Has prayer ever worked for you?

[Juddog]

I prayed for the dice to roll a 7; out of 8 prayers, 4 worked. I guess that means God is watching!

 

[dud]

OP, sorry for your loss. I have seen my share of death (lost both my parents and all who came before them).

Just an observation: You've come to the wrong place if you want an honest, objective opinion on prayer. This is a tech forum where the computer is "god". Most people here are not aetheists per se ... they typically believe in whatever they can see, touch, taste and feel ... and no more. They enjoy mocking those who actually have faith, belittling themselves in the process.

It's amazing how much courage can be afforded by the annonimity that the Internet provides.

 

[Juddog]

OP, sorry for your loss. I have seen my share of death (lost both my parents and all who came before them).

Just an observation: You've come to the wrong place if you want an honest, objective opinion on prayer. This is a tech forum where the computer is "god". Most people here are not aetheists per se ... they typically believe in whatever they can see, touch, taste and feel ... and no more. They enjoy mocking those who actually have faith, belittling themselves in the process.

It's amazing how much courage can be afforded by the annonimity that the Internet provides.

It's a discussion club, made for debates. If the OP wanted actual hand holding and emotional support, the L&R section is typically much better for that. If you don't want a topic to be debated, then don't post in the discussion club.

I have gone through trying to pray as a child and at some point realized it was simply fantasy; the most you can hope for is a placebo effect at best. The problem is that some religious people tend to attribute anything swinging towards their favor as God somehow shining down upon them, the special unique snowflake, but the reality of it is that prayers are no more useful than meditation. It calms the mind and gives rest, but the exact same effect can be achieved through deep meditation, as proven via studies where they actually ran an MRI scan on people's brains while studying versus praying and found it was pretty much the exact same effect.

http://www.news.wisc.edu/13890

I've lost a lot of friends and family over the years as well; it's tough, there is no doubt about that, but prayer in trying to stop a disease from progressing is pointless, the only thing it does is give some comfort to the person praying that they tried to do something.

An example would be the parents that decided to pray for their child to get better instead of taking her to the doctor; the child died. Read the story and then ask yourself again if prayer works or not - the obvious answer should be that it doesn't.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/03/parents-prayer-death-children/2485599/

 

[v-600]

Just an observation: You've come to the wrong place if you want an honest, objective opinion on prayer. This is a tech forum where the computer is "god". Most people here are not aetheists per se ... they typically believe in whatever they can see, touch, taste and feel ... and no more. They enjoy mocking those who actually have faith, belittling themselves in the process.

It's amazing how much courage can be afforded by the annonimity that the Internet provides.

I disagree with you. What would you say an objective opinion on prayer looked like? I've read people saying praying it works, and people saying it doesn't. I'd suggest you're more likely to get an objective answer here than on a pro-religious forum (or a pro-athiest one for that matter).

My real name is Nathan, I live in Kathmandu. If you really want I will post you a picture of me. Then I will still say that I don't think praying is an effective solution to problems. I certainly wouldn't go to somebody's deathbed and tell their relatives in person because that would be insensitive. Fortunately that didn't happen. The OP asked us what we thought. After the fact and as someone who I assume wanted honest answers, rather than someone who would just agree with them (otherwise why post in the discussion forum).

Lastly I'm sure I've not mocked anyone, whether they agree with my views or otherwise.

 

[Juddog]

How much money have you donated to starving children over the past say...10 years?

How often do you pass bums in your neighborhood without lending them your warm bed for a night or two?

Or, how many food drives and soup kitchens have you personally attended, sponsored, ran?

Oh, you're waiting for God too....or someone else to do it!!

We're discussing prayer to God, not to me. If you want to pray to me though, I'll accept your mental energy. Please start sending me 10% of your paycheck each week and I'll even send you an autographed picture.

 

[Retro Rob]

I disagree with you. What would you say an objective opinion on prayer looked like? I've read people saying praying it works, and people saying it doesn't. I'd suggest you're more likely to get an objective answer here than on a pro-religious forum (or a pro-athiest one for that matter).

My real name is Nathan, I live in Kathmandu. If you really want I will post you a picture of me. Then I will still say that I don't think praying is an effective solution to problems. I certainly wouldn't go to somebody's deathbed and tell their relatives in person because that would be insensitive. Fortunately that didn't happen. The OP asked us what we thought. After the fact and as someone who I assume wanted honest answers, rather than someone who would just agree with them (otherwise why post in the discussion forum).

Lastly I'm sure I've not mocked anyone, whether they agree with my views or otherwise.

I agree with your first paragraph, mainly because you're right -- it may work in some case, and it may not in others.

