Question Has the consumer gaming GPU technology timeline lost it's way? Where are the AFFORDABLE 16GB VRAM cards to choose from?

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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,446
10,114
126

Some possible hope for prices to come down.

Right now just seems like a bad time to buy. Lucky me that I've got a couple of 5900X CPU rigs with 64GB of DDR4-3200 in them, that need decent GPUs (at least, one of them does), to become my "main rig" to get back into some slight gaming.

I have a couple of 4K UHD TVs using as monitors over HDMI2.0 @ 60FPS. No real HDR to speak of.

Was thinking about a RX 6800 / 6800 XT, but I still can't stomach paying $600 for one. Maybe $300-350.

WTF prices are still like mining is a thing, is beyond me. RTX 4090 IS profitable to mine with, if you don't mind an ROI of like 10 years.
 

Hans Gruber

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 2006
2,214
1,153
136
AMD has this golden opportunity to seize the day. I do not know why they have not dropped the pricing for 7900xt GPU's to somewhere around $500. 6800 for $300 and 6800xt for $350.

Or why Intel has not dropped the price on the ARC A770 to $200-250. Things like direct pricing from Intel or a coupon for $50-100 off future Battlemage GPU's. Those types of deals. That's called marketing. An advertising budget would not be needed. It costs money to gain market share for Intel. Even if they made nothing. An embedded base of Intel GPU users would pave the way for Battlemage. The first cards from a new entry into the GPU segment are the growing pains. After the first generation of cards, it gets much easier.

To some of you, this may sound crazy. The computer market is in the dumper.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
Ray tracing has been the killer app marketed by Nvidia since the 20 series launch. They emphasised this by changing the name from GTX to RTX. That makes the condition of testing without RT nothing short of comical.
I don't see why. Not every game uses RT. While their marketing wants to push RT does not mean it is an essential part of the experiance. I have never once played a game with RT, and my guess is that most other people have not either since only a small handful of cards can handle it.
The number of people that have $1000 videocards is vanishingly small.
But nevermind all that stuff about ray tracing everyone. In order to not create conditions where the card runs out of VRAM, we should test without the very feature that has been shoved down our throats for the last 5yrs. The foundation upon which Nvidia has based its present gaming technology and marketing strategy. The main talking point used in internet discussions to promote the brand. Seems legit.
I don't care if you test with it on or off, but you can't test it one way and then makes claims about the other.
 
Reactions: USER8000

Rigg

Senior member
May 6, 2020
475
1,004
136
MLID had Steve (HWUB) on the Broken Silicon podcast a few weeks ago. I happened to listen to it yesterday and took an interesting tidbit away from it. Apparently Steve communicated to AMD how the 7900 xt review was going to go before he published it and they were taken aback by his opinion that the 7900 xt was a $700 card. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that the marketing department that brought you $300/$400 6/8 core Zen 4 launch prices that were cut a month later is this out of touch. It seems like they think they are playing 4D chess with their PSYOP pricing structure. I think they're alienating potential customers with these fantasy land MSRP's even if they do quickly adjust the pricing to what the market dictates. Bad launch day reviews because of questionable MSRP pricing cripples these products.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,794
21,529
146
I don't see why. Not every game uses RT. While their marketing wants to push RT does not mean it is an essential part of the experiance. I have never once played a game with RT, and my guess is that most other people have not either since only a small handful of cards can handle it.
The number of people that have $1000 videocards is vanishingly small.

I don't care if you test with it on or off, but you can't test it one way and then makes claims about the other.
I mostly agree with what you wrote, and feel the same way. But I think you missed the point of the testing, and why it was done.

Major tech sites have conducted polls. They all have similar results. Less than 20% of respondents care about RT. Even less actively used it within a week of the survey. Which agrees with both of our sentiments. I have little use for RT beyond reflections. That is, if I play a game like cyberpunk'd or Spiderman that offers the feature.

Now, the reason for the testing is that it is intended as consumer advocacy. Letting their readers and viewers know that despite Nvidia GPUs having the fastest hardware ray tracing each generation, that buying a card lacking a sufficient amount of VRAM can potentially make the feature basically useless. This can help keep shoppers from choosing a card in their price range, that is the most likely to age poorly. That isn't just applicable to RT either. Even without it, games are using more VRAM.

