Haswell 4770 vs. 4770k

[damageboy]

Hi,
Here, in Intel's own coparison:
http://ark.intel.com/compare/75123,75122

You can see that while the K is 0.1 Ghz faster,
it's missing:
vPro
VT-d
Trusted Execution
TSX-NI

Is this real?
Seems very weird...

Can anyone comment on this?

 

[LagunaX]

Not weird.
One is geared towards overclocking enthusiasts that don't give a damn about virtualization other than older XP emulation.
The other towards smaller home systems and networks that aren't necessarily in the Xeon business class, where virtual computing comes into play.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

They should have kept TSX on the K SKUs.
Wonder how much that will set back its adoption, although to be fair, the exclusion of the K SKUs is nothing compared to the amount of legacy parts in the wild w/o TSX.

 

[grimpr]

I'd take the non K any time, full featured chips compared to the crippled K, overclocking with K brings you only more heat, costs and pain since the chip is a blast furnace to cool it in costrast to the superb Sandy Bridge.

 

[Remobz]

I'd take the non K any time, full featured chips compared to the crippled K, overclocking with K brings you only more heat, costs and pain since the chip is a blast furnace to cool it in costrast to the superb Sandy Bridge.

Besides overclocking I always thought the k versions were far superior?

 

[grimpr]

Besides overclocking I always thought the k versions were far superior?

Superior to what? materials, features, craftmanship or perceived thought of value? As of Haswell the Ks are crippled chips on purprose by Intel missing 4! whole features that come standard on the cpu, worthy or not i prefer to have a fully featured chip than a crippled one, this will only get worse in the future.

 

[R0H1T]

Besides overclocking I always thought the k versions were far superior?

You mean the non K ones

 

[damageboy]

Thanks for the comments so far...

I just wanted to make sure I'm not seeing some gross intel error on their website or something. It appears I'm not imagining.

Now, as for the 4770 non-K overclockability...
I obviously assume it's not as nice, but is it completely crippled, or should I still be able
to get some OC from my 4770 (the one I'm planning to actually get)....

 

[T_Yamamoto]

You can overclock a little, like 200 MHz.

 

[Edrick]

I just purchased the 4770 non-K version for the only reason I wanted TSX (I am a developer).

 

[Edrick]

Now, as for the 4770 non-K overclockability...
I obviously assume it's not as nice, but is it completely crippled, or should I still be able
to get some OC from my 4770 (the one I'm planning to actually get)....

Previous non-K models, you could overclock 4 steps (400mhz) above max turbo. I have the 3820 and I can get it to 4.3-4.1 (4 cores).

However, I read that Haswell non K is locked down even more, but I have not seen proof. I will be getting mine in the mail tomorrow and I will update you. (unless someone beats me to it).

 

[Kallogan]

4770K is meant for overcloking but can't reach more than 4,5 ghz without starting a fire in your case and with almost exponential power consumption increase haha.

 

[R0H1T]

Previous non-K models, you could overclock 4 steps (400mhz) above max turbo. I have the 3820 and I can get it to 4.3-4.1 (4 cores).

However, I read that Haswell non K is locked down even more, but I have not seen proof. I will be getting mine in the mail tomorrow and I will update you. (unless someone beats me to it).

Yes I think that limit is 200 MHz now !

 

[NTMBK]

However, I read that Haswell non K is locked down even more, but I have not seen proof. I will be getting mine in the mail tomorrow and I will update you. (unless someone beats me to it).

You're buying a Haswell? Never would have called that :awe:

Seriously though, that'll be useful information for the forum. Cheers! :thumbsup:

 

[Edrick]

You're buying a Haswell? Never would have called that :awe:

Seriously though, that'll be useful information for the forum. Cheers! :thumbsup:

My vision of Haswell from 3 years ago was far different than the actual product. But as you know, I have been waiting for this for a long time.

I do a lot of coding and a lot of number crunching, FMA and TSX are the 2 biggest selling points to me. I could care less about OC ability. So still a big deal to me.

 

[SPBHM]

Previous non-K models, you could overclock 4 steps (400mhz) above max turbo. I have the 3820 and I can get it to 4.3-4.1 (4 cores).