Motive plays a big role in whether or not prayers are answered. Its quite telling when I hear people say they did "test prayers" as a child for God to show himself to them (usually through some supernatrual occurence, or asking to be blessed with a large sum of money) and immediately they conclude prayers don't work if it doesn't happen. :\

If you ask God for wisdom to help you to understand the Bible, for instance, which is NOT a selfish prayer, you're likely to get hearing and response.

 

[Retro Rob]

We're discussing prayer to God, not to me. If you want to pray to me though, I'll accept your mental energy. Please start sending me 10% of your paycheck each week and I'll even send you an autographed picture.

Of course, but it's hypocritcal to rip someone for not praying for "starving children" when you yourself evidently don't, and likely haven't donated a dime or a second of your personal time to any fund/drive dedicated to feeding starving children.

 

[Juddog]

Of course, but it's hypocritcal to rip someone for not praying for "starving children" when you yourself evidently don't, and likely haven't donated a dime or a second of your personal time to any fund/drive dedicated to feeding starving children.

I never answered whether I've given a dime or second to fund / drive starving children; I only pointed out that praying for a job or praying for your sports team to win is pointless. The odds of you getting the job will be based solely upon your qualifications and who you know in the company you're applying to, and the sports team winning or not will be based solely upon player performance.

That's why I laugh when I see the locker room footage where you have two teams going against each other and they're both seen praying to win the game, but only one team can win. Apparently God is too weak to change the rules of football.

 

[Juddog]

I agree with your first paragraph, mainly because you're right -- it may work in some case, and it may not in others.

If it seems like it works sometimes, but then doesn't work the other half of the time, guess what - that's proof that it doesn't do anything. For prayer to change the outcome of something requires a greater than 50/50 chance. It should be easy to test - put someone in a chamber, have them pray that that number comes out greater than 50, and have the random generator create a number a thousand times per person. See if the prayer changes the outcome or not.

The fact is that tests like these have been done, and guess what - prayer didn't change the outcome.

 

[TreyRandom]

Still not getting the logistics of this.

If you pray for a job and get it does that mean that god doesn't like everyone else that prayed to get the same job? Or did god just think you were the most deserving? If so wouldn't you have been just as deserving even if you hadn't prayed?

No... it simply means that God has a different plan for you. It might not be an easy plan, and it might not be a plan that offers a lot of material rewards, but it's a plan that will be beneficial in some way. And it might not be something that is directly beneficial for me... God's plan might involve me being beneficial for others.

And what's with getting lots of people to pray? If god ignores your prayer is he more likely to grant it if lots of people shout at him? That seems... wrong?

God's not a genie who grants wishes. He answers all prayers, but sometimes not in the way we expect, and sometimes in a way that is hard to understand why. Even though your parents loved you and had only the best intentions for you, they didn't give you everything you asked for, did they? By that same token, your creator won't give you everything you ask for even though He loves you and knows what the best plan is even when we don't understand why things happen the way they do.

 

[v-600]

Let me just think this through.

God has a plan.
Gods plan isn't always what you expect.
If you pray and you don't get the answer you want, its because god didn't change his plans or what you want didn't fit in with the plan.
Gods plan progresses on anyway?

VS

God has a plan.
Gods plan isn't always what you expect.
If you don't pray, nothing happens.
Gods plan progresses on anyway?

Explain the point of praying please.

 

[Retro Rob]

I never answered whether I've given a dime or second to fund / drive starving children; I only pointed out that praying for a job or praying for your sports team to win is pointless. The odds of you getting the job will be based solely upon your qualifications and who you know in the company you're applying to, and the sports team winning or not will be based solely upon player performance.

That's why I laugh when I see the locker room footage where you have two teams going against each other and they're both seen praying to win the game, but only one team can win. Apparently God is too weak to change the rules of football.

The sports analogy I understand, because God cannot be on both sides, or he'd be fighting against his own interests.


As praying for a job, who can say for certain if prayer worked or not? You can't, because you cannot look into the future and say "well, that call was coming anyway".... there is no way you can know that.

In fact, I'm praying for a job right now.... am I going to get a call in the next half-hour or so?

This is a serious question... can you honestly say I'm going to get a call in the next 15 minutes, because if I do, you'd probably claim it was going to happen, so I want to put that to a real-life test.

 

[Retro Rob]

If it seems like it works sometimes, but then doesn't work the other half of the time, guess what - that's proof that it doesn't do anything. For prayer to change the outcome of something requires a greater than 50/50 chance. It should be easy to test - put someone in a chamber, have them pray that that number comes out greater than 50, and have the random generator create a number a thousand times per person. See if the prayer changes the outcome or not.

The fact is that tests like these have been done, and guess what - prayer didn't change the outcome.

When I said "work" I really mean "answered" or "unanswered" for clarity.

 

[Juddog]

When I said "work" I really mean "answered" or "unanswered" for clarity.

Either the prayer is answered or it's not - it's quite easy to see using a random generator test and double blind study.