The other factor, is that with high quality assets comprised of a lot of data, the games look better. And we get the presentation the devs intended. The kicker is that there is very little performance penalty for such a major visual element. All you need is a big enough frame buffer.

The rest of the discussion is just some of us pointing out that Nvidia's showcase tech being hampered by cheaping out on VRAM, is pretty damned rich.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,418
293
126
Hey this has filtered all the way down to the budget cards. I remember being able to pay $35 ~ $45 for a budget card that far exceeded the 3D performance of any IGP, and also had superior video decoding support. Now you have to shell-out $100 for a lowly GF 1030 that is a generation (or two) behind the hardware-assisted video decoding and encoding support of AMD and Intel's 'almost free' integrated solutions.
 

Rigg

Senior member
May 6, 2020
475
1,004
136
AMD has this golden opportunity to seize the day. I do not know why they have not dropped the pricing for 7900xt GPU's to somewhere around $500. 6800 for $300 and 6800xt for $350.

Or why Intel has not dropped the price on the ARC A770 to $200-250. Things like direct pricing from Intel or a coupon for $50-100 off future Battlemage GPU's. Those types of deals. That's called marketing. An advertising budget would not be needed. It costs money to gain market share for Intel. Even if they made nothing. An embedded base of Intel GPU users would pave the way for Battlemage. The first cards from a new entry into the GPU segment are the growing pains. After the first generation of cards, it gets much easier.

To some of you, this may sound crazy. The computer market is in the dumper.
I'd love to see those kind of prices on those SKU's but I don't think it's realistic. While it might not be crazy to say that this is probably close to where the market is (or is soon headed) for these products to sell in large quantity, it's just not feasible to sell them at those prices IMO. I think the BOM's are too expensive for these cards to be sold at those prices. Look up the die sizes on the SKU's you listed. They're huge. I think they'll just delay launching new cards in this performance tier as long as possible to avoid blowing these cards out for little or no profit. It looks like they need some time to sort out issues with RDNA 3 anyway.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,384
12,803
136
Apparently Steve communicated to AMD how the 7900 xt review was going to go before he published it and they were taken aback by his opinion that the 7900 xt was a $700 card. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that the marketing department that brought you $300/$400 6/8 core Zen 4 launch prices that were cut a month later is this out of touch. It seems like they think they are playing 4D chess with their PSYOP pricing structure.
In a way, even this forum was out of touch with the gaming market. The prevailing opinion on this forum was that the price tricks were working and the market was warming up to the new pricing structure, even in the current economic environment. Most of us did not really believe the market was going to say NO.
 
Reactions: Tlh97 and Rigg

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
I mostly agree with what you wrote, and feel the same way. But I think you missed the point of the testing, and why it was done.

Major tech sites have conducted polls. They all have similar results. Less than 20% of respondents care about RT. Even less actively used it within a week of the survey. Which agrees with both of our sentiments. I have little use for RT beyond reflections. That is, if I play a game like cyberpunk'd or Spiderman that offers the feature.

Now, the reason for the testing is that it is intended as consumer advocacy. Letting their readers and viewers know that despite Nvidia GPUs having the fastest hardware ray tracing each generation, that buying a card lacking a sufficient amount of VRAM can potentially make the feature basically useless. This can help keep shoppers from choosing a card in their price range, that is the most likely to age poorly. That isn't just applicable to RT either. Even without it, games are using more VRAM.

The other factor, is that with high quality assets comprised of a lot of data, the games look better. And we get the presentation the devs intended. The kicker is that there is very little performance penalty for such a major visual element. All you need is a big enough frame buffer.

The rest of the discussion is just some of us pointing out that Nvidia's showcase tech being hampered by cheaping out on VRAM, is pretty damned rich.
Okay, I'll agree with that. My argument was perhaps pedantic.
 

Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
2,407
1,305
136
In a way, even this forum was out of touch with the gaming market. The prevailing opinion on this forum was that the price tricks were working and the market was warming up to the new pricing structure, even in the current economic environment. Most of us did not really believe the market was going to say NO.

