Has the AMD PLATFORM been outclassed for good? (***NO FANBOYS***)

[qquizz]

2 Things:
It costs a lot more, and it took Intel a year to catch up with Nforce2 chipset which have matured.

 

[techiecool]

mainstream america can live w/ a p3 600 to do everything they want. people here are the exception with the know how. at work i have 3 development pcs: p4 1.6, p4 1.8, amd 1700. i do software development and i can tell you that the p4 machines run through everything easily were as the amd struggles mightly. it depends on the app. pure speed vs processing power vs optimized software. i have a friend who works for motorola in the chip design department. and he and his coworkers all agree that the amd represents better value, but not necessarily the best performance. pick your use, then your chip. both work, but the amd chips are a step behind as of now. and a side note, by the time most people by their hsf after buying oem amd chips, you normally add $20-30 to your cost. so a $50 processor is more like $80.

 

[floccus]

mainstream america can live w/ a p3 600 to do everything they want.

How can you say that? True most people over 30 just use a computer for email and the web and light gaming, but their kids and a heck of a lot of college students play a lot of games that require a lot of power. Kids are constantly forcing their parents to buy them a new pc that is faster and more powerful, because they want to play newer and better games. So I don't buy into the statement that mainstream america can live w/ 600 Mhz. The statement should be that mainstream software can run adequately on 600Mhz.

 

[Noid]

ZZZZzzzzzzzzz........

Isnt this the MB forum?

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: Noid
ZZZZzzzzzzzzz........

Isnt this the MB forum?

And I was talking about motherboards (Canterwood anybody?). Read the first post in the thread.

 

[mechBgon]

I wish the Canterwood review had an i850E board in it. Comparing Canterwood to i845PE is sort of like comparing a Corvette to an EscortGT... where's the Camaro Z-28? I'm pretty certain that the ranking would go like this:

[*]mostly 1st: Canterwood with 3.0GHz @ 800MHz FSB, dual-DDR
[*]mostly 2nd: i850E with 3.06GHz @ 533MHz FSB, PC1066 RDRAM
[*]very 3rd: i845PE with 3.0GHz @ 800MHz FSB, PC2700

In short, to make Canterwood look great, compare it to a bandwidth-starved platform that's trying to feed an 800MHz-FSB CPU with PC2700. Throw in the platform that the P4 was originally designed for (and vice versa), and maybe it will look a little less dramatic. Not to detract from the merit of Canterwood/Springdale, which will be pretty cool if they reach the ~$150 area or less.

 

[Noid]

Your thread should say .. Nforce2 platform...

Your title is misleading also.

The last AMD mb I bought was the AMD 761 chipset. (MSI K7master)

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: Noid
Your thread should say .. Nforce2 platform...

Your title is misleading also.

The last AMD mb I bought was the AMD 761 chipset. (MSI K7master)

I apologize for the confusion. The thrust of my thread is the platform, encompassing the CPU and the motherboard. I shall revise the threat title to reflect this.

 

[orion7144]

I have built well over 30 pc's in the last couple of months with about a 60% P4 40% AthlonXP split. I have 3 of my own pc's that all used to be XP's. Based on my building and testing of systems I am now converting to P4's. Bechmarks suck. They do not tell half of the story. I just couldn't believe the "feel" the P4's had at doing everyday things (for me anyway) i.e. the occasional game, compressing and decompressing files, DVD authoring, etc. I was an avid AMD user since 94' back then you were lucky if you could get Win 3.1 installed while my friends with 386/486 pc's had no problems. But I stuck with them until just recently.

Originally posted by: beenlurkingforyears
A couple of additional points to keep in mind: AMD gives the better 'bang for the buck' and the competition between AMD and Intel has kept the prices down. (I don't want to think about what we'd be paying for CPUs if the competition was like the OS market!)

By buying AMD I get great performance, pay less, and do my part to make sure there is healthy competition.

(Full disclosure: I own stock in AMD, Intel, and MS ;-)

Has anybody seen AMD's earnings for this quarter. Another huge loss and Intel is putting pricing pressure on by reducing their CPU prices and analyst's are betting on Intel significantly reducing flash prices which would hurt AMD even worse.

 

[magomago]

I got my processor mainly because its affordable. I figure if I can get within ~80% preformance for a lot cheaper then its worth it. The other nice thing is that we aren't switching sockets so often. My friend has a kt133a with a 1800+ in unlike my other friend who undoubtly has a better computer but had to buy a new (And expensive...) mobo.