 

[TreyRandom]

Let me just think this through.

God has a plan.
Gods plan isn't always what you expect.
If you pray and you don't get the answer you want, its because god didn't change his plans or what you want didn't fit in with the plan.
Gods plan progresses on anyway?

VS

God has a plan.
Gods plan isn't always what you expect.
If you don't pray, nothing happens.
Gods plan progresses on anyway?

Explain the point of praying please.

Praying isn't for getting what you want. Prayer is for talking with and building a relationship with God. I didn't stop talking to my parents because they didn't do what I wanted them to do for me... I trusted that they had my best interests at heart, even when I didn't understand why.

And as for whether God's mind can be changed by prayer... who says it can't? It is certainly possible. I don't pretend to know the mind of God, so I can't tell you how it all works... no more than I could tell you how life worked when I was three and didn't understand things about my parents' decisions.

 

[Juddog]

The sports analogy I understand, because God cannot be on both sides, or he'd be fighting against his own interests.

So even God has limits according to you and thus is not omnipotent.

Basically under your logic the people that flied the planes into the WTC on 9/11 got their prayers answered, because God was on their side that day.

 

[Juddog]

Praying isn't for getting what you want. Prayer is for talking with and building a relationship with God. I didn't stop talking to my parents because they didn't do what I wanted them to do for me... I trusted that they had my best interests at heart, even when I didn't understand why.

And as for whether God's mind can be changed by prayer... who says it can't? It is certainly possible. I don't pretend to know the mind of God, so I can't tell you how it all works... no more than I could tell you how life worked when I was three and didn't understand things about my parents' decisions.

Saying that you can change God's plan via prayer is no different than saying you think God's plan is wrong. Suddenly now you believe yourself better than God?

 

[v-600]

Praying isn't for getting what you want. Prayer is for talking with and building a relationship with God. I didn't stop talking to my parents because they didn't do what I wanted them to do for me... I trusted that they had my best interests at heart, even when I didn't understand why.

At least we seem agree. Prayer isn't for affecting change in the physical world, but works to make you feel better. So in answer to the OP's question, yes something good comes from it, it makes you feel better.

 

[Juddog]

At least we seem agree. Prayer isn't for affecting change in the physical world, but works to make you feel better. So in answer to the OP's question, yes something good comes from it, it makes you feel better.

This is something I can agree with; families in grieving are suffering themselves, from worry. Prayer has the same effect as meditation, in giving the brain quiet, peace, and rest - in this way it is beneficial to the person who is praying.

 

[TreyRandom]

Saying that you can change God's plan via prayer is no different than saying you think God's plan is wrong. Suddenly now you believe yourself better than God?

No, I said that it is possible. I don't know for certain whether we can or not. Again, I don't know the mind of God, and I can't tell you how He runs things.

Here's a cool analysis of the "prayer paradox": link

 

[Retro Rob]

Either the prayer is answered or it's not - it's quite easy to see using a random generator test and double blind study.

If you're a parent, do you give your kids everything they ask for?

Sometimes, requests are denied....its simple logic. Unless you think God should either answer or reject all prayers, but things simply do not work that way, and logically and consistently cannot.

Case in point, what if you wronged someone and they prayed you die instantly, a horrible painful and slow death? Should that prayer be answered?

I say no! I'm glad some prayers are unanswered because of the vindictive and evil crap people have prayed for.

 

[Retro Rob]

Either the prayer is answered or it's not - it's quite easy to see using a random generator test and double blind study.

If you're a parent, do you give your kids everything they ask for?

Sometimes, requests are denied....its simple logic. Unless you think God should either answer or reject all prayers, but things simply do not work that way, and logically and consistently cannot.

Case in point, what if you wronged someone and they prayed you die instantly, or a horrible painful and slow death? Should that prayer be answered?

I say no! I'm glad some prayers are unanswered because of the vindictive and evil crap people have prayed for.

 

[TreyRandom]

Either the prayer is answered or it's not - it's quite easy to see using a random generator test and double blind study.

By "prayer is answered", you really mean "prayer made stuff change". But "No, I'm not going to change your random number" is an answer. It's not the outcome you wanted, but it's still an answer.

 

[Retro Rob]

So even God has limits according to you and thus is not omnipotent.

Basically under your logic the people that flied the planes into the WTC on 9/11 got their prayers answered, because God was on their side that day.

I didn't say God has limits, I said God says "no".

What, you think every prayer should be answered to prove God is limitless?

Do you have to give your kids everything they ask for to prove you have the ability to fulfill said request?

 

[Retro Rob]

By "prayer is answered", you really mean "prayer made stuff change". But "No, I'm not going to change your random number" is an answer. It's not the outcome you wanted, but it's still an answer.

Yeah, unanswered means "I'm not fulfilling said request" not "I am not responding".