True. The main excuse I have for that is simply the craziness of crypto in the last 3 years combined with marketing mumbo jumbo pushing the fear of missing out effect.
 

Rigg

Senior member
May 6, 2020
475
1,004
136
In a way, even this forum was out of touch with the gaming market. The prevailing opinion on this forum was that the price tricks were working and the market was warming up to the new pricing structure, even in the current economic environment. Most of us did not really believe the market was going to say NO.
True. The main excuse I have for that is simply the craziness of crypto in the last 3 years combined with marketing mumbo jumbo pushing the fear of missing out effect.
You guys aren't wrong but i still think AMD sales & marketing should have been on top of this. Irrespective of the unprecedented weirdness that plagued the GPU market (and markets generally) during the last product cycle they clearly failed to read the room on the 7000 launch. Heads should be rolling for these repeated marketing blunders.

They made made 2 good SKU's that are solid direct competitors to the 4080 and 4070 ti. They could have easily marketed them as the 7900xt/7800xt (7800/7700 xt might have been even better) for $1000/$700-$750 and they would have both received generally favorable reviews and customer reception. Instead they did this bizarre 7900 xtx/xt rebranding where they undercut the competition's price for one SKU and overshot the other. The products are named like they should perform better than they do not only compared to Nvidia, but also relative to each other. It's no surprise why one of these SKU's is sitting on shelves while the other fly's off of them. I'm not giving them a pass for this debacle.
 
Last edited:

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,828
5,442
136
They made made 2 good SKU's that are solid direct competitors to the 4080 and 4070 ti. They could have easily marketed them as the 7900xt/7800xt (7800/7700 xt might have been even better) for $1000/$700-$750 and they would have both received generally favorable reviews and customer reception.

If they did that, nobody would have bought the XTX and AMD wouldn't be that thrilled with the margins on the XT. Not to mention put downward pressure sooner on RDNA 2, which is selling but not fast enough. And the XTX isn't selling that great but yes far better than the XT.
 

Rigg

Senior member
May 6, 2020
475
1,004
136
If they did that, nobody would have bought the XTX and AMD wouldn't be that thrilled with the margins on the XT. Not to mention put downward pressure sooner on RDNA 2, which is selling but not fast enough. And the XTX isn't selling that great but yes far better than the XT.
MSRP for the 6900 XT was $1000 while 6800 XT was $650 so I'm not convinced that argument holds water. Downward pressure on their previous gen top tier GPU's is inevitable. If they don't do it Nvidia will. I can drive to Micro Center right now and buy a 7900 XT for $780. Not much of stretch from $700-$750.
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,828
5,442
136
I can drive to Micro Center right now and buy a 7900 XT for $780. Not much of stretch from $700-$750.

I didn't say it was going to work. But it was worth a shot to see if it would. And the failure is probably why N32 ends up being cancelled.
 
Last edited:

Rigg

Senior member
May 6, 2020
475
1,004
136
I didn't say it was going to work. But it was worth a shot to see if it would. And the failure is probably why N32 ends up being cancelled.
Is there a credible leak going around saying N32 might get canceled that I missed? Is this just speculation?
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,828
5,442
136
Is there a credible leak going around saying N32 might get canceled that I missed? Is this just speculation?

Just speculation. But between the 7900 XT not selling and that there still appears to be a lot of unsold RDNA 2, it doesn't seem like it'd be worthwhile to bother.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,262
5,257
136
Just speculation. But between the 7900 XT not selling and that there still appears to be a lot of unsold RDNA 2, it doesn't seem like it'd be worthwhile to bother.

Maybe the naming is a clue, that by launch time they had decided on this route, to only launch higher end 7000 discrete cards.

Which is not an unreasonable strategy. AMD often did things like this. Vega 64/56 comes to mind.

If RDNA 3 doesn't really offer much more than RDNA 2, so a strategy of only doing new top end and just sliding the rest of the line down makes a lot of sense.

Maybe doing that means they can focus on getting RDNA 4 out sooner.

I see a lot of potential for a big RDNA 4 leap, that RDNA 3 obviously isn't.

RDNA 4 will probably be on 3nm, will probably have dedicated AI units (Phoenix does), and could potentially leverage Xilinx Media encoders to leap ahead of NVidia/Intel.
 
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