But I do hope that the athlon64 wastes the P4 because well...it has to. It is not made to compete with the P4, but rather the next Generation of Presscotts (and according to sources this thing might not even be called the P4) and eventually Tejas and if it cannot utterly destroy the P4 now then it won't have a chance later vs the other processors.

Perhaps having apps customized for 64bit will be its savior just like the P4 currently enjoys most of its leads due to SSE2 optimization?

 

[mastertech01]

I went to Dual Athlon for about 6 months and then switched back to Intel P4 2.85 on a board that used the 32bit RDRAM for about 6 months. Something was just missing using that P4 system and I couldnt quite put a pin on it. I decided to upgrade my 8 single processor machines to 4 dually Athlon machines and I can tell you the responsiveness is just too sweet. For the money of a single high speed Intel system I have to say the dual Athlon system is so much smoother and it will take a lot for me to go back to Intel single processor again. Just personal preferrence and no knocking of either system. IMHO

 

[Cerb]

AMD does have some catching up to do. However, this thread has also shown that they still have a niche, and with the recent preview at Xbit of the slowest Athlon64, things are looking good. In addition, let's hope the 400MHz Bartons don't get extra PR points for being 400MHz.

 

[oldfart]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
I wish the Canterwood review had an i850E board in it. Comparing Canterwood to i845PE is sort of like comparing a Corvette to an EscortGT... where's the Camaro Z-28? I'm pretty certain that the ranking would go like this:

[*]mostly 1st: Canterwood with 3.0GHz @ 800MHz FSB, dual-DDR
[*]mostly 2nd: i850E with 3.06GHz @ 533MHz FSB, PC1066 RDRAM
[*]very 3rd: i845PE with 3.0GHz @ 800MHz FSB, PC2700

In short, to make Canterwood look great, compare it to a bandwidth-starved platform that's trying to feed an 800MHz-FSB CPU with PC2700. Throw in the platform that the P4 was originally designed for (and vice versa), and maybe it will look a little less dramatic. Not to detract from the merit of Canterwood/Springdale, which will be pretty cool if they reach the ~$150 area or less.

Do a search on Pricewatch for "865PE".

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: oldfart

Originally posted by: mechBgon
I wish the Canterwood review had an i850E board in it. Comparing Canterwood to i845PE is sort of like comparing a Corvette to an EscortGT... where's the Camaro Z-28? I'm pretty certain that the ranking would go like this:

[*]mostly 1st: Canterwood with 3.0GHz @ 800MHz FSB, dual-DDR
[*]mostly 2nd: i850E with 3.06GHz @ 533MHz FSB, PC1066 RDRAM
[*]very 3rd: i845PE with 3.0GHz @ 800MHz FSB, PC2700

In short, to make Canterwood look great, compare it to a bandwidth-starved platform that's trying to feed an 800MHz-FSB CPU with PC2700. Throw in the platform that the P4 was originally designed for (and vice versa), and maybe it will look a little less dramatic. Not to detract from the merit of Canterwood/Springdale, which will be pretty cool if they reach the ~$150 area or less.

Do a search on Pricewatch for "865PE".

Aha, $99 on up, that's more like it. Intel painted themselves into a corner when they designed the P4 for RDRAM and it looks like they've finally come up with a cost-effective alternative. Wonder how it would do with my favorite WinZip/UT benchmark... if you get an 865 or 875 board, run that benchmark for me, ok?

 

[azkiwi]

Originally posted by: orion7144


Has anybody seen AMD's earnings for this quarter. Another huge loss and Intel is putting pricing pressure on by reducing their CPU prices and analyst's are betting on Intel significantly reducing flash prices which would hurt AMD even worse.

Yes but they beat expectations and their stock rose. They may be turning a corner here... Opteron and the 64 could return them to profitablility and be a big setback for Intel. All depends if they can run legacy software without major problems. I guess we'll all know soon...

 

[Megatomic]

Well I guess my jealousy over the i875/865 platforms has died down a bit in the past few days. The benchmarks for the new boards/CPUs show a dramatic lead over the current Intel and AMD systems but I feel that if an AMD CPU were clocked at the same speed as the Intel 3.06GHz chip or even just a few hundred MHz faster things would be very different right now.