However, I read that Haswell non K is locked down even more, but I have not seen proof. I will be getting mine in the mail tomorrow and I will update you. (unless someone beats me to it).

there is proof, more than one site found out it's 100% locked, only whatever you can get over BCLK 100 (around 5% OC).

Yes I think that limit is 200 MHz now !

you should be able to get 200MHz with BCLK OC, but it's not always possible...
for Ivy Bridge it was bclk + the 4x additional to turbo, so the potential was like 500+ MHz

 

[JAG87]

As a home user, I couldn't give a rat's ass about those features.

As a business/enterprise user, I would never overclock anything in the first place.

So this thread is useless.

 

[Edrick]

As a home user, I couldn't give a rat's ass about those features.

As a business/enterprise user, I would never overclock anything in the first place.

So this thread is useless.

Then why even come to these forums? Just to tell us it is useless to you? Fantastic.

 

[wasabiman123]

The thing I'm a bit fuzzy on is to what extent a OC'd 4770k at say 4.4~ghz would outperform the 4770 at stock for gaming. Power consumption and heat go up with an overclock, so does noise from cooling solutions. Would frame latency be a better indication of the value of an overclock?

 

[Edrick]

I doubt a 4770 at stock speed will bottleneck any GPU on the market today. I could be mistaken however.

 

[Concillian]

The thing I'm a bit fuzzy on is to what extent a OC'd 4770k at say 4.4~ghz would outperform the 4770 at stock for gaming. Power consumption and heat go up with an overclock, so does noise from cooling solutions. Would frame latency be a better indication of the value of an overclock?

In most games, at the graphical settings you'd normally play at, neither will significantly impact user experience.

Some games that are extremely CPU dependent will see an impact. Most however, are well over the threshold of perception at the point where a stock clocked 4770 will become a bottleneck.

The important distinguishment is to understand that any CPU will become a bottleneck at some point, but that it's okay if that bottleneck is above the level of user perception. Future games will be better at utilizing more cores, so a 4/8 4770 at stock could eventually outperform a 4/4 K series chip overclocked.

 

[wasabiman123]

In most games, at the graphical settings you'd normally play at, neither will significantly impact user experience.

Some games that are extremely CPU dependent will see an impact. Most however, are well over the threshold of perception at the point where a stock clocked 4770 will become a bottleneck.

The important distinguishment is to understand that any CPU will become a bottleneck at some point, but that it's okay if that bottleneck is above the level of user perception. Future games will be better at utilizing more cores, so a 4/8 4770 at stock could eventually outperform a 4/4 K series chip overclocked.

I've heard that the CPU being overclocked comes into play more so when gaming with a 120hz monitor, such as I am, it apparently becomes important to keep a frame latency needed for that sort of performance expectation. 8.3 frame latency for 120fps, while for 60fps it's 16.7.

 

[Concillian]

To some extent, but it still comes down to perception. In my own testing of myself, it takes a skip below 30FPS before it becomes very noticeable to my own eyes. I was okay with skipping a frame on a 60 Hz monitor, but two frames was very noticeable.

People are different, so particular thresholds are only valid for a given test subject. If this kind of thing is important to you, I suggest using FRAPS to check your own threshold in a game by underclocking your current CPU. See where you lie on the spectrum. I learned a whole lot when I did my own set of testing. The biggest thing I learned when I did my own testing was that I fully understood the concept of a game displaying perfectly... at least to a particular person.

 

[wasabiman123]

A completely stock 4770 might be noticeably slower in several games than a well OC'd K model. For gaming, the K model really makes more sense.

For general usage, the K model is worse. Basically, Intel wants people to buy multiple chips and are not afraid to mess with us to enforce that.

Are there any Arma 3/Planetside 2 benchmarks with Haswell yet? Those are cpu intensive right? Would love to see some numbers for that

 

[damageboy]

As a home user, I couldn't give a rat's ass about those features.

As a business/enterprise user, I would never overclock anything in the first place.

So this thread is useless.

Sorry you feel it is useless,
Much like @Edrick, I'm very interested in FMA + TSX specifically.
This build is for my home desktop, which is used 50%/50% for dev+work and for gaming.
I don't replace this machine that much (my current one is a i7-860!), so I do care a bit about OC as it gives me the ability to squeeze another year or so out of this setup.