OP, sorry for your loss. I have seen my share of death (lost both my parents and all who came before them).
Just an observation: You've come to the wrong place if you want an honest, objective opinion on prayer. This is a tech forum where the computer is "god". Most people here are not aetheists per se ... they typically believe in whatever they can see, touch, taste and feel ... and no more. They enjoy mocking those who actually have faith, belittling themselves in the process.
It's amazing how much courage can be afforded by the annonimity that the Internet provides.
Just an observation: You've come to the wrong place if you want an honest, objective opinion on prayer. This is a tech forum where the computer is "god". Most people here are not aetheists per se ... they typically believe in whatever they can see, touch, taste and feel ... and no more. They enjoy mocking those who actually have faith, belittling themselves in the process.
It's amazing how much courage can be afforded by the annonimity that the Internet provides.
How much money have you donated to starving children over the past say...10 years?
How often do you pass bums in your neighborhood without lending them your warm bed for a night or two?
Or, how many food drives and soup kitchens have you personally attended, sponsored, ran?
Oh, you're waiting for God too....or someone else to do it!!
I disagree with you. What would you say an objective opinion on prayer looked like? I've read people saying praying it works, and people saying it doesn't. I'd suggest you're more likely to get an objective answer here than on a pro-religious forum (or a pro-athiest one for that matter).
My real name is Nathan, I live in Kathmandu. If you really want I will post you a picture of me. Then I will still say that I don't think praying is an effective solution to problems. I certainly wouldn't go to somebody's deathbed and tell their relatives in person because that would be insensitive. Fortunately that didn't happen. The OP asked us what we thought. After the fact and as someone who I assume wanted honest answers, rather than someone who would just agree with them (otherwise why post in the discussion forum).
Lastly I'm sure I've not mocked anyone, whether they agree with my views or otherwise.
We're discussing prayer to God, not to me. If you want to pray to me though, I'll accept your mental energy. Please start sending me 10% of your paycheck each week and I'll even send you an autographed picture.
Of course, but it's hypocritcal to rip someone for not praying for "starving children" when you yourself evidently don't, and likely haven't donated a dime or a second of your personal time to any fund/drive dedicated to feeding starving children.
I agree with your first paragraph, mainly because you're right -- it may work in some case, and it may not in others.
Still not getting the logistics of this.
If you pray for a job and get it does that mean that god doesn't like everyone else that prayed to get the same job? Or did god just think you were the most deserving? If so wouldn't you have been just as deserving even if you hadn't prayed?
And what's with getting lots of people to pray? If god ignores your prayer is he more likely to grant it if lots of people shout at him? That seems... wrong?
I never answered whether I've given a dime or second to fund / drive starving children; I only pointed out that praying for a job or praying for your sports team to win is pointless. The odds of you getting the job will be based solely upon your qualifications and who you know in the company you're applying to, and the sports team winning or not will be based solely upon player performance.
That's why I laugh when I see the locker room footage where you have two teams going against each other and they're both seen praying to win the game, but only one team can win. Apparently God is too weak to change the rules of football.
If it seems like it works sometimes, but then doesn't work the other half of the time, guess what - that's proof that it doesn't do anything. For prayer to change the outcome of something requires a greater than 50/50 chance. It should be easy to test - put someone in a chamber, have them pray that that number comes out greater than 50, and have the random generator create a number a thousand times per person. See if the prayer changes the outcome or not.
The fact is that tests like these have been done, and guess what - prayer didn't change the outcome.
When I said "work" I really mean "answered" or "unanswered" for clarity.
Let me just think this through.
God has a plan.
Gods plan isn't always what you expect.
If you pray and you don't get the answer you want, its because god didn't change his plans or what you want didn't fit in with the plan.
Gods plan progresses on anyway?
VS
God has a plan.
Gods plan isn't always what you expect.
If you don't pray, nothing happens.
Gods plan progresses on anyway?
Explain the point of praying please.
The sports analogy I understand, because God cannot be on both sides, or he'd be fighting against his own interests.
Praying isn't for getting what you want. Prayer is for talking with and building a relationship with God. I didn't stop talking to my parents because they didn't do what I wanted them to do for me... I trusted that they had my best interests at heart, even when I didn't understand why.
And as for whether God's mind can be changed by prayer... who says it can't? It is certainly possible. I don't pretend to know the mind of God, so I can't tell you how it all works... no more than I could tell you how life worked when I was three and didn't understand things about my parents' decisions.
Praying isn't for getting what you want. Prayer is for talking with and building a relationship with God. I didn't stop talking to my parents because they didn't do what I wanted them to do for me... I trusted that they had my best interests at heart, even when I didn't understand why.
At least we seem agree. Prayer isn't for affecting change in the physical world, but works to make you feel better. So in answer to the OP's question, yes something good comes from it, it makes you feel better.
Saying that you can change God's plan via prayer is no different than saying you think God's plan is wrong. Suddenly now you believe yourself better than God?
Either the prayer is answered or it's not - it's quite easy to see using a random generator test and double blind study.
Either the prayer is answered or it's not - it's quite easy to see using a random generator test and double blind study.
Either the prayer is answered or it's not - it's quite easy to see using a random generator test and double blind study.
So even God has limits according to you and thus is not omnipotent.
Basically under your logic the people that flied the planes into the WTC on 9/11 got their prayers answered, because God was on their side that day.
By "prayer is answered", you really mean "prayer made stuff change". But "No, I'm not going to change your random number" is an answer. It's not the outcome you wanted, but it's still an answer.