Haswell 4770 vs. 4770k

[pm]

With the bus overclockability of Haswell, does the K version matter as much? In Anand's review he mentioned that you could run the FSB at 100, 125 and 166.6MHz.

Since my target with overclocking would be ~4.2-4.4GHz, then it seems to me that I don't need a "K" version. If the 4770 is 3.4GHz at 100MHz BCLK, then 125*34=4250MHz.

And, yeah, I ordered a 4770K today... and now I'm questioning it. I like to overclock - mostly because I think it's fun - but I do a lot virtual machines (I do development in multiple VM's and I do a lot of compilation).

 

[cytg111]

"The BCLK adjustment gives you a little more flexibility when overclocking, but you still need a K-SKU to take advantage of the options."
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7003/the-haswell-review-intel-core-i74770k-i54560k-tested/3

sry

 

[TridenT]

I'm probably getting the non-k version. The cost of having to get a fancier motherboard (At least $50 more), a new HSF (Another $30+)... Plus the extra cost of the K part itself ($20-$30?). That's a good $100+ premium to OC to 4.3-4.5Ghz and have your CPU run 75W hotter while losing virtualization features and the new instruction sets.

However, at this point, I'm wondering if the 4770 is worth it and whether I should just get a 4570 or 4670. I could use the $90 towards an SSD. The 4 extra threads sounds good for video encoding. I'm wondering if that makes a big difference in live streaming your system. (Justin.tv type of gaming streaming)

 

[CakeMonster]

The rule is still that the answer is "no" if you have to ask if you need an i7.

As for K vs non-K, yes the CPU is more expensive but I'm seeing very cheap Z87 boards and I can't see how there would be a $50 difference. Nor do you need a new HSF for moderate OC. And if you get a HSF they have tended to last for several generations which easily justify the cost.

 

[ilogik]

So is the consensus that the non K version is better for someone that will not overclock? For my needs I don't really see a need for OC'ing a chip, I just do some casual gaming and web browsing. I'm still on a i7 940 and things run very well, I'm only upgrading because my MOBO is dying.

Since I won't be overclocking which one of the new mobos with upgraded sound would you guys recommend?

 

[TridenT]

The rule is still that the answer is "no" if you have to ask if you need an i7.

As for K vs non-K, yes the CPU is more expensive but I'm seeing very cheap Z87 boards and I can't see how there would be a $50 difference. Nor do you need a new HSF for moderate OC. And if you get a HSF they have tended to last for several generations which easily justify the cost.

I thought K CPUs didn't come with HSFs anyway? Pretty sure you have to get new mounting brackets for some of them. I don't think the one I am using on LGA 775 works for 1150.

Motherboards for Haswell can go for $65 right now. If you want Z87 then you have to bump it up $50, and that's for the really low end ones which are questionable overclockers IMO.

So is the consensus that the non K version is better for someone that will not overclock? For my needs I don't really see a need for OC'ing a chip, I just do some casual gaming and web browsing. I'm still on a i7 940 and things run very well, I'm only upgrading because my MOBO is dying.

Since I won't be overclocking which one of the new mobos with upgraded sound would you guys recommend?

Get a cheap mobo and buy a sound card.

 

[ilogik]

Hmm didn't think about a stand alone sound card, thanks!

( oh and looking at your sig, I'm the original feminist. I believe in womens equal rights, like an equal right to pick up that heavy box of printer paper, equal right to put the bottle of water on the watercooler and so on ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) )

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

I thought K CPUs didn't come with HSFs anyway? Pretty sure you have to get new mounting brackets for some of them. I don't think the one I am using on LGA 775 works for 1150.

Wat? :blink:

 

[TridenT]

Wat? :blink:

Idk, I read some time ago that K cpus didn't come with HSFs. It didn't make any sense to me, but whatever.

 

[damageboy]

With the bus overclockability of Haswell, does the K version matter as much? In Anand's review he mentioned that you could run the FSB at 100, 125 and 166.6MHz.

Since my target with overclocking would be ~4.2-4.4GHz, then it seems to me that I don't need a "K" version. If the 4770 is 3.4GHz at 100MHz BCLK, then 125*34=4250MHz.

And, yeah, I ordered a 4770K today... and now I'm questioning it. I like to overclock - mostly because I think it's fun - but I do a lot virtual machines (I do development in multiple VM's and I do a lot of compilation).

Just to avoid mis-conceptions.
the K variant is missing VT-d, not VT-x.
VT-d is used for more efficient I/O + Direct H/W Access.
I doubt that standard virtualization products for desktops use it much.

 

[NTMBK]

Idk, I read some time ago that K cpus didn't come with HSFs. It didn't make any sense to me, but whatever.

I think that's just the LGA2011 "Sandy Bridge E" chips, not the mainstream Ks.

 

[JimmiG]

So is the consensus that the non K version is better for someone that will not overclock? For my needs I don't really see a need for OC'ing a chip, I just do some casual gaming and web browsing. I'm still on a i7 940 and things run very well, I'm only upgrading because my MOBO is dying.

