienced them myself. In a healthy person, they are akin to a (very loud and difficult to ignore) "false alarm," since at that point one's body is typically conditioned to regular feedings of large amounts of carbohydrate. It's way more comfortable to enter a fast from either a low-glycemic regimen or preferably a low-carb regimen, imo. The fasted state IS ketosis, the body switching to pure fat stores for energy, while the liver performs gluconeogenesis to feed the very few tissues that cannot use ketones, like the corneas.

 

[ArchAngel777]

I'll never forget. I had an teacher in junior high school who one day said to the class "none of you have ever been hungry." I suppose she explained that she meant a level of hunger far beyond being an hour or two past your accustomed meal. She was referring to people who are seriously malnurished, people who experience real starvation. I never have, for sure.

The teacher probably used a poor choice of words. However, her point remains. I also have never been "starving" either, as in, near death. It is my understanding that at some point, it no longer hurts to starve. with one exception: You have small amounts of food, which never lets the digestive system shut down. You become largely lifeless, lethargic and not all there. This is general apathy, and occurs even while fasting. I have experienced this.

After you stop eating food, at some point the digestion system shuts down (24-48 hours) and shortly after, it stops sending painful signals of hunger. Certainly your body isn't stupid, so it isn't going to stop all warnings. You will feel tired, apathetic, your body will hurt, joints, muscles. You will barely want to move, because even that is a monumental effort. But the pain, if one does not want to die, would be largely psychological, but without energy to care, you just exist in a near vegetative state.

A personal anecdote: During my longer fasts, I would experience this "apathy". I wasn't physically in pain, but psychologically, I was. Imagine sitting in a chair as a paraplegic see other kids run. You want to run. But you can't. However, you know that if you do XYZ, you will be able to run. The temptation to do XYZ becomes psychological as you are in no physical pain.

While cutting, I sometimes feel so run down on energy, where I can't even muster the energy to do things that I *love* to do, and this creates a temptation to eat a large of food, because I know that my energy will return and I can do XYZ. Sure enough, when I do this, my energy returns and I am back to doing the things I love. But am I experiencing pain in these energy deficient stages? No - not physical pain, just the pain of being unhappily bored and uninterested in things that I enjoy.

You may find this interesting:

Starvation Painful?

 

[crashtech]

I have not experienced apathy or lethargy during my fasts. In fact, I find when my body and brain are running on ketones, I have improved mental clarity and adequate energy levels. But then again I have plenty of fat stores to work with. Someone with very low body fat could experience lethargy because the body would be trying to protect what was left of its fat stores to avoid the destructive next step, catabolism of muscle tissues. I would not recommend fasting to someone with low body fat, although it's probably used in competition environments.

 

[ArchAngel777]

I have not experienced apathy or lethargy during my fasts. In fact, I find when my body and brain are running on ketones, I have improved mental clarity and adequate energy levels. But then again I have plenty of fat stores to work with. Someone with very low body fat could experience lethargy because the body would be trying to protect what was left of its fat stores to avoid the destructive next step, catabolism of muscle tissues. I would not recommend fasting to someone with low body fat, although it's probably used in competition environments.

For the most part, yes. But keep in mind that carbs are high octane fuel. High performance. A 400m competitive runner will never, ever, be competitive on a ketogenic diet. The fat oxidation, no matter how upregulated will not be able to meet the energy demands. Hence, your 100% on keto will still be 100% effort, but your performance will lag.

If you are an explosive based athlete, you just won't be able compete under keto. That doesn't mean you can't physically perform the movements or play in the sport, but that your performance, relative to your standard high carb diet will suffer greatly, in both perceived effort and actual performance.

For example, if you keep HR at around 60%, clearly in the aerobic threshold, Keto will work just fine. You will have endless energy and perform well. Perhaps with time, even surpassing a glucosed based diet. But once you start training very high intensity, keto just cannot physically keep up. This is generally accepted by even the most die hard keto guys.

In other words, when I train high intensity, keto or fasting is a exhausting ordeal. It isn't painful at rest, or light intensity, but it sure seems like it is twice the effort to do anything mid to high intensity and my performance is about 20% lower.

And, yes, the more body fat the easier it is to diet without lethargy. When I fast at 20% bf, it is far easier than when I do it at 12%. Both with hunger and energy levels.

 

[crashtech]

@ArchAngel777 , I am definitely not an athlete, and I think the needs of athletes or people who are very physically active can be very different for sure. I'm willing to venture that most of the people that read this thread live a relatively sedentary lifestyle, what do you think?

 

[ArchAngel777]

I'm willing to venture that most of the people that read this thread live a relatively sedentary lifestyle, what do you think?

Yep, I agree. Keto (and fasting) can be a very great plan for a light exerciser/sedentary individual. It can also work for ultra endurance athletes, if done correctly and given enough time to adapt. The term athlete, I suppose, is loaded. Although I am not an elite athlete at any level, I absolutely do train like one at least 9 months out of the year and I aspire to be the best version of myself, physically, despite being now on the physical decline just ever so slightly (38). God, getting old is depressing.