I've been playing a lot of games over the past few days (ever since I got my 2 x 512MB HyperX sticks running in DCDDR mode) and this system is now even more solid than it was before, especially when exiting UT2003. Aside from a video card upgrade later this year, I don't think there's anything in my system right now that I will want to upgrade for at least a year.

And yet I still hope to be wowed by AMD when I go to the AMD Tech Tour 2003 event in June. AMD does need a big platform upgrade and the Hammer has to shine.

 

[floccus]

All depends if they can run legacy software without major problems.

The real questions with the Opteron and Athlon 64s are whether developers will code in 64bits. If major software distributions such as Windows, Office, a few games, and some other programs are released in 64bit format, then yay for AMD. However, if all that is available for the cpu's to work with is 32bit, then they won't see the result they were hoping for. High end server ware will undoubtedly be released in 64bit versions, but that doesn't help joe blow computer user so that means AMD loses.

AMD is taking perhaps the biggest risk ever. They're staking their future on people creating code for 64bit processing. If that doesn't happen, then bye bye AMD. If it does, then Intel will have to make a major move. Either way, give AMD credit, cause its leaps of faith like this that move technology forward.

 

[MARMADUKE]

I just bought my 2nd nforce2 8RdA+ with new C1 stepping! CRUSH1-NB & A4-SB combination it is on sale @ egg $94 because the 8rda3 is coming in!

Some of these 8rda's are doing 243 fsb right out of the box without any mods? now you can pick up a tbred 1700+-B @ 2.2Ghz? for $58 to go with this. Total= $152

Now you take the same amount of money and get a intel mobo and cpu and do your mods( tune up your engine!) and I will do mine!

I will add heatsinks active & passive and also do a VDD solder mod and be ready for action @ 250 FSB cause that is as high as the bios will let me go! ( I need new bios that goes up to 300fsb??)
WOW>>> is AMD FUNNNN or what!

Now I dont care what intel mobo and cpu combo you got for $152!, cause I know my rig will really! really! HURT you and BURY you, infact I will give you $200 for your combo and still do a JASON on you!

Canterwood/P4 875 combo?
Gigabyte expects their 8KNXP Ultra to find its way into the U.S. retail channel by the end of April or beginning of May for $385 then add a CPU?.who in there right mind would buy this combo knowing that MY 8RDA+ @ 250 FSB can outperform this combo!...hmmm... Jim Carrey? LMAO

I see something very big coming? the new CRUSH1 & A4 combination does not even get warm when overclocked( I think it can do 400FSB!), need new bios? and this would certainly CRUSH the P4 875

AMD RULES!:beer:

 

[DieHardware]

Originally posted by: MARMADUKE
I just bought my 2nd nforce2 8RdA+ with new C1 stepping! CRUSH1-NB & A4-SB combination it is on sale @ egg $94 because the 8rda3 is coming in!

Some of these 8rda's are doing 243 fsb right out of the box without any mods? now you can pick up a tbred 1700+-B @ 2.2Ghz? for $58 to go with this. Total= $152

Now you take the same amount of money and get a intel mobo and cpu and do your mods( tune up your engine!) and I will do mine!

I will add heatsinks active & passive and also do a VDD solder mod and be ready for action @ 250 FSB cause that is as high as the bios will let me go! ( I need new bios that goes up to 300fsb??)
WOW>>> is AMD FUNNNN or what!

Now I dont care what intel mobo and cpu combo you got for $152!, cause I know my rig will really! really! HURT you and BURY you, infact I will give you $200 for your combo and still do a JASON on you!

Canterwood/P4 875 combo?
Gigabyte expects their 8KNXP Ultra to find its way into the U.S. retail channel by the end of April or beginning of May for $385 then add a CPU?.who in there right mind would buy this combo knowing that MY 8RDA+ @ 250 FSB can outperform this combo!...hmmm... Jim Carrey? LMAO

I see something very big coming? the new CRUSH1 & A4 combination does not even get warm when overclocked( I think it can do 400FSB!), need new bios? and this would certainly CRUSH the P4 875

AMD RULES!:beer:

Quit sitting on the fence and give us your opinion!

 

[qquizz]

I got my 1700 at newegg, but maybe it was luck of the draw that I got good OC'er
Got retail version

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: DieHardware

Quit sitting on the fence and give us your opinion!

Hehehe

 

[Cerb]

The real questions with the Opteron and Athlon 64s are whether developers will code in 64bits. If major software distributions such as Windows, Office, a few games, and some other programs are released in 64bit format, then yay for AMD.