For your needs, it really doesn't matter. You won't be using any of the features of the non-K version, nor any of the overclocking features of the K-version. The non-K version is slightly cheaper, but runs at 100 MHz less.

I agree it's a strange decision by Intel to disable those features on the K-version. I honestly don't understand what they're trying to achieve...Do the expect the tiny number of people that need both sets of features to build two separate rigs?

 

[SPBHM]

Idk, I read some time ago that K cpus didn't come with HSFs. It didn't make any sense to me, but whatever.

maybe it was the case for the 875k/655k, but Sandy Bridge and newer K CPUs comes with the Intel HSF (apart from LGA 2011),

For your needs, it really doesn't matter. You won't be using any of the features of the non-K version, nor any of the overclocking features of the K-version. The non-K version is slightly cheaper, but runs at 100 MHz less.

I agree it's a strange decision by Intel to disable those features on the K-version. I honestly don't understand what they're trying to achieve...Do the expect the tiny number of people that need both sets of features to build two separate rigs?

perhaps they think the average K buyer ("overclock enthusiast or gamer") upgrades all the time anyway,
but someone who needs those features with an overclock could use the same CPU for a longer period than they will limited to 3.4GHz or whatever (also less need for "haswell-e" or something).

 

[Borealis7]

you could get a non-K and up the turbo 4 bins to 3.9 on all cores and 4.3 on a single core (maybe even 4.3 on all cores like ASUS did with some boards).
4.3 is in the middle of the OC range as far as i can tell so not a big loss over getting a K model.

 

[SPBHM]

you could get a non-K and up the turbo 4 bins to 3.9 on all cores and 4.3 on a single core (maybe even 4.3 on all cores like ASUS did with some boards).
4.3 is in the middle of the OC range as far as i can tell so not a big loss over getting a K model.

to bad they removed this option for Haswell,
Haswell i5/i7 non K overclocking works like Ivy Bridge i3 overcloking, almost nothing (only around 5% from what you can get over 100MHz BCLK, without any of the dividers for higher clock available for K Haswell)

 

[cytg111]

Hi,
Here, in Intel's own coparison:
http://ark.intel.com/compare/75123,75122

You can see that while the K is 0.1 Ghz faster,
it's missing:
vPro
VT-d
Trusted Execution
TSX-NI

Is this real?
Seems very weird...

Can anyone comment on this?

I am almost left with more questions now than before the launch .. picking a K or not .. I think I will wait a few months more until the full picture emerges. I'd really like TSX to play around with too.. and 3.4, 3.9 turbo vs. a maybe 4.5 overclock on the K ? I am leaning towards the non K and do the 105 BCLK for a little extra (that would be 3.6, 4.1 turbo). But I really cant decide right now.

 

[Remobz]

Are there any online reviews of the 4770 non K versions?

We need reviews to better help us make up our minds.

Or anyone here who owns the non K version can do a mini review as well.

 

[Lepton87]

The progress on the desktop has almost stopped for OCers unwilling to say goodbye to their warranties and get their hand dirty with all this de-liding stuff. It goes like this for good chips:
5GHz SB, 4.7GHz IB, 4.5GHz HW. Yeah, HW will be the fastest but the margin is low and you can actually get more performance from a good IVY then a bad HW. 4.8GHz vs 4.3GHz HW

 

[WhiteKnight]

I don't plan on OCing and will use my PC for general office/internet purpose as well as occasional engineering applications and data analysis like MATLAB, Solidworks, etc. Am I better off with the non-K versions? What if the non-K is $20-$30 more expensive at the moment?

 

[Hulk]

Until we have more overclocking information I'm going to wait to decide if I'm going with the K or non-K. I'm not so concerned about the reviews on overclocking Haswell, but more what people around here are actually going to achieve.

I'm wondering:
What can the K do on stock volts?
What will the average chip do at modest voltge (<1.3V) and temperature (<60 loaded).

If we're talking about 200-300MHz before the volts/temps start to go nuts then I might actually go with the non-K. But if I can get 400-500MHz with good voltage/temps then I'll go for the K.

 

[grimpr]

I don't plan on OCing and will use my PC for general office/internet purpose as well as occasional engineering applications and data analysis like MATLAB, Solidworks, etc. Am I better off with the non-K versions? What if the non-K is $20-$30 more expensive at the moment?

Get the 65W TDP 4770S, fully featured and cooler chip.

http://ark.intel.com/compare/75122,75124

 

[Ken g6]

I'm a developer too, but I've been planning to get the 4770k without TSX. I'm generally much more interested in AVX2, with some interest in FMA.

What makes TSX so appealing to the other developers in this thread? Do you all use threads that much? What benefit does TSX give you, exactly? And which languages support it?

 

[Remobz]

I'm a developer too, but I've been planning to get the 4770k without TSX. I'm generally much more interested in AVX2, with some interest in FMA.

What makes TSX so appealing to the other developers in this thread? Do you all use threads that much? What benefit does TSX give you, exactly? And which languages support it?

By the mere fact that I have no clue what you are talking about means that the non K version is useless to me and might as well get the 4770k version IF I decide on buying Haswell in the first place.