But what isn't depressing? Seeing my son consistently take 1st in Track and Cross Country and seeing him really pour effort into that, and calisthenics. He is a lean, mean machine (naturally, lol, unlike me), and will likely be stronger than me within a year or two. Already at 13 he is pound for pound on par in most lifts. So getting old is depressing, but it is redeemed by pouring our time to invest into others and seeing them take off and achieve their dreams.

I have no idea where he received his genetics... It certainly didn't come from my wife's side, and I don't seem to have that talent and leanness naturally, either. How can a kid, who doesn't diet at all, walk around with a 6 pack? He won the genetic lottery and yet he is clearly my son! I don't even need to tell anyone, they come up and say "Wow, he looks just like you"... I am like, sorry for him, right? lol

 

[Muse]

The teacher probably used a poor choice of words. However, her point remains.

Exactly true. She was a scary woman, taught Social Studies. One day we took a test and I was so terrified of the woman that I couldn't take my eyes off her. She interpreted my attention as looking for an opportunity to glance at my neighbor's test sheet and she actually reported me for cheating and had a letter sent to my parents. The fact is that I wasn't cheating and have never done that in my life. I set the record straight with my parents and they complained to the school. Miss O'Brien. A stern wench like that is not to be forgotten. Her hair was jet black and she had something of a faint blackish mustache. She was undoubtedly deeply frustrated sexually.

 

[CalebRockeT]

A stern wench like that is not to be forgotten.

Made me giggle.

 

[Muse]

Made me giggle.

It's not what I wrote initially, but Anandtech's digital censor changed it to something absurd, so I wrote that instead. I used a word rhyming with hunt. Uke Hunt, is a band name.

 

[mike8675309]

Note, it's not the fasting that is good for you. It's the recovery. the fasting puts stress on your body as it seeks to survive. Like exercise, it's the recovery from the stress where the body wins, building new cells, switching back normal performance. Long term fasting should only be done under the guidance of health professionals as you need to make sure you get the necessary minerals and such to protect your neurological system and cardio system.
Note that while some may report fasting helps their digestive problems often fasting only puts the bugs in your gut into sleep mode, just waiting for the food to show back up and allow them to flourish again. fasting for digestive issues generally isn't recommended, better to identify those problems and attack them head-on.

 

[Muse]

Note that while some may report fasting helps their digestive problems often fasting only puts the bugs in your gut into sleep mode, just waiting for the food to show back up and allow them to flourish again. fasting for digestive issues generally isn't recommended, better to identify those problems and attack them head-on.

I think I might have (or had) something like that this year for quite a while, and maybe a year before that. I have started taking daily probiotic capsules. Feeling way better, maybe coincidentally.

 

[mike8675309]

I think I might have (or had) something like that this year for quite a while, and maybe a year before that. I have started taking daily probiotic capsules. Feeling way better, maybe coincidentally.

Hopefully that is helping. Eating leafy greens and legumes can help as well.

 

[Muse]

Hopefully that is helping. Eating leafy greens and legumes can help as well.

Yeah, I've not been eating enough of them the last month or so, have to up my consumption. Did a search on legumes (not simply synonymous with "beans"):

What are examples of legumes?

Beans. The most common varieties of legumes are beans. These include adzuki beans, black beans, soybeans, anasazi beans, fava beans, garbanzo beans (chickpeas), kidney beans and lima beans. These foods are high in protein and carbohydrates but low in fat.

Edit: I think they are also high if fiber. I have all those on hand except adzuki (never heard of), anasazi (not heard of them either), fava (used to grow them), not sure if I have any soy beans on hand... I used to make soy tempeh.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Wait is legume not the same as vegetable? In French it is.

 

[mike8675309]

Yeah, I've not been eating enough of them the last month or so, have to up my consumption. Did a search on legumes (not simply synonymous with "beans"):

What are examples of legumes?

Beans. The most common varieties of legumes are beans. These include adzuki beans, black beans, soybeans, anasazi beans, fava beans, garbanzo beans (chickpeas), kidney beans and lima beans. These foods are high in protein and carbohydrates but low in fat.

Edit: I think they are also high if fiber. I have all those on hand except adzuki (never heard of), anasazi (not heard of them either), fava (used to grow them), not sure if I have any soy beans on hand... I used to make soy tempeh.

Beans, Lentils, Peas, Chickpeas.

 

[Muse]

Beans, Lentils, Peas, Chickpeas.

I made a pan of Louisiana style red beans and rice yesterday in honor or our legume discussion. Very tasty! Organic red beans, organic short grain brown rice, fried onions and bell peppers, celery, garlic, thyme, sage, salt, pepper, 1/2 Andouille sausage, sliced. A few drops of Tabasco!