The OS is one the way already. Some games are getting there (UT2k3?), and best of all, there is no need for such things as Office to be made for it. Full backward-compatibility, though IIRC, they are limited to 4GB per CPU.

However, if all that is available for the cpu's to work with is 32bit, then they won't see the result they were hoping for. High end server ware will undoubtedly be released in 64bit versions, but that doesn't help joe blow computer user so that means AMD loses.

No. They are mainly going after the servers, and the money is quite good there. Not to mention with several Linux distros out already (Mandrake, for one, and Redhat and SuSe I know are both still wokring on the server parts) for it, they are basically set for the low/mid servers. If the performance shown of the slowest of the low-end Hammers is any indication (and Xbit didn't use Winstone, nor enough gaming benches), they just need to be fixed up and released.

AMD is taking perhaps the biggest risk ever.

Possibly. Though you could have said that with the first K7, too.

They're staking their future on people creating code for 64bit processing.

Long-term? Yes. Short-term? No. For the short-run, the new chips are no different than any other IA32 one. They can't afford to do it in any other way.

If that doesn't happen, then bye bye AMD.

I doubt it. They might be put down to value only again, but the way they've survived so far...nah. They'll make it, for good or ill.

If it does, then Intel will have to make a major move.

They may already be, but even if not, they probably have a couple years to make it. Your average middle-management guy knows Xeon = good. That's about it. They may have used the circumstances they are in to their advantage, but it is still an uphill battle.

Either way, give AMD credit, cause its leaps of faith like this that move technology forward.

...or do nothing.

 

[MARMADUKE]

Hey..
I even bought a 8 pound AMD Ham for Easter with A1 stepping!
Then I cooked it in my AMD ( VDD MOD) microwave 40WATTS@300WATTS= done in 3 mins

 

[cheapgoose]

Originally posted by: touchmyichi
For 200 bucks for amd you get a epox nforce 2 mobo, an athlon 1700+, and 256 of ddr 400 ram. With that setup, you're talking about hitting speeds of up to 2.5ghz, easily outclassing any p4 sold at many times the price and you get to enjoy sound blaster quality audio. AMD just has such great deals.

let's also add another few bucks for some good cooling. don't think your avg. cooling can give you that big of an oc, at least not at a temp you'd be happy with.

 

[RedRonin]

A very good thread! There are a lot of excellent responses here, which point to one's intended use of a platform as a clue as to which is best for the individual. I'll answer the question in the topic line with a simple, "No". I haven't felt jealous about the speed of Intel processors as compared to AMD. Like others here, I am looking for price perfomance ratio. Those who are overclocking can find much more benefit than most, that's for sure. But for me, the plain old retail prices of components is enough for me to go with AMD. I too want to encourage competition, to keep it as healthy as possible. This is another reason why I am inclined to support "The Underdog" that is AMD.

I compare this to the perception of cars. What about the notion that "...every Ferrari can do 200 MPH..." for instance? People who know cars realize that is a rarity for any vehicle, no matter how exotic. If you have two cars that can each do 180 MPH as a top speed, does it matter how they do it if that is your only goal? There is a difference between value and worth. If a Ferrari and a Corvette each have 300 HP engines and each have a top speed of 180 MPH, which do you buy? If you have the cash to pay for the pit crew, you get the Ferrari. My point is that the Ferrari may have a smaller engine, but a higher peak rev limit. That doesn't change the fact that the work its engine does is equivalent to that of the Corvette. Meanwhile the Corvette may cost a third as much. For some it is "worth it" to buy a top-line Pentium 4 processor. That does not mean the value of an Athlon XP processor is thereby non-existent and worthless.

I believe there are some low-end benchmarks that show the Duron 1300 is not outclassed by Celeron 2.0 MHz machines. Knowing that I can put together a couple of Duron 1300 + M7VIG Pro or K7VMM+ systems to meet the needs of friends/family for the price of a single eMachines or HP Wal*Mart special is pretty rewarding. Once more, I'm not really into overclocking, but it is rather tempting considering what folks have been able to manage with AMD Athlon XP 1700+ chips. So similarly, I would rather build two AMD Athlon XP 2200+ machines than waste all my dough on a single high-end Intel setup. Who cares if it takes a few seconds or minutes longer to rip a DVD, encode to MPEG1 or whatever? Not me - I can be using the second computer while that is being done on the first.

HUN-YA!

Red Ronin